Join John Adams, world renowned Intl Matchmaker, Monday nights 8:30 EST for Live Webcasts!
And check out Five Reasons why you should attend a FREE AFA Seminar! See locations and dates here.



View Active Topics       View Your Posts       Latest 100 Topics       FAQ Topics       Mobile Friendly Theme


Can women actually write software?

Discussions computers, internet and mobile technology (cell phones, smart phones, iPads).

Moderators: fschmidt, jamesbond

fschmidt
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2592
Joined: May 18th, 2008, 9:16 am
Location: El Paso, TX
Contact:

Post by fschmidt » November 22nd, 2012, 10:54 am

Can anyone think of any significant open source software written by women? I have been using open source software and contributing to open source for a long time now and I have never seen a single female open source programmer.

User avatar
publicduende
Elite Upper Class Poster
Posts: 3387
Joined: November 30th, 2011, 6:20 pm

Post by publicduende » November 22nd, 2012, 10:55 am

Cornfed wrote:
momopi wrote:1. The customer determines if our products and services are of any value, not you or I. Our clients tell us what they want and pay us to make it happen. If they're unhappy with our services, they're free to go elsewhere at any time.

2. How marketable your skills are is determined by market supply & demand, not your personal opinion. Currently the average salary for PMP certified PM in US is $108,000/year. Certified ScrumMaster (CSM) and ITIL certs will also enhance the paycheck toward 6 figures.
You seem to be begging the question here by implying that because you are being handed money you must be doing something inherently valuable. In fact most people being handed money in the West are useless parasites on welfare of one form or another. The fact that your company has a culture such as the one you describe would tend to suggest you and your colleagues fit into this category, since if the company was expected to produce anything useful, lazy and irresponsible employees would all be fired. I suspect that most of the IT industry is now a middle class welfare scheme. As to your supposed qualifications, the fact is that your job as you describe it does not utilize any technical skills. Buying hippy tea and nagging people not to be quite so lazy is simply not the mark of a skilled job. That you are paid more than minimum wage just indicates that you are overpaid. Life isn't fair. Just as wives are generally overpaid in divorce, various corporate employees are also overpaid.
Such arrogance for someone who knows so little about the IT industry. What exactly are your skills and what exactly do you do to deserve those welfare handouts at the expense of taxpayers like momopi?

User avatar
Cornfed
Elite Upper Class Poster
Posts: 7310
Joined: August 17th, 2012, 5:22 am

Post by Cornfed » November 22nd, 2012, 10:14 pm

fschmidt wrote:Can anyone think of any significant open source software written by women? I have been using open source software and contributing to open source for a long time now and I have never seen a single female open source programmer.
I can't think of any. The women involved in open source projects seem to contribute nothing other than shrill whining that men are not constantly effusively praising their non-contributions. They do however manage to worm their way into influential administrative positions with the help of mangina lackeys, which they use to enforce political correctness and generally drag the whole venture down to their level. For example, some horrible freaks calling themselves "geek feminists" managed to have MikeeUSA's projects removed from open source portals a few years ago for his crime of not being a feminist. That something like that can happen makes me think the open source movement is no longer worth bothering with.

User avatar
Cornfed
Elite Upper Class Poster
Posts: 7310
Joined: August 17th, 2012, 5:22 am

Post by Cornfed » November 22nd, 2012, 10:37 pm

fschmidt wrote: I have been using open source software and contributing to open source for a long time now and I have never seen a single female open source programmer.
The lack of any meaningful contribution by women to open source software would seem to be fairly conclusive proof that women can't write software. Corporations own the world at the moment and so have the resources to give pretend jobs to as many unemployable people as they want. Hence the fact that some skank is hired as a programmer is no guarantee that she can actually program. However, to be known in the OS world you do actually have to be able to program and, just as importantly, have an interest in programming that goes beyond your next paycheck. The fact that there are plenty of alleged corporate female programmers but essentially no female OS programmers would tend to suggest that the corporate so-called programming jobs given to females are a social engineering scam.

momopi
Elite Upper Class Poster
Posts: 4890
Joined: September 1st, 2007, 5:44 am
Location: Orange County, California

Post by momopi » November 23rd, 2012, 1:47 am

Cornfed wrote: You seem to be begging the question here by implying that because you are being handed money you must be doing something inherently valuable. In fact most people being handed money in the West are useless parasites on welfare of one form or another. The fact that your company has a culture such as the one you describe would tend to suggest you and your colleagues fit into this category, since if the company was expected to produce anything useful, lazy and irresponsible employees would all be fired. I suspect that most of the IT industry is now a middle class welfare scheme. As to your supposed qualifications, the fact is that your job as you describe it does not utilize any technical skills. Buying hippy tea and nagging people not to be quite so lazy is simply not the mark of a skilled job. That you are paid more than minimum wage just indicates that you are overpaid. Life isn't fair. Just as wives are generally overpaid in divorce, various corporate employees are also overpaid.
1. The boring and undescribed part of my job can be found in PMBOK v4.

2. If you do not have access to it at work or local library, you can read the older PMBOK v3 here:
http://users.encs.concordia.ca/~hammad/ ... nglish.pdf

3. Our clients are in the mining and energy sector world-wide. Every time that you pump gas, buy gold/silver, turn on your lights/computer, or buy food, you're contributing to my paycheck and bonus. It's like coins raining down on my piggy bank. So please, give yourself a hug and pat in the back for me. I thank you for supporting my upper middle class "welfare scheme", and paying for that juicy prime rib in my oven. I will think of you when I make gravy from the drippings today with beef stock and red wine reduction.

User avatar
Cornfed
Elite Upper Class Poster
Posts: 7310
Joined: August 17th, 2012, 5:22 am

Post by Cornfed » November 30th, 2012, 11:04 pm

Here is a tract which touches on how the software industry is now largely a scam. It is not surprising that females and other incompetents like managers who can't read code can flourish in such an environment given that the whole enterprise is a joke to begin with. In this sense the outsourcing of the industry to wogs could be seen as a positive step. Paying people less to do nothing is a step towards paying people nothing to do nothing, i.e. giving up.

http://www.buildfreedom.com/content/rec ... pter1.html
If all this [dysfunctional corporate culture] is true, there should be no software being produced at all. The software industry should be impossible, yet vast numbers of people are employed in it. So what's wrong? The simple yet shocking answer is that no software is being produced, but there is a vast, global pretending industry! Think about it. For all the hysterical marketing hype, when was the last time you saw a new software product, instead of Version 8.9 of something that existed by 1993? Since we can manufacture existing software by copying it, we really don't care about old stuff. It just doesn't signify. What matters in software is the new stuff. In software, we should be producing new stuff, day in and day out, like traditional industry produced the same stuff, day in and day out. Yet since the early 1990s, the global software industry has been trapped in a state where fearful employees pretend to be engaged in performing robotic activities with ever faster repetition rates, rush into meeting rooms to discuss their ever more complex tool configuration issues, and frantically talk up their "genius", as evidenced by all the wonderful "complexity" that they have produced. But nothing ever comes out!

Until recently, it's been possible to conceal the non-productivity of the global software industry by blurring the issues, and falsely applying the standards of traditional mass production (same stuff every day) to the software industry (new stuff every day). Because the software industry can produce the same stuff every day without making any effort at all, it's been possible to hide what is going on. In traditional industries using manual labour, a worker who (for example) engraves a complicated pattern is more productive than a worker who engraves a simple pattern. In the software industry this is not true. A mindless computer can generate software complexity, but only real work by a conscious mind can find simplicity. And selling copy after copy of the same program for outrageous prices, as if the cost realities of traditional manufacturing industry apply - and they don't - has kept revenues flowing in, as Internet connectivity has been rolled out to over a billion human beings.

Even with those unjustified revenues, the whole thing has become a grand mirage, in which many global companies wandered off into the delusional state of sitting around in meeting rooms, creating notional value by selling each others' shares around in circles, and writing it down as profits. The software industry fell into the grip of a climate of fear, hysteria, evasiveness and reality denial which was captured by Scott Adams in his "Dilbert" cartoons.

After a brief period of fertility, during which the software wealth we currently enjoy was constructed by the minority of inductive thinkers in our culture, the deductivist bias took hold, and software production stopped dead.

fschmidt
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2592
Joined: May 18th, 2008, 9:16 am
Location: El Paso, TX
Contact:

Post by fschmidt » November 30th, 2012, 11:36 pm

Cornfed wrote:Here is a tract which touches on how the software industry is now largely a scam. It is not surprising that females and other incompetents like managers who can't read code can flourish in such an environment given that the whole enterprise is a joke to begin with. In this sense the outsourcing of the industry to wogs could be seen as a positive step. Paying people less to do nothing is a step towards paying people nothing to do nothing, i.e. giving up.
I agree with this, but it isn't just the software industry that is scam. Basically all of modern corporate culture is a scam and produces nothing. Virtually everything produced is either made abroad in places like China or is made by Western men (not women) outside of the corporate world. Here is a good book that explains how dysfuntional the corporate world is:

Corporate Confidential

Note that this book is written by a woman who actually believes in the corporate system. Only a woman would be so delusional to believe in such a system, so only a woman could have written this book, and I thank her for it.

User avatar
Cornfed
Elite Upper Class Poster
Posts: 7310
Joined: August 17th, 2012, 5:22 am

Post by Cornfed » December 1st, 2012, 1:31 am

fschmidt wrote:I agree with this, but it isn't just the software industry that is scam. Basically all of modern corporate culture is a scam and produces nothing. Virtually everything produced is either made abroad in places like China or is made by Western men (not women) outside of the corporate world. Here is a good book that explains how dysfuntional the corporate world is:

Corporate Confidential

Note that this book is written by a woman who actually believes in the corporate system. Only a woman would be so delusional to believe in such a system, so only a woman could have written this book, and I thank her for it.
Given the diseased nature of the culture, it is hardly surprising that so many whorporate staff are spiritual lepers mouthing PC shibboleths like publicduende. It is unfortunate that corporations are allowed to hire inherently useless people to kiss the upper management's asses rather than hiring actual talented human beings and giving them meaningful mind-feeding projects, even if there is not currently an economic rationale for the projects. I wonder what will be done with all the bootlicking parasitical freaks when their system finally brings about its own destruction. I can't imagine them fitting into normal human society.

User avatar
publicduende
Elite Upper Class Poster
Posts: 3387
Joined: November 30th, 2011, 6:20 pm

Post by publicduende » December 1st, 2012, 12:58 pm

Cornfed wrote:
fschmidt wrote:I agree with this, but it isn't just the software industry that is scam. Basically all of modern corporate culture is a scam and produces nothing. Virtually everything produced is either made abroad in places like China or is made by Western men (not women) outside of the corporate world. Here is a good book that explains how dysfuntional the corporate world is:

Corporate Confidential

Note that this book is written by a woman who actually believes in the corporate system. Only a woman would be so delusional to believe in such a system, so only a woman could have written this book, and I thank her for it.
Given the diseased nature of the culture, it is hardly surprising that so many whorporate staff are spiritual lepers mouthing PC shibboleths like publicduende. It is unfortunate that corporations are allowed to hire inherently useless people to kiss the upper management's asses rather than hiring actual talented human beings and giving them meaningful mind-feeding projects, even if there is not currently an economic rationale for the projects. I wonder what will be done with all the bootlicking parasitical freaks when their system finally brings about its own destruction. I can't imagine them fitting into normal human society.
It would help for you to know more about the corporate world, the software industry, women and myself before laying a judgment like the one above. I don't even know where to start commenting on such a dense ball of BS. Maybe society is going towards its demise and all these spiritual lepers mouthing PC shibboleths will have justice. In the meantime, it's people like you, spitting sentences against everything and everyone from their basement chairs while raking up welfare checks that pay for their pizzas and Internet, who won't fit into normal human society. The biggest risk of a professional hater like you, Cornfed, is that you become what you hate, without even realising it.

User avatar
Cornfed
Elite Upper Class Poster
Posts: 7310
Joined: August 17th, 2012, 5:22 am

Post by Cornfed » December 1st, 2012, 10:10 pm

publicduende wrote: It would help for you to know more about the corporate world, the software industry, women and myself before laying a judgment like the one above. I don't even know where to start commenting on such a dense ball of BS. Maybe society is going towards its demise and all these spiritual lepers mouthing PC shibboleths will have justice. In the meantime, it's people like you, spitting sentences against everything and everyone from their basement chairs while raking up welfare checks that pay for their pizzas and Internet, who won't fit into normal human society. The biggest risk of a professional hater like you, Cornfed, is that you become what you hate, without even realising it.
I'm not on welfare. People who actually are on the state dole are a much higher class of being than those in whorporate welfare jobs since they consume less resources, are available for actual work, don't have to go around spreading the cancer of political correctness and aren't crowding talented and useful people out of the system.

lmd12358
Freshman Poster
Posts: 5
Joined: July 10th, 2013, 10:52 pm

Post by lmd12358 » July 10th, 2013, 11:04 pm

This is one of the most sexist and frankly annoying posts I have ever seen.

First off, being a male does not give you some special advantage in writing computer software. None.

I can list many, many women that I know, personally and professionally, who are excellent programmers. My Software development division of my company, while probably 80% men, has some of the best programmers I've met who are female. The are more proficient than many of the men who work here and contribute a lot to our company. I've known both of them to win hackathons we go to, to beat out all the men at coding competitions we have here at work, and to write straight up good code.

One of my best female friends writes code for robots in the medical field, and mentors high school robotics teams in her free time. Another woman I know codes games for her kids in her spare time.

Don't try to tell me females cant program.

I will say that I have met woman who are bad programmers. But I have also met plenty of men who are shit programmers, so that is hardly a decent argument.

If you look at any big technology firms (Facebook, Google, etc.) they all hire plenty of women, and many are also specifically seeking out women to work at their company.

If you're going to say something so stupid at least have some decent points to back up your argument.

User avatar
Cornfed
Elite Upper Class Poster
Posts: 7310
Joined: August 17th, 2012, 5:22 am

Post by Cornfed » July 10th, 2013, 11:25 pm

lmd12358 wrote:This is one of the most sexist and frankly annoying posts I have ever seen.

First off, being a male does not give you some special advantage in writing computer software. None.
Being a man means that I have ~ 6 times the grey matter of you insect-brained females and don't think any hysterical hormone-driven emotions I happen to have define reality. That is an advantage in creative pursuits.
I can list many, many women that I know, personally and professionally, who are excellent programmers.
Fine, then you should be able to answer an earlier question in this thread and list a few females who are well known coders of open source software. That is the acid test of course, because while whorporations can hire female "programers" just because they have a vagina, to be well known in open source software you have to actually write workable code. You could also list innovative programs the females you mention have actually written, rather than just talk about what they are nominally hired to do.

User avatar
publicduende
Elite Upper Class Poster
Posts: 3387
Joined: November 30th, 2011, 6:20 pm

Post by publicduende » July 11th, 2013, 12:23 am

Cornfed wrote:Fine, then you should be able to answer an earlier question in this thread and list a few females who are well known coders of open source software. That is the acid test of course, because while whorporations can hire female "programers" just because they have a v****a, to be well known in open source software you have to actually write workable code. You could also list innovative programs the females you mention have actually written, rather than just talk about what they are nominally hired to do.
An interesting article. It seems that women are indeed under-represented in the open source software community. That is though not much of an argument in favour of women being inferior software developers than men. It's just a fact of life.

http://women2.com/opening-open-source-to-women/

The scarcity of women, however, at this conference and on this project, wasn’t surprising. Women are estimated to represent 3% of open source contributors. In the US today, women represent 25% of all software developers and 18% of students currently graduating with computer science degrees. The participation of women in open source is particularly low even when compared to the already low participation of women in computer science.

User avatar
Cornfed
Elite Upper Class Poster
Posts: 7310
Joined: August 17th, 2012, 5:22 am

Post by Cornfed » July 11th, 2013, 12:40 am

publicduende wrote: An interesting article. It seems that women are indeed under-represented in the open source software community. That is though not much of an argument in favour of women being inferior software developers than men.
Of course it is. Open source coders are people with the ability and inclination to code. Corporate "programers" and the people the powers that be choose to hire to fulfil their warped political agendas. By examining the difference we can tell who the real coders are and aren't.

But what reason does the article give for female non-participation in open source? They are "afraid that other members will not treat them respectfully" (i.e. shower them with effusive praise for being female). LOL, since when do talented men run scared from something they are deeply interested in just because everyone else may not bend over backwards to massage their egos? And I thought females were supposed to be strong and independent. I can't believe anyone takes crap like this seriously.

User avatar
publicduende
Elite Upper Class Poster
Posts: 3387
Joined: November 30th, 2011, 6:20 pm

Post by publicduende » July 11th, 2013, 1:34 am

Cornfed wrote:Of course it is. Open source coders are people with the ability and inclination to code. Corporate "programers" and the people the powers that be choose to hire to fulfil their warped political agendas. By examining the difference we can tell who the real coders are and aren't.
Well this is another one of your myths. Lots of very good developers work on open source of free of charge projects released on the various Google Code, CodeProject, Codeplex etc. But don't forget that the same developers have to pay their bills, which means they work on commercial projects, more often than not in large corporations. I know plenty of very good developers who work, like me, in various financial institutions and love to work evenings and weekends on various pet projects, websites or mobile apps chiefly, most of which are regularly released to the public free of charge or in the open source community.

Why oh why you have to see corporate evil everywhere, it's beyond me.
Cornfed wrote:But what reason does the article give for female non-participation in open source? They are "afraid that other members will not treat them respectfully" (i.e. shower them with effusive praise for being female). LOL, since when do talented men run scared from something they are deeply interested in just because everyone else may not bend over backwards to massage their egos? And I thought females were supposed to be strong and independent. I can't believe anyone takes crap like this seriously.
Consider that the above article stays within a narrow definition of open source. Open source ain't just Linux stuff anymore. It's web stuff, Microsoft stuff, let alone other IT resources such as design and styles, online courses. If you consider the broader "free stuff" market, the number of women involved does rise. I couldn't give you the exact figures, but I can guarantee you that rise it does.

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Computers, Internet, Mobile Technology”