Can you really blame someone for being weak willed?

[Boner_Jones]

Is will a choice? I mean… can you really blame someone… for having weak will?

I mean… you could say "don't be hard on him, he can't help being weak.. that is who he is, he is a head case, he has issues,etc.... it's his nature"

so then he is blameless…right?

but OTOH… you could also say about him "what an idiot! he chooses to be weak willed...if he only tried he wouldn't be such a weak person"

so in this case… you ARE blaming him… cause you are really saying: he CHOOSES being weak over strong.

So then... you are implying... nature is no excuse for laziness or poor performance.. ANYONE can be straight A students... or have a great high paying job... and can follow through on most anything. if only they want to.

WTF... i'm so confused…

[samurai_panda]

We all make choices. Even bad people can choose to do good. But the inner strength to do the right thing as to come within yourself.

The action has to be sincere. The most courageous thing one can do is to confront their fears and learn from the experience.

Will is not taught, I truly believe it comes from one's own heart to succeed despite the obstacles.

Everyone has goodness and darkness within themselves. It's just a matter of which path you choose to go down.

[Boner_Jones]

yeah but... where does the 'inner strength" come from?

I mean... no offense but... your answer kinda sucks. I mean... it doesn't answer the question...

Everyone WANTS to have "inner strength" - who doesn't?

And everyone WANTS to have the will...to do what they have to do.

But... i guess my point is: its not enough to WANT something

or even... to WANT to have the WILL to do something...

what is link between WANTING and DOING?

[samurai_panda]

Fine. Let me simplify it for you.

You either DO IT or you DON'T.

People like you are afraid of failure. That's why you're miserable.

Grow some courage and just do it. You won't regret it.

You'll regret not doing it in the first place. So why not?

[Boner_Jones]

aw shit man.. your 2 for 2 now... you still don't get my question... i'm not asking for personal advice,

i don't need a motivational coach, thats why I didn't post this in 'advice", get it?

I'm asking a scientific question.. so I need...an objective answer...

it's a philosophical question... going down deep into the roots.. of one's nature.

what really is 'will'?

[momopi]

When you're a kid and someone puts a chocolate cake in front of you, you might eat so much of it that your stomach aches afterwards. Or, if you saw a handicapped kid in a wheelchair, you might make fun of him because you didn't know better.

As an adult, you know not to eat too much junk food because it's not healthy for you and it makes you obese. When you interact with someone who stutters when speaking, you treat his disability with some measure of sensitivity. When you see someone involved in a car accident, you don't make fun of the victims. This is all part of becoming an adult and learning how to be a person.

Someone with a negative compulsive behavior, such as kleptomania, has an obvious metal disorder. In comparison, another person who knows that he is fat and need exercise, but doesn't want to get off the couch, is simply lazy. The first requires professional medical help, the second, needs a swift kick in the ass.

[Boner_Jones]

When you're a kid and someone puts a chocolate cake in front of you, you might eat so much of it that your stomach aches afterwards. Or, if you saw a handicapped kid in a wheelchair, you might make fun of him because you didn't know better.

As an adult, you know not to eat too much junk food because it's not healthy for you and it makes you obese. When you interact with someone who stutters when speaking, you treat his disability with some measure of sensitivity. When you see someone involved in a car accident, you don't make fun of the victims. This is all part of becoming an adult and learning how to be a person.

Someone with a negative compulsive behavior, such as kleptomania, has an obvious metal disorder. In comparison, another person who knows that he is fat and need exercise, but doesn't want to get off the couch, is simply lazy. The first requires professional medical help, the second, needs a swift kick in the ass.

So if: will = desire + effort

then... if your a klepto you are not to blame for stealing.. cause you COULD desire not to steal but... you can't summon the will to not steal? cause its some defect inside your head.. preventing your will to behave?

so... did Clinton (or sex addicts) have a negative compulsive behavior? cause i heard people say... he has issues inside his head... he needs professional help. But then i heard others say... he's to blame..because... he is a smart man, he knows he shouldn't break his marriage vows but... he chased women anyway

[samurai_panda]

Willpower takes self-discipline. Many people lack patience, wisdom, and insight to control themselves and think before they act. Human beings are emotional creatures.

Crimes of passion happen because people get overly angry and attack without reason.

Will comes from the heart. Will comes from deep within. Maybe that sounds too spiritual or New Age shit for you, but I truly believe science can't explain everything.

Matters of the heart are uniquely humanistic and spiritual.

Scientific method can hypothesize and conclude these nuts son.

[Boner_Jones]

As an adult, you know not to eat too much junk food because it's not healthy for you and it makes you obese.

yeah but... lots of adults still eat junk food anyway.. or they drink too much.. or they do drugs like coke/heroin/etc... and they are not retarded or brain defected, they have normal or above average intelligence...

and... lots of them WANT not to do those things.... but they do it anyway

so... why do they do what they know to be bad? Mental disorder? then they cannot be blamed...

[Billy]

boner_jones, I am with you with that but it depends on how you define blaming. I see thinks like action and reaction. blaming and science don´t work well together. Science defines beings more or less like computers. So blaming is out of question. Blaming is an old school tactic to change behaviors. but modern societies work with more accurate tools like building proper habits which is used in schooling and so on.


To free will: no there is no free will imho.

[Boner_Jones]

imo the problem is… we are creatures of EMOTION.

Without emotion there are no morals, no ethics.

Without emotion… actions and results would not be "good" or "bad". They would be… i don't know. hmm… "optimum" and "sub-optimum"?

And without emotion… there is no such thing as "blame". And no such thing as "praise" either…

because… both words are like 'good' and 'bad'... they have to do with emotions...

'blaming" really means: hurting the person's emotions…

just like "praising" means: comforting the person's emotions...

So… take emotions out of the equation and… 'blaming' and 'praising' are meaningless words...

[Boner_Jones]

So... if we were objective... why do people behave in ways... that hurt themselves... that are not in their self-interest?

some people will say: 'Oh they are lazy'... 'they don't work hard'.. 'they are degenerate", "have a low character" etc. blah blah blah...

These are the moralists... the ones who believe in morals, ethics, good and evil...

so.. they blame... because their emotions are stirred up... in anger and annoyance

and the ones they blame... become hurt emotionally.

So... emotions play a part in blaming and getting blamed... it is unavoidable

[Boner_Jones]

But... why? why do people act against their self interest?

is it that... they are reacting naturally... to what is unnatural and fake? advanced civilization?

But.. didn't primitive cultures have their misfits... miscreants.. oddballs? people who acted against the tribe... the community?

just brainstorming ideas

[Boner_Jones]

i just thought of something.

isn't' all these 'isms' like... sexism or racism... or ageism or any ism... emotion based?

I mean... these words exist because... people are by nature emotional.

And... when someone is racist or sexist... you are offending that person. IOW you are making that person angry... sad... hurt.. annoyed..

i mean... your definitely not eliciting... happy emotions.

Isn't' that why 'racism' and "sexism" are in the dictionary because... we are offending someone, provoking emotions of anger?

So.. if we didn't' have emotions.... then 'racism' and 'sexism' would be like 'good' and 'evil'... or 'blame' and 'praise'... meaningless words. They are all dependent on... the existence of emotions...

[momopi]

As an adult, you know not to eat too much junk food because it's not healthy for you and it makes you obese.

yeah but... lots of adults still eat junk food anyway.. or they drink too much.. or they do drugs like coke/heroin/etc... and they are not retarded or brain defected, they have normal or above average intelligence...
and... lots of them WANT not to do those things.... but they do it anyway
so... why do they do what they know to be bad? Mental disorder? then they cannot be blamed...

Sure, I eat junk food like doughnuts. But I have the good sense to know that I shouldn't eat 6 of them just because they're in a box.

There are people with compulsive eating disorders who would clean out the whole box, then feel guilty about it, until they get their hands on another box, and the cycle repeats. That, is obviously unhealthy by common sense.