Most people don't want freedom. So we've assumed wrong?

[Winston]

Hi all,
I've been listening to a guy that Mr S recommended to me long ago named Michael Tsarion. He is an awesome expert on the occult, the illuminati, mind control and conspiracies. If you type his name on YouTube, you will find many of his interviews and presentations, and his documentary "Architects of Control" as well, which I highly recommend.

Anyhow, I was listening to some of his new interviews during the past few days, and he said something interesting. He said that from his research, he has realized that most people do not really want freedom. The evidence does not indicate that most people want to be truly free. He also said that the type of people who want real freedom are those with a developed sense of self or individuality that is independent from the collective.

I think this is true. Most people, especially in the mainstream and especially the conformists in Asia, are not seeking the kind of freedom that we are. They want to be enslaved and told what to do, preferably by a good boss or leader. Being enslaved, to a job, duty or routine, gives most people a sense of security and purpose. Thus, most people actually prefer security over freedom. If you think about it, this makes sense and most people (especially in Asia) are like this. They are not the freedom junkie seekers that we are.

So we've assumed falsely that everyone else is like us. It's a common fallacy to assume that others want what you want, and think as you do.

What do you think?

Michael Tsarion also said a few other interesting things:

- He said that freedom and individuality are relatively new concepts. In the ancient past, there was no freedom and no one sought it. People saw themselves as a collective. They lived their whole lives in the same place they were born, and did not have the mobility to move anywhere else. They stayed in the same social class their whole lives too. They performed their duty and role and didn't question it, as long as they had enough food and money. People did not try to become individuals, nor did they see themselves as such. This means that we are an aberration?

- He also said that the act of thinking itself is a relatively new phenomenon. In the ancient past, people did not think much. They performed their roles and functions and didn't question it. All they needed was enough food and money to survive on. Only a tiny minority were involved in thinking a lot, such as Greek philosophers, scientists, and rulers. This means that we are an aberration?

I think this is probably true. Tsarion sees these things as a positive step in our evolution. What do you think?

I think these things are true. However, in the ancient past, people had inherent traits such as passion, virtue and glory, that we are missing today. In the modern industrial era, we have more conveniences, but life is soulless, mechanistic, cold, and isolating. People are more like machines today than human. So it's a tradeoff, like everything else in life.

What do you think?

[zboy1]

I think a good case in point is this forum: 50% of HA members want stricter moderating and more people banned, while 50% want the forum to stay relatively open and free of political correctness.

That's why it's so hard to be a good moderator on this forum because people will bitch either way...

[abcdavid01]

Oh absolutely. That's why I think government should be a meritocracy. Instead we let every idiot participate - and I'm not so arrogant to think I'm not part of that mass in some ways either.

[PeterAndrewNolan]

Hi Winston,
I went through Michaels work in detail nearly 6 years ago now. His atlantis book is a must read. That is the book that puts it ALL together in one volume. If you haven't read it? Get a copy and read it. And you might want to encourage your subs to do so as well.

One of the things Michael said long ago was "most people do not want to be "saved" and perhaps that is their fate....are we to interfere in their fate? Who knows?"

It was a very interesting comment. In the west no more than 0.3% of men actually want to live in freedom. They much prefer the "security" of "guvmint". This is a result of the genetic engineering...men were engineered to be compliant slaves and the Illuminati know just how to make them that way......fear.

As Aldus huxley said "the weapon of choice has always been fear".

This is why you have eternal damnation and fire and brimstone in the religions...to create fear. All Illuminati control systems are based on fear no matter what that fear is. Fear of loss is a standard one which is why you have a system of "fines". The "fine" representing a fear of loss.

This is why men like me, who have been suicidal and do not even fear the loss of our lives, are completely uncontrollable by the Illuminati. They can not instil any fear in to us...and once they have no lever to instil fear they are completely at a loss to control us in any way, shape or form.

You can see how few men want to live in freedom when you look at the response to the MBA. The response is very slow. Men are in fear that if they step out of the control grid of the guvmint then the guvmint might steal something from them....fear of loss.....so they stay in the control gird and accept the loss of freedom because they fear a greater loss.

Thus we have started MRIBA.biz as a "half way" house. MRIBA operates under the jurisdiction of the Fiji Government and legislation. So men can use MRIBA to do business without fear of loss or attack by their own government. All operations of MRIBA are lawful and legal so that those men who are too fearful to step out of the system all together like I did can have a half way house of stepping out of their local system and operating in the Jurisdiction of the Fiji Government.

It is platos cave in effect....men do not want to leave platos cave....I am sure you know that one, right?

[Mr Natural]

in the ancient past, people had inherent traits such as passion, virtue and glory

They did? According to who? I doubt if most people ever wanted freedom over security and it's no different now.
We know from the mainstream media depictions of recent events that what we have been told of history is always suspect, so it's hard to be certain. But it looks to me like the overwhelming majority of people have always been simpletons whose thoughts and intentions were mostly about survival and everyday life, with some entertainment in between. Philosophers and free thinkers have always been rare. You are just more aware of them now because of the tremendous advances in communications and the fact you choose to use them the way you do. Think of all the things you know today and then think of how much different that would be without the internet, without electronics in general like radio and tv, without even the printing press. None of these things were around for the majority of human history, but even now that they are, look at what most people use them for. Seems mostly moronic entertainment or porn. As knowledgeable as you are Winston, I'm surprised that you are surprised about this.

As for thinking everyone else is like me, what a depressing thought! Because that would mean I was like everyone else. If I were a religious person I would pray everyday for that not to be so.

[zacb]

I have been feeling this way. I mean, how can you legitimately agree to hand your birth right as a human to people you have never met, and agree to give them a monopoly on force? Just seems nuts.

[Taco]

I think these things are true. However, in the ancient past, people had inherent traits such as passion, virtue and glory, that we are missing today.

In the past men were much more aggressive and protective than they are now. The ancient Vikings and Samurai warriors had a very fierce reputation. Today the men in Japan and Scandinavia are among the most passive thanks to the miracle of social engineering. Most of these guys would rather play computer games than conquer foreign lands and have completely lost interest in woman and marriage.

Not only do people hate freedom they also hate the truth. As the biblical saying goes, "The truth will set you free". The further away a society gets from the truth the more resistant they are to it. For example, there's ample evidence to suggest the US economy is on its ass but no one really cares until
they lose their job.

Norwegian Mass Murder Refuses To Eat Until He Gets A New Playstation
http://disinfo.com/2014/02/norwegian-ma ... et-access/

The one who tells the truth is never the most popular at the party. – Anonymous

[Wolfeye]

I don't think any of those points are true (except for yours at the end ,Winston). Notice that when these points are asserted, it clashes with people. It's not abnormal to COLLABORATE with other people, but being servile is a bit against the grain. Living in a state of substitution, that someone is hi-jacking your life, is not normal at all. In fact, demonic possession runs along the exact same lines & that's not considered a good thing. This is true of the ancient times & the current age- it's basically someone being eroded out of their lives. What's odd is that some people worry about being killed, but don't hold this type of thing in a threatening esteem.

As far as ancient cultures go, personal autonomy is not at all a weird thing. Look at tribes from all over the world- these cultures are ancient in a way that far exceeds Ancient Greece or Rome. These cultures thrived for thousands of years & had a general trend of working together. A major point is that someone's individual creativity or bravery might very well save the whole tribe in disaster's or conflicts. Lean times happened, but people had charity (not to the point of fanaticism, but helpfulness). Someone would strive for proficiency when they were younger so they could do things successfully when they were older & this was applauded a well as helped along. Imagine if there's a famine because the pass the herds usually traveled through was blocked: Someone (or, more likely, a group) would go out & scout for other passes that the hunters could use to get to the herds. The women would get their preserved food & equipment ready- sewing up warm clothes wasn't an act of servility, it was just mutual support. Bringing back the meat wasn't keeping parasites alive, it was saving their people from starvation.

By-the-way: These people were attacked by other cultures with a mixture of subversion & direct confrontation, so that "Well, if it was so great why did it change?" question (that's meant to point out some mysterious flaw in those cultures) doesn't really apply. Sometimes the drive of a culture is very antagonistic & they act something like woodchippers. Their culture might be to erode, supplant, torment, and otherwise vitiate another culture. These kinds of people might very well have had a "bending your finger back further for more points" type of philosophy. Acting like it's superior due to being contradictive as a baseline & attacking all who argue.

I don't remember the exact tribe, but someone had asked if they had headmen there & the guy they asked said "Well, yeah- everyone is head of themselves." I think that's why the Americans had such a huge problem with the Indians, because freedom has always been a bit of advertised value & then it wouldn't show up in real life. They were exceedingly cruel with the native tribes, but they were also very slow to abolish slavery, women didn't get much in the way of rights with anything (bodily autonomy, employment options, voting, etc...), and someone that was working-class was basically the level of a serf. The people that actually were the "real deal" in the realm of freedom & independence & all that were always the ones to get royally screwed. It still IS that way- for the most part. Someone's charged as a terrorist or for doing something linked to that type of situation for nothing here (I even read a case where a teenage boy was arrested for having a disposable lighter- it was considered an explosive device). There was another one where a deaf girl was suspended for using sign language- this was considered a danger to the other students! Picking on deaf kids & acting like it's being protective to do so.

[Winston]

in the ancient past, people had inherent traits such as passion, virtue and glory

They did? According to who? I doubt if most people ever wanted freedom over security and it's no different now.

It's obvious. Read the ancient texts from the Roman Empire, Medieval Europe, etc. Read what Alexander, Caesar and Napoleon wrote. Even the Bible makes this obvious. Ancient people were very passionate about their beliefs and were willing to kill for them and die for them. They passionately worshipped their king too. The Britains said "For king and country!" for example. They alternated between extreme hate and extreme love. You can see this in the Bible too. If you read Napoleon's memoirs, you will see that he was very deep and complex too, not just passionate. What leaders are like that today?

In Victorian England, people were proud to have virtue. It was in their culture. And it was an honor to be virtuous. It's what they lived for. They didn't have perfect morals of course. But they were virtuous compared to people today. Modern Americans don't have virtue. That's for sure. The degenerates around you know nothing about virtue. Neither do the self-absorbed youth in America.

American's Founding Fathers such as Thomas Jefferson and George Washington, had virtuous principles and were very passionate about them, as we all know. American politicians and presidents today are nothing like them and have no virtue at all, but just bullshit.

Ancient people fought wars for glory, as well as conquest, plunder, honor, etc. They were passionate about their glory. Today, modern Americans are like soulless beings just going through the motions. They seem to have no feeling, emotion or passion. Even movie and TV characters in America are like this. You know that. Come on. It's so obvious. Why doubt it?

We know from the mainstream media depictions of recent events that what we have been told of history is always suspect, so it's hard to be certain. But it looks to me like the overwhelming majority of people have always been simpletons whose thoughts and intentions were mostly about survival and everyday life, with some entertainment in between. Philosophers and free thinkers have always been rare. You are just more aware of them now because of the tremendous advances in communications and the fact you choose to use them the way you do. Think of all the things you know today and then think of how much different that would be without the internet, without electronics in general like radio and tv, without even the printing press. None of these things were around for the majority of human history, but even now that they are, look at what most people use them for. Seems mostly moronic entertainment or p**n. As knowledgeable as you are Winston, I'm surprised that you are surprised about this.

This is true. But you also have to keep in mind that ancient people were not isolated. They congregated in town squares everyday and socialized with others. So they got a lot of knowledge and info from others. People were a true collective. They were not isolated. Isolation is only in modern industrial culture. They did not need dating sites. They could easily go out and meet people. It was natural and part of the flow. Even today, people in Europe can go out and meet people without having to use dating sites, because their cultures are more social. It's not like America where people put up a hostile shield around them and are paranoid of others and thus isolate themselves, or limit their interactions to a small clique of people they trust.

As for thinking everyone else is like me, what a depressing thought! Because that would mean I was like everyone else. If I were a religious person I would pray everyday for that not to be so.

Yeah but it's a common fallacy to assume that others think, feel and perceive the way you do. It's part of human nature to assume that.

[Ghost]

.

[PeterAndrewNolan]

It's obvious. Read the ancient texts from the Roman Empire, Medieval Europe, etc. Read what Alexander, Caesar and Napoleon wrote. Even the Bible makes this obvious. Ancient people were very passionate about their beliefs and were willing to kill for them and die for them. They passionately worshipped their king too. The Britains said "For king and country!" for example. They alternated between extreme hate and extreme love. You can see this in the Bible too. If you read Napoleon's memoirs, you will see that he was very deep and complex too, not just passionate. What leaders are like that today?

Winston,
do not forget that people in the past were just as mind controlled as people today. They had these things instilled in to them by the Illuminati down from sumarian times.

Sure, other societies were not similarly brainwashed by the Illuminati but they has similar social structures which tends to support the atlantis and lemuria theories of a global civilisation operating on similar principles before the war between atlantis and lemuria.

How else could the social structures of different continents be so similar if atlantis and lemuria were not real.

We were genetically engineered a very long time ago.....Tsarion pins it at 150,000 years but admits it could be longer. It is obviously impossible to know...so as part of the genetic engineering we were created to be more compliant as slaves...it is only the few who break that programming.

Guys like George Washington and the founding fathers were the minions of the Illuminati. The "virtues" they exhibited were the normal "hide evil being a virtuous front" rather like paedophiles like to hang out as catholic priests.

Those who claim to be the most virtuous are usually the most evil.

[PeterAndrewNolan]

Freedom means having to think for oneself and be responsible for oneself. That is why so few desire it. Unless human psychology changes, the world will never change. Which is to say that we will never live in a free world.

I live in a free world...or as nearly free as is possible at the current point in time...the last thing I need to get working is the world passport and I am still working on that...

Just because other people live as slaves that does not mean I need to live as a slave. Nor you.

[momopi]

The Ancient Era or Ancient History is defined as the period from when Humans wrote recorded history, to early Middle Ages. What we're looking for here is actually prehistory, such as the Stone Age. It's not difficult to imagine that those who belonged to a group, and functioned better within the group had higher survival rate to pass on their genes than outcasts. If you're in a hunter-gatherer group, you had specific roles to play to contribute to the success and survival of your group (or tribe). You can hunt, fish, weave, make spear heads, gather edibles, whatever. While you're free to question your roles and expectations until the cows come home, if you did not contribute and perform according to group expectations because you want to be "free", you become dead weight to the group.

On the flip side, it's said that those who confirm to expectations are reasonable people, and those who did not are unreasonable people. Thus change comes from unreasonable people. Given a hunter gatherer tribe that hunts with spears, an unreasonable hunter insists that his "spear thrower" invention is superior and goes against the tradition or group norms. If he is able to show that his "spear thrower" (atlatl) is able to propel the spear further and result in more successful hunts, then he will improve the group's success and survival.

[tre]

No, people today do NOT like true freedom. The majority expects the government to enforce their own ideas about how things should be, how people should live, etc.. They want protection from those that "offend" them.

It's kinda like how a few members wanted Admin to remove contributing members who offended them. These members should have just ignored those that offended them, but they wanted those in power to punish/remove those who offend them instead. They wanted enforcement by the forum "government".

This is just ONE example of so many. This is why the world is f***ed and much of the fault lies on the people who think this way....

[Mr Natural]

Freedom means having to think for oneself and be responsible for oneself. That is why so few desire it.

Ain't that the truth! Being a conformist and part of the group is and always has been easier. I maintain that philosophers and free thinkers have always been rarities, the overwhelming majority of people have always been sheep who followed the herd. Citing exceptions like Alexander, Caesar, Napoleon, Jefferson, Washington, the Samurai, etc just proves the point. Those people and those like them weren't normal or average at all.