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Moral dilemma. How do you deal with it

Discuss personal development, self-improvement and motivational psychology.

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Kradmelder
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Moral dilemma. How do you deal with it

Post by Kradmelder » September 16th, 2016, 10:56 pm

I can't sleep. I don't feel right. Today I was filtering on my bike to the front of traffic at speed. I was late. I saw a black delivery boy knocked off his bike. He was ok and sitting up but him sitting in the middle of road and his bike down was the cause of the traffic. I was late for a meeting. I know I shouldn't move him but I should stop check and at least move his bike and talk to him and tell him sit back bru it will be sorted. No cager would. But I was late so didn't. All that flashed through my mind then. But I made the wrong choice and sped off between the cars.

I have never before ridden past a biker in trouble, no matter what bike or his colour. It is normal for cagers to drive past accidents but bikers just don't do that when a fellow biker is involved. It is against Christian ethics and biker protocol. And against all my upbringing and training

It reminds me of one of my best friends. If you think I'm racist, I'm liberal next to him. In the late 80s during a township uprising, the blacks were necklacing a young black girl. There was a huge crowd of blacks but none would do anything to help her. He jumped out of the armoured vehicle and tried to put out the fire with his hands. Then blacks opened up on him with ak47s. The crowd sheltered the shooters. The driver put our vehicle between the shooters and my mate while we put down fire over the crowd. Farkin savages. Trying to save one of their own and not one will help. But my mate did the right thing as a Christian and human. The media if they were filming would have said racist apartheid security forces fires at crowd. Before God it would be a lie. Point is he did what is right no matter what he thinks of blacks.

Today I failed to do what is right. In military situations there is nothing else but now so the choice is more clear. Day to day there is time and other issues and it more sudden etc. But that is not an excuse.

I see it as I listened to my own needs rather than to my duty to my God, my fellow man, and my responsibility. This behaviour may be normal in europe and america but not here. It feels like I'm becoming a modern westernized person instead of how I should be as Good White Man. Moral failure doesn't taste good. I don't want to be a modern westernized man. It is contemptible.

fschmidt
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Re: Moral dilemma. How do you deal with it

Post by fschmidt » September 17th, 2016, 5:18 am

This is probably the most fundamental moral question, quite beyond the understanding of the average modern moron, so you are unlikely to get many responses. This was the question asked of Jesus in Luke 10 and also discussed in detail in the Talmud. The question of who is your neighbor is the question of who you have moral obligations towards. I see 3 distinct answers: the Talmudic answer, Jesus's answer, and the Christian answer. The Talmudic answer is the same as the Western white nationalist answer, that your only obligation is to members of your race. The Talmud says to always help a jew. But for a gentile, don't push him into hole but don't help him out of a hole either. In other words, the gentile is not the jew's neighbor, so the jew has no moral obligation to the gentile. This is the pure racist position. The Christian answer is that everyone is your neighbor, so you are obligated to help everyone. But this is not at all what Jesus said in Luke 10 as I explained here:

http://www.mikraite.org/Who-is-my-neighbor-tp481.html

Jesus says that only those who would help you are your neighbor. This sounds great in theory, but quite impractical because there is no way to know who would help you. But there is a practical proxy, namely that if you belong to a group where most members help each other, then you should help all members of that group. So if motorcyclists in South Africa generally help each other, then I think that if I was a motorcyclist in South Africa, then I would help all others in this group.

I follow the Old Testament and I think Jesus was basically supporting the Old Testament position that the whole idea of a moral group (like the Israelites) is that they help each other regardless of their detailed beliefs or race. Jews and Christians just don't get this concept.

I was raised as a liberal which is basically a mutant form of Christianity, and I thought everyone was my neighbor. This kind of worked in America when I was young because America was still a pretty decent country and most Americans were decent, so helping everyone around me made moral sense. But America has changed and is now evil. I see absolutely no point to helping the average American today who I simply consider to be vile human scum. I now consider my neighbors to be people who belong to a group that would help me and my family. This includes members of my religion (Mikraite) and traditional Anabaptists. It does not include modern Christians who claim to love everyone, but their actions prove that this is bullshit, that they are hypocrites. And it doesn't include Orthodox Jews who may help me but not my family because my wife isn't jewish. The Japanese also seem like decent helpful people, so I also include them as neighbors. As far as I know, the rest of humanity generally would not help me, so I would not help them. This is about 90% percent of modern humanity, all worthless scum in my opinion. I have no moral obligation to them and I gladly screw them in business. This is my moral position now.

gsjackson
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Re: Moral dilemma. How do you deal with it

Post by gsjackson » September 17th, 2016, 5:39 am

I think how that scenario would play out in the U.S. would depend on where it happened. I don't like the guy's chances of having anybody stop to help in New York or L.A., but there would be lots of troubled consciences, and maybe a few helpers, in much of the rest of the country. Americans have big problems with truth, and all sorts of other character issues, but many will stop to help a fellow human in distress. And if it were a dog, all kinds of people would be stopping.

Don't beat yourself up too long over this. Just reaffirm what you believe your principles to be, and keep your eyes open for other opportunities to embody them. Peter denied Jesus, how many times? We all fall short, all too often.

Kradmelder
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Re: Moral dilemma. How do you deal with it

Post by Kradmelder » September 17th, 2016, 7:03 am

Schmidt, your answer explains why jews are disliked and explains their behaviour. Only help another jew and happy to screw gentiles in business. It is why i said i've never met a decent one. I understand it though and agree with your view on modern society. Those that say I'm Christian are usually the worst. But don't you think your current attitude will only enforce the stereotype? Your prior liberal one would be decent and just because you think most people as garbage as I do, it doesn't have to mean don't help them?

I believe most blacks are garbage, and the crime figures back that up. I could not care less for all their self inflicted misery arising from the behaviour of their group, and I would never harm one unless he is committing a crime, but if one is harmed by accident I would help. Same applies to a jew. I always help my jew neighbour even though he would never help anyone but another jew. His behaviour should not justify mine. The other example I gave also shows the moral stance of the white 'racists' I call my friends. Although it is your duty to help civilians and protect them, leaving a casspir into a murderous black mob is not. As vehicle commander he made a personal call. He also thought of blacks as garbage and absolutely despises them. Long exposure to their violent and criminal behaviour does that. But you don't leave one to be slaughtered. His response after was not one of those bastards would help. Meaning the black crowd. So their behaviour only reason enforced negative opinions of them as a group.

This view is what you call the Christian one, but in reality most church goers have the Talmudic one. I was not raised in such a belief nor do I subscribe to it. i am no liberal though lol!. I don't see blacks or even jews as my neighbour. I prefer apartness from them. I never screw a black cashier who gives me the wrong change. I return it and usually they are shocked. They would screw a whitey and gladly steal from him. But i know if their cash is short their pay is docked and they need the money. I try to be as decent as I can.

Bikers all over the world help each other. Bikers are very vulnerable to accident or theft so as a general rule you watch our for each other and greet each other. You have no spare tyre or many tools in case of breakdown. You can't lock your bike and walk somewhere so are dependent on each other. If you notice they always greet each other in passing irrespective of race and extend mutuagl respect. It is a culture that surpasses all other differences so that even a lowly black delivery boy is my brother and equal and he won't steal from me. It includes motorcycle cops, who also nod in greeting, even though they may be assholes to a motorist. Most motorists won't stop for bikers as they are afraid of us and see us as garbage. The opposite does not apply.

fschmidt
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Re: Moral dilemma. How do you deal with it

Post by fschmidt » September 17th, 2016, 11:02 pm

My question to you is simply why should one help who one hates? I don't understand it.

I believe that human evolution depends on war and on the slaughter of inferior populations. If we had permanent peace and assured survival, then we humanity would devolve into primitive primates. Positive human evolution depends on selection of the fittest.

It isn't my job to kill the unfit, I can leave this to natural forces. But I have no desire to interfere with this either, and if primitive people kill each other or starve, I will not help them. Helping them would be interfering with positive evolutionary forces.

My current attitude doesn't enforce any stereotype because average people are too stupid to see the truth anyway, and judaism has become quite effective at brainwashing morons. An intelligent person, on the other hand, should recognize that I am not part of judaism, so my behavior has nothing to do with them.

Of course like everyone, my views are largely the product of my personal experiences. Here in America, my most decent two friends were driven insane and to suicide by modern American culture. My other best friend who was more "normal" chased after my wife. So my feeling for Americans is basically pure hatred, and I would gladly slit their throats.

retiredfrank
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Re: Moral dilemma. How do you deal with it

Post by retiredfrank » September 18th, 2016, 4:46 am

I don't know the exact details, but in general, yes, bicyclists MUST help fellow bicyclists and ditto for motorcyclists.

I'm a dirt road bicycle tourer myself, riding a heavy steel bicycle loaded down with water and gear, dressed in hiking boots, regular pants, and cowboy hat, and I tend to look down on road bicyclists dressed in spandex, while they probably laugh at me plodding along as they speed past. But these are disputes within a family. Bicylists have to present a united front to the outside world (automobiles and trucks and police), and same for motorcyclists, for exactly the reasons you mentioned.

But like I said, I don't know the exact situation enough to judge. If a road bicycle gets a flat tire in city limits, I'm not going to stop and help with that. 50 miles from the nearest town in the middle of the desert is another story. If a bicycle gets hit and other people are already helping, no need for me to interfere. But if no one was helping, then I'd feel obliged to help.

OutWest
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Re: Moral dilemma. How do you deal with it

Post by OutWest » September 18th, 2016, 5:58 am

Kradmelder wrote:I can't sleep. I don't feel right. Today I was filtering on my bike to the front of traffic at speed. I was late. I saw a black delivery boy knocked off his bike. He was ok and sitting up but him sitting in the middle of road and his bike down was the cause of the traffic. I was late for a meeting. I know I shouldn't move him but I should stop check and at least move his bike and talk to him and tell him sit back bru it will be sorted. No cager would. But I was late so didn't. All that flashed through my mind then. But I made the wrong choice and sped off between the cars.

I have never before ridden past a biker in trouble, no matter what bike or his colour. It is normal for cagers to drive past accidents but bikers just don't do that when a fellow biker is involved. It is against Christian ethics and biker protocol. And against all my upbringing and training

It reminds me of one of my best friends. If you think I'm racist, I'm liberal next to him. In the late 80s during a township uprising, the blacks were necklacing a young black girl. There was a huge crowd of blacks but none would do anything to help her. He jumped out of the armoured vehicle and tried to put out the fire with his hands. Then blacks opened up on him with ak47s. The crowd sheltered the shooters. The driver put our vehicle between the shooters and my mate while we put down fire over the crowd. Farkin savages. Trying to save one of their own and not one will help. But my mate did the right thing as a Christian and human. The media if they were filming would have said racist apartheid security forces fires at crowd. Before God it would be a lie. Point is he did what is right no matter what he thinks of blacks.

Today I failed to do what is right. In military situations there is nothing else but now so the choice is more clear. Day to day there is time and other issues and it more sudden etc. But that is not an excuse.

I see it as I listened to my own needs rather than to my duty to my God, my fellow man, and my responsibility. This behaviour may be normal in europe and america but not here. It feels like I'm becoming a modern westernized person instead of how I should be as Good White Man. Moral failure doesn't taste good. I don't want to be a modern westernized man. It is contemptible.

The fact that you struggle with the dilemma sets you apart from so many. Duty to what is right sometimes requires one to help someone who is a member of the enemy.
The right is far larger than my own understanding of it.

What became of that girl? Did she survive?
One wonders, did she have a moment of clarity when she thought about a nameless white soldier who saved her, even when her own lusted for her blood?


You have defined yourself as a man,, apart from the worthless he-bitches that populate much of Western Europe and the USA. There is more honor in your struggle than most will ever know.

Citizen
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Re: Moral dilemma. How do you deal with it

Post by Citizen » September 18th, 2016, 3:57 pm

I think of the words of Batman to Ra Za Ghul (or whatever that guy’s name was) in Batman Begins, “I won’t kill you but I don’t have to save you.” (or something along that line). Just wait until Christ/God starts thinking like that.
fschmidt wrote:My question to you is simply why should one help who one hates? I don't understand it.

I believe that human evolution depends on war and on the slaughter of inferior populations. If we had permanent peace and assured survival, then we humanity would devolve into primitive primates. Positive human evolution depends on selection of the fittest.

It isn't my job to kill the unfit, I can leave this to natural forces. But I have no desire to interfere with this either, and if primitive people kill each other or starve, I will not help them. Helping them would be interfering with positive evolutionary forces.

My current attitude doesn't enforce any stereotype because average people are too stupid to see the truth anyway, and judaism has become quite effective at brainwashing morons. An intelligent person, on the other hand, should recognize that I am not part of judaism, so my behavior has nothing to do with them.

Of course like everyone, my views are largely the product of my personal experiences. Here in America, my most decent two friends were driven insane and to suicide by modern American culture. My other best friend who was more "normal" chased after my wife. So my feeling for Americans is basically pure hatred, and I would gladly slit their throats.
"...gladly slit their throats." you would do murder? I hate but your thought is foreign to me. I would not even steal from those I hate. I would hit or fight with them if they were doing wrong. But mostly I would try not associate with them.

fschmidt
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Re: Moral dilemma. How do you deal with it

Post by fschmidt » September 18th, 2016, 9:10 pm

Citizen wrote:"...gladly slit their throats." you would do murder? I hate but your thought is foreign to me. I would not even steal from those I hate. I would hit or fight with them if they were doing wrong. But mostly I would try not associate with them.
Yes I would kill them if I safely could. When I leave El Paso (which is mostly Mexican) and have to deal with America, I feel like I am surrounded cockroaches. Americans absolutely disgust me, they have no redeeming value, and I would squash them like cockroaches if I could. Since I can't, I just (legally) screw them out of money, as much as possible.

Kradmelder
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Re: Moral dilemma. How do you deal with it

Post by Kradmelder » September 18th, 2016, 10:03 pm

fschmidt wrote:My question to you is simply why should one help who one hates? I don't understand it.

.
I don't know. Maybe because of a gut feeling for what is right. Or a sense of humanity. Certainly it can't be rationalised. Some things can not be. Like faith.

I also have known men who when confronted with a black who has been shot will say let him vrek. They won't lift a finger. They are usually damaged in some way and not happy. Their marriages and friendships fail. I was also like that for a while.

Kradmelder
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Re: Moral dilemma. How do you deal with it

Post by Kradmelder » September 18th, 2016, 10:10 pm

retiredfrank wrote:I don't know the exact details, but in general, yes, bicyclists MUST help fellow bicyclists and ditto for motorcyclists.

I'm a dirt road bicycle tourer myself, riding a heavy steel bicycle loaded down with water and gear, dressed in hiking boots, regular pants, and cowboy hat, and I tend to look down on road bicyclists dressed in spandex, while they probably laugh at me plodding along as they speed past. But these are disputes within a family. Bicylists have to present a united front to the outside world (automobiles and trucks and police), and same for motorcyclists, for exactly the reasons you mentioned.

But like I said, I don't know the exact situation enough to judge. If a road bicycle gets a flat tire in city limits, I'm not going to stop and help with that. 50 miles from the nearest town in the middle of the desert is another story. If a bicycle gets hit and other people are already helping, no need for me to interfere. But if no one was helping, then I'd feel obliged to help.
LOL. I ride dirt by choice and the opinion of off roaders about the road riders on Harleys in pirate costumes, and sports bikers in expensive fashion power Ranger fashion is the same. Like you, I prefer middle of the bush with my bike loaded wait for a week and spare fuel.

Kradmelder
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Re: Moral dilemma. How do you deal with it

Post by Kradmelder » September 18th, 2016, 10:34 pm

OutWest wrote:

The fact that you struggle with the dilemma sets you apart from so many. Duty to what is right sometimes requires one to help someone who is a member of the enemy.
The right is far larger than my own understanding of it.

What became of that girl? Did she survive?
One wonders, did she have a moment of clarity when she thought about a nameless white soldier who saved her, even when her own lusted for her blood?


You have defined yourself as a man,, apart from the worthless he-bitches that populate much of Western Europe and the USA. There is more honor in your struggle than most will ever know.
I don't know what happened to her after. You do what you must do and move on to the next thing. You don't follow up or think about it at the time. With your mates you might bring it up in the canteen, but not the feelings of the victims if you know what I mean. Guess it sounds heartless, but you don't think much then. Certain things come back later in life, some fade, some not.

Life is the accumulation of baggage. Your character and upbringing determines how you deal with it.

Suicides on the border were more related to letters from home than things men did that were wrong. Deceny was far more common than hate. To the extent that some medics refused to bring in mail because they didn't want to come back for the victim. No cell phones or skype back then. Hate like fschmidt feels, I don't feel it. I don't like blacks because of how they behave, but I never felt a desire to slit all their throats. People are different. His baggage made him feel different from me. There is no rationalizing it.

Russian1860
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Re: Moral dilemma. How do you deal with it

Post by Russian1860 » September 30th, 2016, 9:33 am

Wrong topic title. It should be called not dilemma, but remorse. The situation was not crucial, so there’s no need to blame yourself too much. Everyone is capable to make a mistakes.

And that is good, that you felt remorse that day. Because next time you will definitely stop and help someone, who may need your help even more. You are a human being in the first place, and that is great that your humanity hasn’t worn off. It’s stronger, than your bias.

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