Japan is introducing Poland/Hungary esque marriage/family incentives...

[Outcast9428]

Hallelujah, one of my greatest political wishes is coming true... Japan wants to implement policies reminiscent of what Poland's government is doing and give monthly allowances per child that married couples have. Japan is going to offer $300 a month per child until they are 4 years old, then $200 a month up until high school, and then $50 a month until they graduate high school.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2023/ ... e-decline/

The new prime minister, Kishida, sounds like Viktor Orban. Talking about wanting to create a "children first economy and society." and saying “We will consider how society as a whole can stably support children.”

https://efe.com/en/latest-news/japan-demographics/

If Japan really wants to increase their birth rate though, they should combine this policy with a tax hike placed on people who remain unmarried.

@Yohan and @MarcosZeitola

Thoughts?

[Outcast9428]

Japan should also note that while Hungary's marriage loans are very effective... Hungary also has these marriage loans in connection with a lot of pro-family propaganda strewn around the country. The sidewalks and airport in Hungary for example have signs like this that I took pictures of while I was there...







You need signs and little symbols everywhere in the country pushing people not only to have families, but to instill a "fear of missing out" feeling and make it seem like everybody is getting married and having families right now.

[Outcast9428]

@MarcosZeitola How in God's name does a country with 1.4 billion people only manage to have 10 million births in a year? That is seriously frightening.

Its weird how communist societies fluctuate dramatically towards having both the most anti-natalist policies in the world and also having some of the most extreme pro-natal policies in the world in other cases (although implemented in the most retarded way imaginable). Communist societies like the Soviet Union, North Korea, Cuba, and China under Mao Ze Dong required women to work the same jobs as men. Required women to go to college as well if they could. As well as the one child policy and in the case of the Soviet Union under Vladimir Lenin, making abortion as easily available as possible.

But then you had the Soviet Union in latter decades and suddenly, not only is abortion banned, but all forms of contraception are banned as well, the state is setting up state run orphanages and encouraging women to have kids out of wedlock and trying to eliminate the stigma on single motherhood. I think its because Communist regimes are just pathologically averse to following any kind of old wisdom. Effective pro-natalism would be to encourage people to get married, build a stable enough economy for them to own their own homes to raise children in, and invest highly in parenthood.

But nope, instead they tell their women to just run out and have kids with any dude walking around and the state will take care of their child.

Well the next four years are already decided for Orban. He won re-election just last year, and he can run for infinite terms, so he will definitely be in power until at least 2026. Even if he somehow gets voted out in 2026 though, the infrastructure he has put in place in Hungary is so solidified now that it will be extremely difficult for the liberals to dislodge. Apparently, Budapest is the last liberal pocket left in Hungary. Every other province in Hungary voted for Fidesz. Even Budapest, however, still voted for Fidesz at about 40% in the last election.

Having gone to Budapest, however, I can tell you that the majority of the city, by American standards is right-leaning. If the American Republican party was running in Budapest, it would definitely win. The people I talked to in Hungary weren't even Fidesz supporters. All of them were basically non-voters and yet all of them would be considered right-leaning by American standards. My tour guide would be considered hardcore right-wing and he still didn't vote for Orban simply because he didn't like how Orban spends the country's money.

I do think there's still hope for Japan. The situation was starting to look bad but it is promising to see that they are taking it more seriously then I thought they were. I think if Hungary can do it, then Japan definitely can. What Orban did in Hungary is truly amazing because Hungary, historically, is not a very conservative society. They were communist up until the 90s and the Soviet Union strongly incentivized abortion and tried to destroy religious belief in Hungary. In the 70s, Hungary had 190,000 abortions. Even as recently as 2011, only 55% of Hungarians considered themselves to be Christian and the fertility rate was just as low as Japan's at 1.3 per woman. Now, 80% of Hungary is Christian, in 2020 they had reduced the number of abortions in the country to 24,000, and the fertility rate has risen to 1.6 per woman.

Japan on the other hand, has deeply conservative roots. Conservatism is basically fused into the Japanese psyche. They went 200 years in the Edo period without culturally changing at all. What other country can say they went 200 years without changing their culture at all? The only reason they did change was because America forced them to open their doors to the outside world. My dad and I were talking about it once and he mentioned how the French aristocracy during the 18th century had become very decadent and arrogant because of how much wealth and success they had had... And he mentioned that the Japanese, no matter how wealthy they got, never seemed to take it for granted like other nations have. They always seemed to worry that what they have could be lost if the next generation becomes foolish.

And ultimately, what fuels conservatism is loss anxiety. People who have conservative beliefs have larger amygdalas which regulate people's fear in many ways. People who have larger amygdalas are more likely to see certain situations and scenarios as dangerous. Liberals on the other hand, have a larger anterior cingulate cortex which makes people more afraid specifically of social exclusion and apparently also helps people cope with complex and conflicting information (lmao). Basically, conservatives are very anxious and afraid of losing what they've built. Whereas liberals are more obsessed with pursuing novel experiences and simply don't worry about the potential consequences... On the other hand though, they are much more afraid then conservatives are, of negative social stigmas. This could explain why some societies are so overwhelmingly conservative because if conservatism truly does dominate the culture then people with liberal brains will go along with conservatism out of fear of social exclusion... But not because they fear losing what they've built the same way that true conservatives are. It would be interesting to see if the Japanese have larger amygdalas then people from other countries but of course research like that is stigmatized these days

[Natural_Born_Cynic]

Japan is eyeballs in debt. Their Debt to GDP ratio is whooping 225.8%, much worst than America.
I don't think they can turn their country's economy around. They can print out more money and delay the inevitable.. but they will continue to
experience deflationary spiral and China is eating their lunch. It's good that they are trying to encourage Japanese people to have more family, but their children will not have good opportunities in Japan anyway because of it's outdated work culture, mediocre pay, close mindedness and lot of social pressures. All the smart Japanese people I know of have emigrated to the U.S because they can't stand the Japanese Bureaucracy, corporate culture, social culture, limited opportunities, etc. Japan is F*cked and so as South Korea. China will be F*cked also because of their mistake with their demographic policy back in the 1970's one child policy. It going to be bite them in the a$$.

[Cornfed]

You hear of these natalist policies from time to time, but it always seems to be chipping away and the edges and not addressing the roots of the problem, which would of course require the destruction of the Globo-homo system. When I was in Korea over a decade ago they were trying to encourage people to have children, particularly girls, and nothing came of it.

[Natural_Born_Cynic]

You hear of these natalist policies from time to time, but it always seems to be chipping away and the edges and not addressing the roots of the problem, which would of course require the destruction of the Globo-homo system. When I was in Korea over a decade ago there were trying to encourage people to have children, particularly girls, and nothing came of it.

They can push their Natalist Policies all they want, but the fundamental problem is the ECONOMY and bleak outlook of the future!
What is the use of having kids and educating them when the economy sucks and the future doesn't look bright? South Korea's economic conditions doesn't look good at all. Nothing have changed from decades ago and the wealth of the country is keep being siphoned by the elites.. but no distribution back to the people.

Japan is eyeballs in debt.. how the hell they expect to pay for their program? And Japan is similar to South Korea in lack of job opportunities, repressive social culture, repressive work culture, men and women turning into herbivores or hikkikomoris, etc. Japan was good in the 80's but
they are all washed out now and now former shell of themselves.

[Outcast9428]

@Cornfed @Natural_Born_Cynic I’m sorry but I think people are just whiny. We live in the wealthiest nations ever to exist in human history but people are complaining that the economy is not good enough to have kids in and the future looks too bleak? How you think somebody in Nigeria feels about the economy and future of their country? People think Japan’s work culture today is bad, well the average person in the 1800s was working 12 hours a day, six days out of the week just to keep a roof over his head and food on the table.

But people today can’t handle working 8 hours in a heated and air conditioned, cushy office job with paid vacation time for five days out of the week and don’t want a wife and kids anymore because their job doesn’t pay enough to give them a 4 bedroom house with $1,000 or some dollars left over at the end of the month for buying whatever they want with? I mean c’mon, what does it take for modern people to feel comfortable having kids? It’s like the stars have to be absolutely perfectly aligned or people say it’s not the right time. This is pathetic. Modern people are absolutely pathetic creatures. If the government started saying they’d give me $200-$300 a month per child I had I would consider that an incredible blessing. It’s a huge help and for people to just wave it off like it makes no difference is quite frankly absurd in my opinion.

Whether it actually solves the problem some or not remains to be seen. But quite frankly if this still doesn’t get people to get a spouse and have kids I think the only option is punitive measures. Start putting an 8% bachelor/bachelorette tax on people. People need to get off their asses and make something of themselves and stop whining about the stars not being perfectly aligned enough for them to have a family while their ancestors put 70 hours of work in every week to have a family (not saying that was a good thing, I’m just using the example to give a sense of perspective.)

[Cornfed]

@Cornfed @Natural_Born_Cynic I’m sorry but I think people are just whiny. We live in the wealthiest nations ever to exist in human history but people are complaining that the economy is not good enough to have kids in and the future looks too bleak? How you think somebody in Nigeria feels about the economy and future of their country? People think Japan’s work culture today is bad, well the average person in the 1800s was working 12 hours a day, six days out of the week just to keep a roof over his head and food on the table.

But people today can’t handle working 8 hours in a heated and air conditioned, cushy office job for five days out of the week and don’t want a wife and kids anymore because their job doesn’t pay enough to give them a 4 bedroom house with $1,000 or some dollars left over at the end of the month for buying whatever they want with? I mean c’mon, what does it take for modern people to feel comfortable having kids? It’s like the stars have to be absolutely perfectly aligned or people say it’s not the right time. This is pathetic. Modern people are absolutely pathetic creatures. If the government started saying they’d give me $200-$300 a month per child I had I would consider that an incredible blessing. It’s a huge help and for people to just wave it off like it makes no difference is quite frankly absurd in my opinion.

Whether it actually solves the problem some or not remains to be seen. But quite frankly if this still doesn’t get people to get a spouse and have kids I think the only option is punitive measures. People need to get off their asses and make something of themselves and stop whining about the stars not being perfectly aligned enough for them to have a family while their ancestors put 70 hours of work in every week to have a family (not saying that was a good thing, I’m just using the example to give a sense of perspective.)

I presume you're vax damaged. Maybe if you keep taking booster shots, they will undo the damage of the previous shots.

[Outcast9428]

@Cornfed I didn’t take any vaccine… I’m just dumbfounded by this suggestion that things need to look like an absolute utopia where we don’t have to work more then like 5 or 6 hours or so a day but still get to live in really nice houses and have plenty of money left over to be consumerists.

Some people are gonna have to make small sacrifices. Nobody today is forced to live in a one room shack and have everybody sleep in the same room while working 70 hours a week anymore. Thank God for that and be happy for every bit of good news we can find. You can hope for things to get better without being such a defeatist, Debby downer all the time about how terrible everything is.

[Outcast9428]

the way I see it, as long as you got a wife and kids, your life is pretty good. Things could always be better yes, but not getting married and having a family is the equivalent of committing suicide. People are going to throw all that away because they can’t make enough disposable income to buy cool toys all the time in addition to their wife and family? Any other era of history and people simply made due with what they had. Modern people can do the same thing. If you lack energy then maybe it’s because you have a nutritional deficiency, maybe you need more sunlight and exercise or maybe just change up your routine a bit. But I’m tired of all the excuses for giving up because things are not perfect. I would never accept a future with no wife and family. I wouldn’t accept that future no matter what.

[Natural_Born_Cynic]

@Outcast9428

Where did I say that society needs to be a "near perfect utopia" for people to have kids?
I am just saying that currently things are hard for most advanced Western and Eastern countries to keep their reproduction level on par with those of the developing ones.

Look, people in the pre-modern times had to have kids because infant mortality was high, more children meant more workers to tend the fields( The Agrarian Economy) and more people to fight in the army(They didn't have assault rifles and bombs back then, so they have to bolster their numbers to fight with swords and horseback).

People in Nigeria and the third world have kids because their women have limited education, have tribal patriarchal culture, not a big powerful overarching federal government, and contraceptives are not widely available or condoned. Plus they don't have feminism, affirmative action, women receiving same education as men, and a big government to support and subsidize all that.

You said that first world countries are wealthy but guess what? Most of the wealth goes to the top elite oligarchy or corporate owners who controls the government and the masses get the scraps. You have to remember that even if you make a decent salary, most of it goes to rent, taxes, insurances, car, and basic necessaries. There is little left for savings. In addition, there are too many educated women entering the work force and all they expect of their men is make more money then them. It's called hypergamy. Also too many women in the work force depresses the wages for everyone. Moreover, the court system always favors the women and the men gets totally ripped off in divorce settings even if he has a prenup. prenup is just toilet paper.

I am not saying don't marry and have kids. I am just saying don't marry and have kids especially IN AMERICA and other Western countries. They are going to rip your balls off. Still if you want to marry and have kids here in America, then I don't really care. It's your life, but I have warned you.

[Cornfed]

@Cornfed I didn’t take any vaccine… I’m just dumbfounded by this suggestion that things need to look like an absolute utopia where we don’t have to work more then like 5 or 6 hours or so a day but still get to live in really nice houses and have plenty of money left over to be consumerists.

Some people are gonna have to make small sacrifices. Nobody today is forced to live in a one room shack and have everybody sleep in the same room while working 70 hours a week anymore. Thank God for that and be happy for every bit of good news we can find. You can hope for things to get better without being such a defeatist, Debby downer all the time about how terrible everything is.

We must have gone over these issues a thousand times. Going over it once more won't help. It would be better if you just caught up on your jabs.

[Outcast9428]

@Outcast9428

Where did I say that society needs to be a "near perfect utopia" for people to have kids?
I am just saying that currently things are hard for most advanced Western and Eastern countries to keep their reproduction level on par with those of the developing ones.

Look, people in the pre-modern times had to have kids because infant mortality was high, more children meant more workers to tend the fields( The Agrarian Economy) and more people to fight in the army(They didn't have assault rifles and bombs back then, so they have to bolster their numbers to fight with swords and horseback).

People in Nigeria and the third world have kids because their women have limited education, have tribal patriarchal culture, not a big powerful overarching federal government, and contraceptives are not widely available or condoned. Plus they don't have feminism, affirmative action, women receiving same education as men, and a big government to support and subsidize all that.

You said that first world countries are wealthy but guess what? Most of the wealth goes to the top elite oligarchy or corporate owners who controls the government and the masses get the scraps. You have to remember that even if you make a decent salary, most of it goes to rent, taxes, insurances, car, and basic necessaries. There is little left for savings. In addition, there are too many educated women entering the work force and all they expect of their men is make more money then them. It's called hypergamy. Also too many women in the work force depresses the wages for everyone. Moreover, the court system always favors the women and the men gets totally ripped off in divorce settings even if he has a prenup. prenup is just toilet paper.

I am not saying don't marry and have kids. I am just saying don't marry and have kids especially IN AMERICA and other Western countries. They are going to rip your balls off. Still if you want to marry and have kids here in America, then I don't really care. It's your life, but I have warned you.

I feel like it’s cutting one’s nose off to spite their face. Things could be better but if you don’t marry and have kids… It’s over, your genetic line dies with you. Everything you stand for is gone. It’s a tragedy, almost as much of a tragedy as suicide itself is. I wish the circumstances were better but that’s why I try to give as much power to the Republicans as I can and hope they will undo this system. As for Japan, their system isn’t as broken as ours is. Most things still work, it just needs tweaking.

[Natural_Born_Cynic]

@Outcast9428

Where did I say that society needs to be a "near perfect utopia" for people to have kids?
I am just saying that currently things are hard for most advanced Western and Eastern countries to keep their reproduction level on par with those of the developing ones.

Look, people in the pre-modern times had to have kids because infant mortality was high, more children meant more workers to tend the fields( The Agrarian Economy) and more people to fight in the army(They didn't have assault rifles and bombs back then, so they have to bolster their numbers to fight with swords and horseback).

People in Nigeria and the third world have kids because their women have limited education, have tribal patriarchal culture, not a big powerful overarching federal government, and contraceptives are not widely available or condoned. Plus they don't have feminism, affirmative action, women receiving same education as men, and a big government to support and subsidize all that.

You said that first world countries are wealthy but guess what? Most of the wealth goes to the top elite oligarchy or corporate owners who controls the government and the masses get the scraps. You have to remember that even if you make a decent salary, most of it goes to rent, taxes, insurances, car, and basic necessaries. There is little left for savings. In addition, there are too many educated women entering the work force and all they expect of their men is make more money then them. It's called hypergamy. Also too many women in the work force depresses the wages for everyone. Moreover, the court system always favors the women and the men gets totally ripped off in divorce settings even if he has a prenup. prenup is just toilet paper.

I am not saying don't marry and have kids. I am just saying don't marry and have kids especially IN AMERICA and other Western countries. They are going to rip your balls off. Still if you want to marry and have kids here in America, then I don't really care. It's your life, but I have warned you.

I feel like it’s cutting one’s nose off to spite their face. Things could be better but if you don’t marry and have kids… It’s over, your genetic line dies with you. Everything you stand for is gone. It’s a tragedy, almost as much of a tragedy as suicide itself is. I wish the circumstances were better but that’s why I try to give as much power to the Republicans as I can and hope they will undo this system. As for Japan, their system isn’t as broken as ours is. Most things still work, it just needs tweaking.

Duuude! How many times I have to tell you? I am getting out of America when I am saving up and I am going to marry a Snow Bunny Latina!
Even Winston Wu, got out of America and married Diane in the Philippines! I am not going to marry an American B*tch.

[Outcast9428]

@Outcast9428

Where did I say that society needs to be a "near perfect utopia" for people to have kids?
I am just saying that currently things are hard for most advanced Western and Eastern countries to keep their reproduction level on par with those of the developing ones.

Look, people in the pre-modern times had to have kids because infant mortality was high, more children meant more workers to tend the fields( The Agrarian Economy) and more people to fight in the army(They didn't have assault rifles and bombs back then, so they have to bolster their numbers to fight with swords and horseback).

People in Nigeria and the third world have kids because their women have limited education, have tribal patriarchal culture, not a big powerful overarching federal government, and contraceptives are not widely available or condoned. Plus they don't have feminism, affirmative action, women receiving same education as men, and a big government to support and subsidize all that.

You said that first world countries are wealthy but guess what? Most of the wealth goes to the top elite oligarchy or corporate owners who controls the government and the masses get the scraps. You have to remember that even if you make a decent salary, most of it goes to rent, taxes, insurances, car, and basic necessaries. There is little left for savings. In addition, there are too many educated women entering the work force and all they expect of their men is make more money then them. It's called hypergamy. Also too many women in the work force depresses the wages for everyone. Moreover, the court system always favors the women and the men gets totally ripped off in divorce settings even if he has a prenup. prenup is just toilet paper.

I am not saying don't marry and have kids. I am just saying don't marry and have kids especially IN AMERICA and other Western countries. They are going to rip your balls off. Still if you want to marry and have kids here in America, then I don't really care. It's your life, but I have warned you.

I feel like it’s cutting one’s nose off to spite their face. Things could be better but if you don’t marry and have kids… It’s over, your genetic line dies with you. Everything you stand for is gone. It’s a tragedy, almost as much of a tragedy as suicide itself is. I wish the circumstances were better but that’s why I try to give as much power to the Republicans as I can and hope they will undo this system. As for Japan, their system isn’t as broken as ours is. Most things still work, it just needs tweaking.

Duuude! How many times I have to tell you? I am getting out of America when I am saving up and I am going to marry a Snow Bunny Latina!
Even Winston Wu, got out of America and married Diane in the Philippines! I am not going to marry an American B*tch.

Ah that makes sense. For some reason I don’t remember that. That’s good. I wish you the best of luck on that.