Manufactured Lookism Against Men

[newbgold]

Hi guys,

I wrote on this forum once before, and I would like to write once again.
We should not beat ourselves up over our looks. We should not be beat ourselves over the head for not conforming to stupid and arbitrary male looks standards. It is not our fault that in 2010s men are held up to these very ridiculous rules.

I have an educated guess about male looks. My guess is that the current male looks standards are completely made up by the modern media. Yes, I think that the current male looks trends are nothing but an artificial construct.

We all know what particular stereotype of a man is considered good-looking in the modern world. We all know all too well that men that look something like the following are considered good-looking according to the modern standards.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/23 ... 0fa240.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/RdU6xEo.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-h-8AIgOXKCU/V ... sexual.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_DwkoQu6qNwQ/S ... dd%27s.jpg

What do these men have in common?
They have a dumb, empty, hollow eye expression. Their gaze seems to express no serious or smart thought. This is what this forum seems to call "the slayer eyes". Their facial expressions are usually cold, and often even aggressive, expressing no warmth. Often, this gaze is overtly intimidating, in your face. On the hand, men whose facial features express intelligence and warmth are deemed to be unattractive to modern women. Often, men with "smart" or "warm" facial features are considered to be "ugly" or "creepy" to modern women, when they are absolutely not. This is nothing but a stereotype constructed by the current popular culture.
All these model men have disproportionately chiseled jaws. This also adds hardness to the face, making it looking more dominant or sometimes even aggressive.
Likewise, these model men have disproportionately chiseled bodies. They have a male stripper physique, with cartoon sized shoulders, chests, and biceps. While some muscle definition makes a male body look fit and healthy, this kind of male physique looks exaggerated.
Often, these men have tribal tattoos on their biceps or their pecks. This also makes their bodies look even more aggressively intimidating.
This caricature trope is how a "real man" is supposed look nowadays, and this seems to be the only type of male look that the modern media promotes as "handsome", "good-looking", and "attractive". Any deviation from this "ideal" can be seen as "ugly". Already at least one generation of women have been brainwashed into believing this clear ridiculousness.

It wasn't always like this. It wasn't always this way. Male beauty standards were completely different in a not such a distant past.

Paul McCartney
called "The Cute Beatle" and "Cutie Paulie" in 1960s
http://gazettereview.com/wp-content/upl ... artney.jpg

Al Pacino
Film star, considered to be very handsome by women in 1960s and 1970s
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/or ... 6f11f4.jpg

Many modern women now say that the Beatles were “oh so ugly”. But according to girls from 1960s, Paul McCartney was very handsome according to the standards of the day, and he was often referred to as “The Cute Beatle” or as “cutie Paulie”. Yes, you may claim that he was called that only because he was very famous and not because of his looks. But nobody was saying "cutie Johnny" or "cutie Georgie" (although girls liked them too, but not for their looks, rather for their fame and their talents). So, McCartney was called that particularly for his looks. Similarly, girls of the day considered Al Pacino to be one of the best looking actors. His most famous role was the gangster Michael Corleone in the famous 1972 film The Godfather. It is very likely that many modern girls would not give such a man a second look. But does that make McCartney or Pacino unattractive? No, of course not! Since they were considered handsome back in 1960s, then they really were handsome. It's just that many modern young women are under a spell of very intense media propaganda. It's as if they have a drape over their eyes, as if they are programmed by a strong hypnosis.

Even though I grew up in America, I descend from Russian speaking immigrants from former USSR. My parents showed me many Russian films, especially classic film from Soviet era. Thus, I am very well informed of the classic Russian pop culture (although I am hopelessly unfamiliar with Russia's modern pop culture of the 2010s, but I can imagine that it's very shallow and callous, 1000s of times worse than that in USA). I asked my parents what types of men were considered to be good looking in their youth. I asked them to give me examples of male celebrities that were considered to be most handsome back then. They gave me several examples of the men whose looks epitomized male aesthetic attractiveness in the Soviet era. Millions of Russian speaking women from the baby boom generation would unanimously agree with this.

Igor Kostolevsky
Russian film star, considered to be a male 9 by Soviet women in 1970s
http://1001material.ru/wp-content/uploa ... 736fe4.jpg

Alexander Abdulov
Russian film star, also considered to be a male 9 by Soviet women in 1970s
http://ussr-kruto.ru/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/615.jpg

Yuri Okhochinsky
Russian popular singer, considered to be a male 9 by Soviet women in 1980s
http://velvetvoice.artspb.ru/images/200 ... _Turku.jpg

All the above men are a far cry from the modern Chris Hemsworths and their lookalikes.
Possibly, these men would be considered merely "average looking" or even "ugly" or "sexually invisible" on a tinder app or in a loud night setting, if they were transplanted from the 1970s to the modern times. But these men were the quintessence of male handsomeness to millions of women from the baby boom generation! Men famous firstly for their looks too! And now, they could be considered "not good looking enough"! Why? Just because these men differ in their looks from the arbitrarily constructed modern so-called "ideal"? Yes.
So, what would make these very attractive men from the old times unattractive to some of today's women?

I think that it has first to do with facial expressions, especially eye expressions. Paul McCartney and Al Pacino both have large round eyes, that give off an expression of warmth and gentleness. Maybe even some sensitivity, empathy, and vulnerability. Also, their faces express some deep thought and some intelligence. Same things can be said of their Russian counterparts Igor Kostolevsky and Alexander Abdulov. Contrast this with facial expressions of modern "hunks", which are usually cold, often dumb, and often express nothing, maybe only some harshness and aggressiveness. Some modern women think that a man expressing warmth is unmasculine, that it's a sign of weakness, and is thus unattractive. So, a man with "warm" facial features would be "ugly" to these women by default. Similarly, a man with a face expressing thoughtfulness or pensiveness is stereotyped as nerdy, or in extreme cases, even “creepy”.

Paul McCartney and Al Pacino (as well as Kostolevsky and Abdulov) had the refined look of elegance, class, and sophistication in their facial features. A large bulk of modern women would not appreciate this, simply because they raised to perceive elegance as a nonmasculine quality, and thus weakness. They don't understand it, it's like Egyptian hieroglyphics to them. They were raised to believe that only cold facial features, chiseled square jaws, chiseled exaggerated upper bodies, and washboarded abs make a man good looking, and everything deviating from this somehow makes a man weak and thus "unattractive".

We can think of it like this: Pacino and McCartney (and the aforementioned Russian guys) are the male equivalents to Audrey Hepburn, while these so called modern "hunks" are male equivalents to a Pamela Anderson or a Britney Spears. Perhaps if all sources of entertainment, TV, movies, shows, internet, socials networks would always drum into men's heads that Pamela Anderson is the one and only ideal of female beauty, maybe men too would become dismissive of all other types of women. Maybe if we had Pamela Andersons and her clones drilled into our heads all our lives so much, we too would have rejected all other female archetypes as "not good looking enough". Even a woman that looks like Audrey Hepburn.

I had a recent discussion about this with my Mom. She was born in 1960, and in her youth, she looked similar to Andie MacDowell from Groundhog Day. So, she was quite a good-looking woman in her younger days. (By comparison, my Dad looks like John Lennon). She is from a different generation, and doesn't find the male "hunks" attractive in any way. For example, back in 1990s, my Mom was very surprised why all the women were finding Brad Pitt to be the epitome of male attractiveness. She said that this was an imposed standard that turned into an echo chamber. As a child in 1990s, I remember her being baffled: what is it with all these younger women that find him good-looking? She had said that Brad Pitt looked bland, slightly primitive, and that he had no class and no grace in his looks. Cute at best, but definitely not an embodiment of male attractiveness. My Mom also had said that his jaw looked oversized for his face and made his face look goofy. And she also said that had the media not reiterated that Pitt is the quintessence of male attractiveness, then few women would have perceived Pitt as that. Many would have found him cute, but not quintessentially attractive. Certainly, in this case, equation Brad Pitt ≡ male attractiveness would not have held. There had always been cute and masculine male celebrities in film, and later on television. And the film and TV would always advertise such men as attractive. Examples abound, such as Cary Grant, Jimmy Stewart, Henry Fonda, and so on. This is fine, there is nothing wrong with this. But I remember that Brad Pitt was the first male celebrity whose looks were advertised with such an unprecedentedly zealous obsessiveness. Every media outlet was calling him "sexiest man alive" and similar titles. And in all this, there seemed to be a subtle subtext, "he is hot, while you are not".

Then, since 1990s, with every new iteration, there would come a new "sexy" male celebrity, a new "ideal" of male beauty. And with each iteration, his eyes would have a colder look, his jaw would look more chiseled, his abs would look more washboarded, the biceps would look more intimidating (and now tattooed too) and so on. And with each new Hollywood "hunk", there always came this subtext, "he is hot, while you are not", and this subtext was more and more apparent. Every time a new “hunk” is introduced and presented as “very sexy” and “very hot”, there is always this underlying message that other men are somehow worse than him. He is hot, while anything different than his look is not. And this presentation of these “hot” male celebrities seems more and more ardent and vehement, and a little bit totalitarian too. Similarly to how some religions preach that their belief is the only right one. As a result, we now have a generation of women that have been completely distorted under this barrage of chiseled clones coming from every screen. It’s no different in 2010s Russia too. They also have a whole slew of their own homegrown tattooed, chiseled, and washboarded specimen that Russian media uses to bombard their women, and with the same vehemence too. Propaganda works like this. If you repeat something enough times and with enough frequency, everyone would eventually accept this as fact and not question it. It’s no wonder that so many modern women are like this.
As I discussed this more with my Mom, I told her how popular bad boys have become in the most recent years. I think that this had all started with the TV show Jersey Shore. I enlightened her on the appearance of these so-called “douchebags” or “Chads”, the men who combine a very brazen and brash behavior and cartoon overconfidence with hypertrophied muscles and tattoos. Then, I showed my Mom some pictures of these “Chads”.

http://www.returnofkings.com/wp-content ... -hardy.jpg
She cringed in total genuine disgust when she saw them. She said: “Yuck, they look disgusting, why are you even showing them to me?!” I told her that this what many of today’s young women consider to the personification of a “real man”. I told her that this is the type of man that many of today’s young women are after. I told her that there are quite a few women want these men and would go the edges of the earth for them. She replied: “They look really gross. If what you claim is true, are these women taking some hard drugs or have they gone nuts?! And close these pictures, I don’t want to see them!” But I pressed on: “But let’s say that we transplant these men to late 1970s. You were a very young woman, in the prime of your youthfulness. What if one of them would have approached you in a bar? Would you have been attracted to them?” My Mom was getting annoyed: “Are you kidding me? I would have ran for the hills”. I explained her the evolutionary theories from the Red Pill theory that such “douchebags” are considered attractive because in the prehistoric times, such men would be able to best protect their women from saber toothed tigers. And I got into the territory where I should not have gone: “I understand that you would not have wanted to marry one of these men, but wouldn’t such a man elicit at least some primal attraction?” My Mom now lost her temper: “Have you gone insane?!! Do you want me to punch you?!! I am not a cavewoman!!! I am a civilized woman!!! We have evolved from that primitive state long ago!!!” And when she calmed down, she added: “In prehistoric times, such a “douchebag” would be more likely to attack the tribe’s encampment rather than protect anyone. Now keep these pictures of your “Chads” far away from me.”

Does that make my Mom a NAWALT? Is she some freak of nature, some rare snowflake? No, she is a woman raised in a more sane generation.
But this is not the end of the story.
Unfortunately, on this forum, there are so many men who hate their own race. Just because the media perpetuates arbitrary constructs that certain whole races of men are “unsexy”, so many men here are beating themselves up for no reason. I really feel compassion for any of you who calls himself an ethniccel or other such slurs, because you were driven to the brink, because modern media purposefully paints Indian, Asian, Middle Eastern, and Jewish ethnicities as somehow “unsexy” or “unexciting”. This construct is truly false, but as with all other propaganda, the more you repeat it, the more it will be commonly accepted. It is perhaps of no coincidence that these “unsexy”ethnicities put a lot of value in education. Possibly, an intelligent man would not be able to kill a saber toothed tiger with his bare hands, but he would be smart enough to know where to find places safe from saber toothed tigers, know how to make best stone tools to defend against these saber toothed tigers, and so on.

My Grandma was born in USSR in 1931. That same evening, she was reminiscing on the subject of popularity of Indian films in the post war era, with the actor Raj Kapoor in particular. https://in.bookmyshow.com/entertainment ... _joker.jpg.
She went on saying how Indian men are really handsome. How great are their faces. How beautiful are their eyes. How dark and long is their hair. She said that Indian men are some of the most aesthetically attractive in the world. There was the World Festival of Youth and Students in 1957. Since USSR and India had good diplomatic relations at the time, many Indian men were invited to come to Soviet Union for the festival. As my Grandma recalls, there were many half-Indian babies born in USSR in the aftermath of the event. How time change! In modern Russian, under Putin, they now have rampant racism with occasional violent incidents, and this racism is subtly encouraged by Putin’s propaganda machine as well. But in the better times, Russian girls dreamed of meeting a man from India. And it is not just my Grandma, but many white women from the Silent generation worldwide found Indian men attractive. So, this total bullshit that Indian men as a whole ethnicity are somehow “unsexy” is nothing but modern crap! If the media vehemently paints WASPy overmuscled overchiseled “hunks” as the “only correct religion”, then of course, many young women will become so narrow-minded that they will develop a tunnel vision.
Then, I told my Grandma about how men spend many long hours in the gym to get those washboarded abs and then get tribal tattoos over them. Then, they take pictures of their bare chests and upload them on apps like Instagram and tinder just for a chance that a woman would notice them and sleep with them. My Grandma was a bit bewildered: “Are you rewriting an anti-utopian science fiction novel based on Bradbury, but with a sexual twist to it? Is this some dystopian fantasy of your, along the lines of Orwell’s 1984? You have a really have a wild imagination.” I tried to explain to her that this is often the modern reality for many men, but it was all but futile. Then, I showed my Grandma the same pictures of ripped “Chads” and told her that this the modern “ideal”. She asked: “Oh, I see. Your anti-utopian science fiction story takes place in some far away galaxy. Are these the aliens in your story?” Any more conversation would have been futile after this point. So, as you can see, women did not find these “Chads” attractive at all until they were told to do so in the recent years. (As an aside, I just read on the Internet that there are “Chads” in modern Russia as well, they are called “ultras”, and they are known to have ultra-nationalist views, and they are somewhat encouraged by Putin’s government).
By the way, I want to say that not all Millennial women are like this too. I have said “some young women” and “many young women”, but certainly far from all. Maybe I come from a very good state in USA, but I still see many young couples where the woman is attractive and where the man is very far from being a “hunk” or a “Chad”. Not as many such couples as one would ideally want to see, but still a plenty in the place where I come from. I still see attractive young women with nerdy men quite frequently, although not as often as in 2000s. So maybe our forum tends to exaggerate and overdramatize things a bit. This forum, and much of the manosphere talks of the so-called Parato Principle. The manosphere claims that only 20% of men that match the ridiculous “douchebag” ideal most closely can get women at all, and everyone else goes without sex. But do we have a way to prove that this Parato principle is true? Can we actually find figures and prove this? Is there a way to do this without planting video cameras into people’s homes and recording who gets laid and who goes incel?
But why is the media promoting all this lookism against men so aggressively?
Is it a eugenics experiment where they want to breed brawn over brains? Although it sometimes seems this way, I hope not, and I don’t think so. Most likely, it is done as a way to make up for women having been objectified for their looks. It is true that men have always been a more visual gender throughout most of recent history. There is this fallacious reasoning that now it is time for men to taste their own medicine and for men’s looks to be objectified out of vengeance for all the subsequent objectification of women. But this reasoning is fallacious, because it misses an important point. It is much easier for women to improve their looks. For any woman of any ethnicity, she just had to watch her diet, not overeat, maybe grow out her hair long, and maybe put on some makeup and some lipstick. Maybe in a very extreme case, if she has a very long nose, a minor cosmetic surgery. If a man wants to look like a character from TV show Jersey Shore, first and foremost, he needs to make the gym his second full time job. Or maybe even quit his job to dedicate your time into building washboarded abs and hypertrophied muscles. Working out in the gym and growing muscles is a wonderful thing that makes you feel happier and healthier. It should definitely be done for your own health. But not so that you can become a caricature that women were brainwashed to desire. I suspect that most men would need powder and gainers, and even steroids to look like a cast member of Jersey Shore. Steroids would eventually destroy your body in the long term. Also, all those hideous tattoos that most sane men would have found them repulsive on themselves. But it’s another requirement too. Then, as we all know very well, an ordinary man would need lots of plastic surgery to look like Jersey Shore. First, jaw implants, and lots of major facial restructuring, even lefort III. Second, you would need some further work done on your neck and your body, for instance, butt implants. Third, you would need a leg lengthening surgery to increase your height if you happen to not be very tall. Only millionaires can afford such extreme looks maxing. And all those multiple surgeries would kill you before your looks would approach those of a Jersey Shore. What if you have “deep” and “expressive” brown eyes? What if you have dark skin? Or what if your skin is too pale? What if you are bald? For some men, it would never be possible to reach these arbitrary ideals.
And there is another reason why modern objectification of men is different from the historical objectification of women. Today’s media is much more advanced. Every image is in a very high definition, sometimes more clear than real life. There are many more images now. We are exposed to images much more frequently. Back in the day, if a man wanted to see Audrey Hepburn, maybe once a year he would see a new movie with her in the movie theater. Those movies had very poor color quality. Possibly a poster or two before the premiere. Maybe two times a year, she would be shown on his grainy black and white TV set with a small screen. Even in the later days, if a man wanted to see Pamela Anderson, he was also quite limited. Maybe one or two playboy magazines, maybe one videocassette. And Baywatch was aired only once a week on Friday nights at 8 pm. If you were invited to a party on a Friday night, you would have to wait another week to see her. On the other hand, a modern girl sees a Chris Hemsworth when she wakes up and checks her Facebook. At least one of her friends would have his pictures in her feed. Facebook can easily become an echo chamber for pictures of the latest “sexy” male celebrity. If one girl (especially if she is popular) starts posting pictures of a “sexy” male celebrity on her Facebook feed, then all other girls would start swooning over him and reposting his pics. Then, there is good image search with HD images. Then, there is YouTube with HD videos. There are pop-ups and links such as “check out his amazing abs” on almost all websites, even on Yahoo.com. Then, there is twitter, tumblr, pinterest, and an endless online supply of pictures of these Hollywood “hunks”. She can set her Facebook app on her phone to notify her whenever a new picture of a Chris Hemsworth gets posted on her feed. And she might get tinder messages from men that look like her favorite celebrities as well. Her phone goes off quite often, feeding her with this more and more. Since we swipe our fingers when we use our phones, the act of swiping develops into a reflex. So, her visual sense is involved (she sees these “sexy men), her sense of touch is involved (she touches the phone with her fingers when she swipes through the feed with new images), and possibly even her auditory sense (if her phone makes a buzz when she receives notifications). Her whole neural circuitry has a shortcut every time. Her brain chemistry gets rewired, because her brains start to release unprecedented amounts of dopamine at the sight of these “sexy” men. She becomes like a dog in I.P.Pavlov’s experiments. So, the modern day objectification of men is much more high level than historical objectification of women, due to very sophisticated technology.
The third reason why perpetuating male looks standards is different from perpetuating female looks standards is that women are much more suggestible than men. As a whole, women tend to have a greater tendency to develop herd mentality. In online seduction communities, there is a term called a man’s “preselection”. If a certain man is portrayed in a sexually favorable light, then majority of women becomes attracted to this man. When women notice a man wildly successful with other women, most of them automatically become attracted to this man. He can be ugly, fat, short, bald, grey haired, unemployed, uneducated, and so on, but if he is somehow being “preselected” as sexually desirable, women will fall for him. “There must be something about him because all other girls like him” they would think. Let’s suppose that the modern media with its very sophisticated technologies decides to use all its sources to aggressively perpetuate that this man http://echo.msk.ru/files/765037.jpeg?1333961388 is the “sexiest man alive” and the “ideal of male attractiveness”. I believe that under such pressure, almost all women would find the above man as sexually desirable. And by association, women would start in real life pursuing short chubby balding greying middle aged men with round horn-rimmed glasses. If only such a man were given external “preselection”. Likewise, what the modern media is doing is giving two groups of men, the chiseled and washboarded male models and the bad boys massive artificial preselection. With any new movie similar to Fifty Shades of Grey, a chiseled washboarded “sexy” man gets this “preselection” reinforced. With any new TV show similar to Jersey Shore, “Chads” get their “preselection” reinforced. So, no, setting male beauty standards is not the same thing as that for females.
I want to say that I have absolutely nothing against Brad Pitt or Chris Hemsworth or all Hollywood “hunks”. Actually, I feel compassion for Pitt after what his wife did to him, and I wish that he will able to recover from that soon. What I am against is the vigor with which they are presented as the only true male ideal, with the apparent subtext “they are hot, while you are not”. Do you guys also notice this subtext or is it just me? Do you guys also notice this totalitarian manner? And what I am against is that it affects us and our dating lives.
“Chads” are a slightly different story. They have perfected the cold empty facial expression and they have perfected their muscularity and tattooing one step further. But in addition to that, they developed this very unpleasant “bad boy” attitude. Many celebrity “hunks” may look fierce and intimidating, but they are really pleasant people. On the other hand, the “douchebags” try their hardest to appear mean and nasty. It is hard to blame them too, because they are getting this sexual “preselection” as a category and they see that this way of acting gets rewarded. I am very frustrated that these men are idealized so much in the modern society, but I am not hating on them. I understand how annoyed we are with them, but we should try not to hate on them.
What we must first do is stop beating ourselves up over this.
Mass action has worked wonders in history. Peaceful mass demonstrations have brought about sweeping societal changes in the past. In 1915-1935, during the labor movement, and strikes brought about the forty-hour week and a more fair treatment of workers. In 1955-1975, during the civil rights era, protests and demonstrations gave minorities the rights to vote, to ride buses, brought our troops out of Vietnam and Nixon out of the White House. Historically, nonviolent demonstrations really did change things quite a bit. When tinder and all these male looks standards were just starting out, men should have teamed up and demonstrated with signs such as “Down with impossible male beauty standards”, “All we are saying is give nonhot guys a chance”, “stop marginalizing nonhunky men”, and so on. There was the Civil Rights Movement, and this would have been the Sexual Rights Movement. Maybe several years ago, it could have worked.

Unfortunately, it is now too late in 2017. Tinder, Instagram, as well as other numerous social networks have become fully entrenched institutions. You can stand on the street with a sign that says “occupy Wall Street”, no problem, but it may be far more risky to protest with a sign that says “occupy tinder”. If revolution and protest are no longer options, then reform is still an option. If you cannot rebel against the system, at least you can try to change the system from within. This is going to be very tricky, but it can work.
We need to try to reform Facebook, twitter, Instagram, and tinder, and other such institutions to make them friendlier to men and to make them more inclusive of men. We need to determine a definite undeniable proof that what tinder is doing is an unethical practice. And what the multiple media is doing is unethical as well. After all, tinder is ultimately a fraud, because it promises something that it can’t deliver. Likewise, the night club settings are also a fraud, because they too promise what they cannot deliver. Many night clubs have advertisements that feature pictures of “sexy” women, dressed in skimpy clothing. It is thus implied that they market themselves as places where a man should go to meet women. Nowadays, there is a lot of stigma for men to meet women through work or social circle. “Shitting where you eat”, you will be shamed. So, many men realize that their only other options are using night club settings, dating sites, and tinder apps, which are all sausage fests that still leave them empty handed. Think of it like this, let’s imagine that you want to go to Best Buy to buy a new model of a Lenovo laptop that you estimate will cost $600. That’s what all the Best Buy ads and flyers say. But when you enter your local Best Buy, you see a few recent Lenovo models that you want that are priced to $1,000,000, or you can pay $600 for them if you win a lottery. It turns out that all you can buy with your $600 is a used 1990s Dell model. You go through all Best Buys in the city and find the same story everywhere: your model of Lenovo costs $1,000,000 or win a lottery, instead of the $600 that were promised to you. You realize that you have been duped. What would have happened to Best Buy if it would have operated this way in real life? It would have long been history. This is sort of how tinder is for men.
The best way in this unfair situation would be to become complete MGTOW. It is best to disengage from all this. But at the same time, going MGTOW is a complete denial of your innate sexual and romantic instincts that would remain unfulfilled. From what little I know of biology, sexual intimacy releases many beneficial hormones, including oxytocin. Sexual release through masturbation to pornography is actually harmful to your health, especially your brain. Most people on this board are either college aged or graduate school aged. Some of us have friends or male acquaintances that study biology. We would need to get in touch with them to see how oxytocin and other pleasure hormones can be released without sexual intercourse. Are there safe food supplements that may stimulate their release? Are there herbs? Are there certain physical exercises? Is there a type of meditation that can simulate sexual activity?

We need to get in touch with college aged and graduate school aged men majoring in psychology and sociology. We should explain to them the lookism theory and how it affects women’s standards. We need to get in touch with marketing majors, and men who are just starting to work in marketing. We should clarify to them about how the media markets one narrow male look. These men will eventually rise to the positions that will change how men’s looks get marketed in the media. We should get in touch with political science majors. Those men might be able to lobby somethings. We need to get in touch with law students. They would be able to determine whether mass media, social media, and tinder are unethical. Perhaps, through lobbying, it would be possible to get mass media, social media, and tinder to change their practices to those that favor men more. For example, it may be possible to get mass media to be more inclusive about all different types of male looks.
Also, we need to get in touch with similar websites and blogs that are based on the knowledge of the Red Pill theory. There are many blogs that talk about men’s issues, including their problems attracting women. We should outreach toward them to start cooperation.
I think that it is best to avoid extremist activists, especially from the alternative right wing movement. I think that blogs such as Matt Forney, Roosh V, Return of Kings, Heartiste are nothing but racists and fascists. Some of their writing is actually sexist against women. Not to mention how much anti-Semitism I encounter on those blogs. Being Jewish, I find those manosphere sites revolting beyond belief due to all their racially charged vitriol. So, I would rather not get mixed up with these radicals.
But there are many decent and mature sites. For example, A Voice For Men and http://www.goingyourownway.com. Some men’s rights activists are well known and respectable figures. The contingent of men that frequents these sites is older men, who have more life experience than most of us. They are usually wiser and more practical than us. They know how the real world and the legal system works better than we do. And while some men on thee sits are bitter, few of them are hateful extremists. We need to outreach toward these men’s rights groups, and explain to them that modern lookism against men has become an industry. We need to explain how media brainwashes women to be attracted to only one narrow type of a man. We need to prove to these activists that some young women have developed a psychological reflex to find only these men attractive. And we need to show them that objectification of men for their “chiseledness” and “washboardedness” is now off the charts.
We should bring their attention to the sexist slur “hunk”. You can have a hunk of bread, or a hunk of meat, or maybe a hunk of steel. But calling a man a “hunk” is ultimately very demeaning. Likewise, calling men “creeps” is even more dehumanizing. Since we live in a fair and a politically correct society, we need to promote that both such words are politically incorrect slurs. That these are no different from racist speech or sexist slurs against women.
Sites like http://www.avoiceformen.com have mostly mature older member, but a lot of men from the older generations just don’t get it. They don’t understand why I fret so much about men’s looks. When I discussed this with my Dad and my Grandpa, they each asked me: “Why do you care about all those male celebrities? Why do you care that girls find these tropes attractive?” My reply was: “because they find those tropes attractive at the expense of men like me, and this affects my dating life.”
Also, a lot of older men would say that men’s looks always mattered. They always did matter somewhat, but never to this extent. This lookism against men has never been so rampant.
So, it would take a lot of work to convince older men, but we can do it.
I will take this post to the men’s right forums in a few days.
Our goal is to get the media to stop promoting extreme male looks standards so aggressively at the expense of all other types of male looks. (To get them to drop the subtle subtext “these men are hot, while you are not”). Our goal is to get the media to portray all other types of men in a more sexually favorable light. Our goal is to turn Facebook and tinder from enemies into a friendlier environment for most men.
I think that we as men should stand up for our sexual rights and try to change the system from within, but without resorting to violence and radicalism.
Maybe this is too naïve and too idealistic, but I think that it worth a try.
I apologize that this is so long. This was supposed to be my two cents, but I think that it became more like my twenty dollars. Do you guys agree with this? Do you disagree? Am I a bit too categorical and reductionist in my thinking? Are these too many generalizations in my post?
TDLR
a. Women like chiseled, washboarded, tattooed men and “Chads” firstly not because of their looks, but because there is a massive promotion of such male celebrities.
b. It is only the most recent generation of young women that developed lookism to such an extreme.
c. Women in previous generations thought that completely different looks were attractive, more elegant and refined features, not cold and intimidating features. Some of those older women find the present standard of male beauty repulsive. Case study: my Mom and Grandma
d. The media promoting “sexy” men is different than the media promoting “sexy” women:
I. It is hard for most men to get chiseled faces and bodies without steroids and plastic surgery
II. The media is promoting these “sexy” men very aggressively and with a subtle subtext that “they are hot, while you are not”
III. Technology is very sophisticated, where women can get bombarded
IV. Women are more impressionable with what is “sexy” and what is “unsexy”. They trust more if a certain man is externally “preselected” as “sex” for them
e. Change the system from within
f. We should get in touch with older guys from A Voice For Men and with the MGTOW movement. They are more mature than us, and they are more knowledgeable about how the real world works.
g. We should get in touch with our peers
I. Psychology majors
II. Markerting majors
III. Political science majors
IV. Law students
V. Biology majors: if you can’t laid, how to get oxytocin and other pleasure chemicals released without resorting to porn or drugs

[MrMan]

We've had a conversation about males perceiving other males as good looking on here recently. Over half the men I've discussed this with in real life couldn't tell, either. I'm in Asia at the moment. Maybe it's a cultural thing. Al Pacino, chiseled muscle men... none of them look attractive to me. You can list the characteristics women do or did find attractive, but it's hard to perceive the combination.

Cultural archetypes can effect what we consider to be good-looking. I grew up when models were thin, and I find thinner women attractive, but the the Rennaissance, some of the artists apparently preferred chunkier women than I do and than many of us do today. We may see a move toward men liking fatter women, since that's what's available, and if fat acceptance makes its way into the modeling industry and who they choose to be the big stars in Hollywood.

Maybe women go for more muscular, aggressive looking dudes than they used to. I suspect there are still women who like the less threatening looking men.

But this post about 'lookism'... and shouldn't that be 'looksism' sounds like the kind of stuff women whine about in regard to women's looks when they talk about Barbie dolls and such.

[Kradmelder]

What women like is fleeting and changes as quick as their wardrobe. So whe worry about what looks women find attractive. Next season and the next rubbish out of Hebrew wood and women magazines and it has changed. Just look like what makes you feel good about yourself. If you are happy and confident the women will come around.

My current gf wants me to change my wardrobe and cut my hair like George Clooney and a few others and says I will look just like that. She says mine is so old fashioned. It is cut shaved sides and back number zero and long on top and slicked back like a stormtrooper with brylkreem haven't been to a barber since the army. Just cut it myself. Fark their fashions.

I tell her no way am I going metro. Yet she chose me and stays. She knows I am a man and won't be swayed by fashion and what women want.

One time I walked into a place and some liberal heifer said you look like a real nazi. I just said thank you . By not being a woman pleaser you attract them.

[yick]

'One time I walked into a place and some liberal heifer said you look like a real nazi. I just said thank you '

Hahahahahaha - that made me laugh!

[Kradmelder]

'One time I walked into a place and some liberal heifer said you look like a real nazi. I just said thank you '

Hahahahahaha - that made me laugh!

She wasn't impressed. That was in the western cape. I was meeting a mate in Paarl. I rode my bike up onto the pavement, covered in mud and dust, instead of using the gate to walk into the cafe, i just swung my leg over the hedge and stepped in. In front of me there were two faggots holding hands so i stopped and stared at them. That is when this woman walked over and told me that. My mate and his wife were at a table and burst out laughing. They figured no liberal heifer was going to intimidate me into PC behaviour Such open faggotry is not normal, except in the WC.

May mate's wife laughed and said but you do look like those old pics of nazis

[newbgold]

Hebrew wood

Let's end this neo-nazi belief that there is some Jewish conspiracy behind everything. And if there is a conspiracy theory, somehow it's always by Jews of all people.

I am Jewish. I find such anti-Semitism completely revolting! Let's keep our thread free from racially charged stereotypes.

And besides, Jewish men are also marginalized by the modern pop cultural Hollywood standards. For some reason, we are often stereotyped by the media as "nice Jewish boys", which really portrays us in an "unsexy" light. As a result, some of our own women find us "unexciting" and prefer to sleep with the goyim. Same way as some Asian women in USA. THe image of male model presented by the modern media is a dumb, tattooed, overchiseled, overmuscled WASPy male celebrity, similar to the Aryan ubermensch. The total opposite of Jewish!

If Hollywood were truly run by Jews, why would they do this against themselves? This makes no sense.

[Eric]

Hollywood is run by Jews, that's common sense. Everyone knows it. ...they would do it to their own because they're doing it to everyone. They want to destroy everything and build it from the ground up. Ordo ab chao is the motto.
They, the elite Marxist Jewish cabal, has done all of this... they've basically done it all to destruct normal, healthy relationships between men and women, end the Christian marriage; that's it.


That's why they've done it. It is absolutely miserable out there... they are dropping like flies and like necromongers converting.


*the chiseled cold, materialistic aggressive look - is hawked to add to create a cold/ impersonal environment...further destroying any marriages and fostering coldness & distance between men and women.
It's working.


It's such a shitty environment out there. I'm one step away from pulling an entire fschmidt, and hanging around a church community, making that the center of my life, my social community, and my daily surroundings. It sounds extreme and it is, but this is really happening, and that is not a drastic measure- given the current environment.
This place, the U.S.A ...is like the Soviet Union right before the JEW commisars threw it over.

Facts are facts. Now you know how "whites" feel.

I always wondered how it was somehow so hard here to get a girlfriend or why natural men + women relationships didn't happen... i was so disturbed and distressed by this that I didn't know what to do. I knew they were doing it, but didn't know why. It was all deniable, I couldn't be sure any of this was actually true - so I faltered in my effort and confidence to take steps to "help" myself. All of this deniable, it's done in silence... so you can't be sure that it's happening, that's how they get you. NOW ALEX JONES and the Indy Media have blown this wide open. Now people know... expect a police state coming.
We live in an anti-environment that's basically set up against everything we're trying to do. No wonder living is so hard for normal folks now. Unless you convert.....it's just easier, that's why so many are doing it.
Then there's no hope.

We need to get rid of this plague of the Deep State over us. We need to now, or there's no hope for us.
Quite honestly I'd be willing to die fighting them if we stand a chance than to keep living like this, this is no way to live life.

[Eric]

Looks are the last things we should be worried about. That's really only a small thing. Focus on getting yourself right, getting your head straight and right, organizing a community like I've said; that's what I'm doing.
It's no longer indefinable and excusable, not deniable... this shit's happening, for real.

[newbgold]

Eric,
Alright, let's get angry mobs with bats and let's get cossacks on their horses, and start pogroms. Let's desecrate Jewish cemeteries and synagogues. Yeah, let's put those Jews in ghettoes again. And those communists and gays and gypsies as well. Let's get the gas flowing again.
Is that the drift of your message?

[newbgold]

The WASPy chiseled hunks took over Hollywood. Whose fault is it? The Jews.
The people are cold toward one another. Whose fault is it? The Jews.
It's raining in Seattle today. Whose fault? Of course, it's the Jews again.
My car is not starting. Who is at fault? Of course, it's a Jewish conspiracy behind this too.

[newbgold]

I have a counterexample to refute all the talk of Jewish conspiracy in Hollywood.

The majority of popular media in Russia is run by Russian nationalists, Russian Orthodox Church, and white supremacists. All these groups are pathologically anti-Semitic. You would not find any Jews in the modern Russian media establishment.
Still, Russian mass media also presents chiseled, washboarded, tattooed male celebrities with cold aggressive facial features. And Russian mass media promotes these men with the same ardor and brainwashes women with the same message that only ripped "hunks" are the only "real men". In fact it's even worse. Russian "ultras" are much more aggressive than American "Chads" and "douchebags". And Russian TV is far more callous and shallow than American TV. If you think that American pop culture is most shallow in the world, if you spoke Russian and watched their TV, you would be convinced otherwise. And again, Jews in top positions of Russian media are nonexistent.

[Eric]

Please, shut the f*ck up.

[Kradmelder]

A jew who calls himself gold is trying to say end the stereotypes

And trying to say Hebrew wood is not jewish. what can you watch not produced by a berg, stein, witz or Blatt?

Put one over on the goyim again? Sorry Shlomo. You must do better than that.

[Jonny Law]

Hebrew wood

Let's end this neo-nazi belief that there is some Jewish conspiracy behind everything. And if there is a conspiracy theory, somehow it's always by Jews of all people.

Let's keep our thread free from racially charged stereotypes.

And besides, Jewish men are also marginalized by the modern pop cultural Hollywood standards. For some reason, we are often stereotyped by the media as "nice Jewish boys", which really portrays us in an "unsexy" light. As a result, some of our own women find us "unexciting" and prefer to sleep with the goyim. Same way as some Asian women in USA. THe image of male model presented by the modern media is a dumb, tattooed, overchiseled, overmuscled WASPy male celebrity, similar to the Aryan ubermensch. The total opposite of Jewish!

If Hollywood were truly run by Jews, why would they do this against themselves? This makes no sense.

OHH POOR BABY :
You say: "I am Jewish. I find such anti-Semitism completely revolting!"

Jonny Law's Advice:
GO f**k YOURSELF

I WOULD LIKE TO THANK LIB-TARD (LIBERAL RETARDED) JEWS
1. Feminism
2. Communism
3. Funding Hilter
4. Abortions
5. Multiculturalism (White Genocide)
6. Modern day expulsion of Jews from Europe
JEWS HAVE NO FUTURE IN EUROPE
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-l ... 37556.html

[Kradmelder]

Hebrew wood

Let's end this neo-nazi belief that there is some Jewish conspiracy behind everything. And if there is a conspiracy theory, somehow it's always by Jews of all people.

Let's keep our thread free from racially charged stereotypes.

And besides, Jewish men are also marginalized by the modern pop cultural Hollywood standards. For some reason, we are often stereotyped by the media as "nice Jewish boys", which really portrays us in an "unsexy" light. As a result, some of our own women find us "unexciting" and prefer to sleep with the goyim. Same way as some Asian women in USA. THe image of male model presented by the modern media is a dumb, tattooed, overchiseled, overmuscled WASPy male celebrity, similar to the Aryan ubermensch. The total opposite of Jewish!

If Hollywood were truly run by Jews, why would they do this against themselves? This makes no sense.

OHH POOR BABY :
You say: "I am Jewish. I find such anti-Semitism completely revolting!"

Jonny Law's Advice:
GO f**k YOURSELF

I WOULD LIKE TO THANK LIB-TARD (LIBERAL RETARDED) JEWS
1. Feminism
2. Communism
3. Funding Hilter
4. Abortions
5. Multiculturalism (White Genocide)
6. Modern day expulsion of Jews from Europe
JEWS HAVE NO FUTURE IN EUROPE
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-l ... 37556.html

Jews are always offended. Always wringing their yarmulkes and bringing up holocausts and pogroms and antisemitism like above. What stereotypical jewish behaviour while telling us to stop stereotyping.

You forgot to add endless middle east wars, usury, male stripping divorce laws, smut aimed at children form what was once Disney channel before being taken over by jews etc.

And who can forget that Tesco stripper doll aimed at 6 yo girls out of Israel

Do you think he is gone to eat chicken soup or matzoh? We are not going to get to Schmooze with Jews? Oi vey.

Shalom everyone