No shortage of tech workers

[somedude]

I can only speak from my own personal experience. I work for a very large tech firm with over 100K employees. My group has had a very difficult time get even semi-qualified hires and it's been that way for years.

Traditionally a semi-qualified hire would be someone with an IT-related degree who you would then spend several years training up for a particular specialty. If you seriously can't find such people then that is really weird. I know of several people with IT degrees that can't find work. Then you have people who work as unpaid interns for years just to have something to put on their CV.

I generally agree with you, however degrees are BS anyway, skills are what matters. I've interviewed many with Masters degrees in the field they are applying for and didn't know their ass from a hole in the ground about subject matter related to the job they were applying for. This is not necessarily the persons fault for holding the degree but rather the college's for not teaching anything remotely useful about their major. I've been writing code and building circuit boards since I was 9, did not go to college, self taught, highly self disciplined and I'm paid very handsomely. But that's because I have the skills and the balls to back it up.

I'd mentioned before on a similar topic, there is a shortage of "QUALITY" tech people, no shortage of wannabe's. I see lots of Senior this and Lead that on peoples work titles nowadays and yet they are barely what I would consider entry level in knowledge and experience, they belong in the help desk or some other junior role learning the ropes and gaining that needed experience rather than in senior level or lead positions. It's a case of the blind leading the blind.

[Cornfed]

I generally agree with you, however degrees are BS anyway, skills are what matters. I've interviewed many with Masters degrees in the field they are applying for and didn't know their a** from a hole in the ground about subject matter related to the job they were applying for.

You may have misunderstood the purpose of a degree. It is not supposed to be vocational training, but rather selecting talented people and giving them broad background knowledge in some field. I have a brother who is a surgeon who often says that what he now does for a job has little relationship to what he learned in medical school. There is of course nothing wrong with this. The industry was set up as a conveyer belt to train people like him in the particular specialties. They didn't expect him to pick it all up in a lecture hall.

[davewe]

I also have a son who will enter college in a year or two. My advice to him is to learn farming. The modern world is f***ed beyond repair. New technologies absolutely suck without exception since they are designed in the context of modern culture. Java was the last respectable creation in the tech world. Modern software design just makes me want to puke.

Nothing wrong with farming I suppose but I don't see my kid doing it; glad you have yours doing it - we all need farmers.

The issue wasn't whether modern tech is valuable or not; I have mixed feelings about whether it is. The question is whether there is a shortage of workers. And all I can report is that in my corp. there is a shortage. I also have lots of contacts within other major corps in Silicon Valley - and they report similar problems.

As to the notion that all tech managers are idiots - you say that like it's a bad thing lol. Those morons have given me a nice career.

[somedude]

I generally agree with you, however degrees are BS anyway, skills are what matters. I've interviewed many with Masters degrees in the field they are applying for and didn't know their a** from a hole in the ground about subject matter related to the job they were applying for.

You may have misunderstood the purpose of a degree. It is not supposed to be vocational training, but rather selecting talented people and giving them broad background knowledge in some field. I have a brother who is a surgeon who often says that what he now does for a job has little relationship to what he learned in medical school. There is of course nothing wrong with this. The industry was set up as a conveyer belt to train people like him in the particular specialties. They didn't expect him to pick it all up in a lecture hall.

Yeah I realize this... however the issue I was attempting to demonstrate was the applicant not knowing this and applying for a position well above entry level and expecting to get it solely because of the degree. It would be like your surgeon brother applying for Chief Surgeon before he ever interned heheh

I also agree with what others have said too about idiot managers hiring greenhorns like this right into senior positions not knowing any better. Good companies generally know to have both a manager and a senior tech perform the interviewing.. of course this only works if the senior tech knows anything too.

Back in the late 90's early 2000's I interviewed a fella with a college degree who had also went on and earned a vocational tech school degree. His jaw dropped when he realized they taught him stuff that was 20 years out of date. "Sorry to be the one to tell you this, but no we really don't use paper tape readers anymore in year 2000, your not a really a good fit for this position." But you know what, I did refer him to another dept. within the company who was hiring juniors and he got a job. He learned quick and grew within the company fairly quick.

[fschmidt]

Nothing wrong with farming I suppose but I don't see my kid doing it; glad you have yours doing it - we all need farmers.

It's just a suggestion for my son, I don't know what he will do. But if I were young, that is what I would choose. The question is how can intelligent person best apply his intelligence, and in the modern world which is totally insane, the answer is that one can best apply one's intelligence where one is least dependent on the modern world, and I think that would be farming.

The issue wasn't whether modern tech is valuable or not; I have mixed feelings about whether it is. The question is whether there is a shortage of workers. And all I can report is that in my corp. there is a shortage. I also have lots of contacts within other major corps in Silicon Valley - and they report similar problems.

It's been a long time since I was hiring in Silicon Valley (thank God), but I remember how it worked. The recruitment firms would send over a bunch of resumes. Hiring was done based on buzzword matching. Actual talent was ignored. I saw this from both sides, both when hiring and when I was looking a job. The best solution to the tech worker shortage would be to round up all of the management in Silicon Valley and have them shot. Then somehow make sure that new management actually knows something about technology.

By the way, I recently decided that technology has gotten so bad that I would try to fix it for the few sane programmers left in the world. So I bought the domain "reactionarysoftware.com" and I will make software development services available there, starting with web development. My concept is that hardcore programming should be done in Java and everything else should be done in a nice simple language. Lua is close to ideal but not quite there, so I am developing a variant here:

https://code.google.com/p/luan-java/

[Cornfed]

Is there any reason tech workers aren't simply funneled into the industry from universities by prior arrangement in the way that med students are (or used to be)?

[xiongmao]

Is there any reason tech workers aren't simply funneled into the industry from universities by prior arrangement in the way that med students are (or used to be)?

The problem is that the IT industry doesn't want graduates. It wants the top 10% who are very experienced. Very few IT companies take up references before hiring. Instead they bring you in, and if you hit the ground running, you're given a longer term contract of employment.

It didn't take me too long to find a job (well 2 jobs) this year. But I had to put a lot of effort into my job search. Recruiters were very much looking for the best of the best. Trouble is they've all gone to Switzerland to earn $$$$$ working for hedge funds etc. etc .

[publicduende]

The shortage lie was invented in America to justify importing H-1B visa slaves.

Just another form of arbitrage. Why pay £5000 a month to a US, Ivy League graduated software engineer when you can hire an Indian youngster straight from one of the IIT (Indian Institute of Technology, that is) colleges for less than $2000.

The problem isn't the Indian chap, the problem is that software jobs are getting easier due to abstraction and commodity technology that can be integrated with a few lines of code.

[Cornfed]

The shortage lie was invented in America to justify importing H-1B visa slaves.

Just another form of arbitrage. Why pay £5000 a month to a US, Ivy League graduated software engineer when you can hire an Indian youngster straight from one of the IIT (Indian Institute of Technology, that is) colleges for less than $2000.

The problem isn't the Indian chap, the problem is that software jobs are getting easier due to abstraction and commodity technology that can be integrated with a few lines of code.

That and the fact that the scum responsible for this aren't being hanged or necklaced in the street as traitors.

[publicduende]

The shortage lie was invented in America to justify importing H-1B visa slaves.

Just another form of arbitrage. Why pay £5000 a month to a US, Ivy League graduated software engineer when you can hire an Indian youngster straight from one of the IIT (Indian Institute of Technology, that is) colleges for less than $2000.

The problem isn't the Indian chap, the problem is that software jobs are getting easier due to abstraction and commodity technology that can be integrated with a few lines of code.

That and the fact that the scum responsible for this aren't being hanged or necklaced in the street as traitors.

Yeah hang on though, I haven't said somebody is to be blamed for this change. It's a fact deriving from technology evolution. Software development itself is getting easier and easier, and proof of that is that many 25-yo kids with three of four years of learning .NET and scouring Q&A sites like Stack Overflow can "get the job done" just as well if not better than a developer in his 40's who realises 80% of what he learned is outdated or can be done more easily with commoditised tools.

We have to face it. Software engineering is a commodity industry, no longer the secret garden of an elite of nerds. Quality software that solves very complex problems (like big data storage, slicin & dicing and analytics) is now available free of charge or even as open-source, and it's the product of tens of thousands hours of man development by a collective of hundreds of people. You just can't beat that.

An elite of top developers who have the skills, the vision and possibly the courage to productise their idea will always exist, but the remaining 90% will be "technology integrator", a job that doesn't require particular talent, creativity or skill.

[starchild5]

I'm from India and we supply the highest number of tech workers aka slaves to America for pennies....They pay us shitty wages and make sure Americans are out of job as well...Killing two birds with one stone....

It seems they deliberately want us and nobody else....Indians or mostly Asians are the perfect slaves for the elites...trust me on this...No racism here....I was born, lived and seen everything that is called work here...Nothing but slavery to the western empire....

Do not be fooled, They pay us shitty wages so we are not profiting from them, they create laws, increase inflation, buy government to make sure....no one else comes up locally to compete with them...We don't have any choice but to work for these aholes....The worst is we are not even good at IT but still there is a big projection that Indians are the best but all software, codes etc are created by Americans, Eastern Europeans etc

I got to give it to them...They understand our psychology...you praise us and we grow wings...

We don't complain, we abide by the rules, don't demand much, work for long hours than required, we don't have much social life, we don't read anything other than what main stream and school says...We don't believe in conspiracies at all...

Its so much suffocation here ... The worst part you can't protest, the more you protest you are seen as Anti-progress, Anti-development

Well, don't think this will change EVER...looking at the way India as a society...We will produce perfect slaves for the elites for ever and ever

With the declining birth rates in India, and the one child policy in China, I don't think there will always be an endless supply of slaves, but on the other hand, when I graduated from college 5 years ago, there were only 5 students with I.T degrees. 2 computer science grads and the 3 with I.T, so what does that tell you about American college student attitudes, they just go to college to party.

Okay, so what would you suggest, completely cut off immigration so that we can go back to the good old days of nationalism and abandon globalization

They want immigration = NOT EQUAL Pay...all immigrants to IT are paid less than Americans....Its corporate greed.

Its same as China products where Americans are perfectly capable of manufacturing all products Made in China by themselves...The margin of profit that wall mart makes is over 400% ....

Millions of jobs are being shipped oversees...from clothes manufacturing to vehicles to computers that an American can easily create themselves...Its deliberate and planned...The real unemployment rate in America is well over 20%...All jobs that Americans have now is working at McDonalds or military....

Also, if we look at the history...America was at a much better shape where immigration was close to zero during the 60s, 70s.....

All programs like C, C++, Java, Javascript, linux was created by Americans or euroepans themselves ...

If we look at stats...The more Immigrants have come to America..The worse it has become than the past....Few elites have become super rich..Who is helping these elites become super rich...The immigrants...They are just happy to be in America The wealth between rich and poor have increased exponentially ...The present day immigrants have not made America a better place to live as many of Americans here in this forum feels it anyways...

[Tezcatlipoca]

Alright, so we agree on the problem at least... elites/wealthy f***s/etc trying to screw everyone else. So... use drones to assassinate them?

[davewe]

Is there any reason tech workers aren't simply funneled into the industry from universities by prior arrangement in the way that med students are (or used to be)?

The problem is that the IT industry doesn't want graduates. It wants the top 10% who are very experienced. Very few IT companies take up references before hiring. Instead they bring you in, and if you hit the ground running, you're given a longer term contract of employment.

It didn't take me too long to find a job (well 2 jobs) this year. But I had to put a lot of effort into my job search. Recruiters were very much looking for the best of the best. Trouble is they've all gone to Switzerland to earn $$$$$ working for hedge funds etc. etc .

There's lots of truth to this, although we do heavily recruit undergraduate and graduate students. We have no time, inclination or infrastructure to train staff. Therefore we look to hire people with the skills we need and thrown them at the work; it's sink or swim.

[OutWest]

My group has had a very difficult time get even semi-qualified hires and it's been that way for years.

There is a real problem with quality, but there is no problem with quantity. The H-1B's are no better than Americans on average, so they don't address the quality problem. When I started programming, there were actually a lot of good American programmers, but they were driven out of the field by low wages, H-1B competition, and idiot management.

The good news on this is that if you are semi-sharp there is a place for you in hi-tech.

This is mostly BS. Most managers haven't the slightest idea how "sharp" you are because they are morons themselves. The only place where being sharp matters is in a start-up where you can help make the product successful.

I've got a son entering college and since he's interested in computers I've told him he will always be employed in hi tech. But if I were to give anyone advise it would be to focus on new technologies. Mobile tech or the internet of things is where I would train if I were doing it now.

I also have a son who will enter college in a year or two. My advice to him is to learn farming. The modern world is f***ed beyond repair. New technologies absolutely suck without exception since they are designed in the context of modern culture. Java was the last respectable creation in the tech world. Modern software design just makes me want to puke.

I think one can reasonably argue that much of "High Tech" is an abstraction designed to manipulate
bricks and mortar and other actual commodity endeavors. You can have all the hedging and commodity related speculations in the world, but ultimately it comes down to who can grow the crop.
The average age of farmers in the USA is the oldest it has ever been., and I suppose if they were renamed as Agriculture Technology Specialists, they might become hip again.

I do know an Oregon farmer that grows Blueberries. He cleared over 500G last year and and could care less if anyone will "Offer him a job". He is a primary producer of a valuable commodity that is shipped all over the world. He grows money.

[publicduende]

Is there any reason tech workers aren't simply funneled into the industry from universities by prior arrangement in the way that med students are (or used to be)?

The problem is that the IT industry doesn't want graduates. It wants the top 10% who are very experienced. Very few IT companies take up references before hiring. Instead they bring you in, and if you hit the ground running, you're given a longer term contract of employment.

It didn't take me too long to find a job (well 2 jobs) this year. But I had to put a lot of effort into my job search. Recruiters were very much looking for the best of the best. Trouble is they've all gone to Switzerland to earn $$$$$ working for hedge funds etc. etc .

I agree. Gone are the days when a graduate would be taken on in the corporate machine, sat on a desk and given all training opportunities. On the sunny side, though, self-learning resources are much easier to come by (at least online) and sophisticated, and any graduate with passion and talent can train himself to a decent level in 2, max 3 years.

Hmm, I doubt the best of the best go to hedge funds in Switzerland. I am actually contracting for a Swiss hedge fund (with most of its IT here in London Mayfair) now, and I can tell you 75% of the developers are just about mediocre.