True Freedom = No Job, Marriage, Children or Mortgage

[NorthAmericanguy]

But nevertheless, your children are YOUR responsibility because you had them, so you have to endure all this for 20 years or more in order to be a proper parent. Once you have them, you are expected to be locked into the monotonous routine of daily life with them, in order to raise them and be there for them.

By the time your kids grow up and move out, you will be old, over the hill, have health problems, be no longer attractive to the opposite sex, and everything will go down from there as you wait to die. In effect, you will have given away the best years of your adult life to raise children. And what will you get for it? A pat on the back from them, and a "thanks for being a good parent", none of which will bring back your lost years.

In that sense, children are the ultimate scam of nature upon parents, albeit a necessary one, for our species cannot continue without them. Thus, Mother Nature has to trick you into feeling empty and incomplete without them, hardwiring it into your DNA. Otherwise you'd never have kids. Technically you will lose a lot but gain nothing from them. It's a totally raw deal for parents, but they must be programmed to want kids, lest the human race become extinct. (unless some future mass artificial insemination becomes the norm, as depicted in scary sci fi films)

And of course, kids will require the stable environment of a home and marriage to raise, which will further tie you down and lock you into a long-term routine in one place, not allowing you to travel or explore as your heart desires. Again, all this compounds to completely remove all freedom from your life, day or night.

So, unless your life is truly empty without children, and you are a very selfless and self-sacrificing person who is willing to give a lot of attention to a child, and you love children so much that you can't live without them, you should consider the consequences above. Otherwise, you will be done for and suffer in misery everyday while you have all your freedom taken away, in exchange for nothing and no ROI (return on investment). It will be the worst thing that's ever happened to you and the BIGGEST MISTAKE of your life! The only way out would be to give up your child for adoption, or become a deadbeat dad. Otherwise, you will face years of regret, and your patience and tolerance will be constantly stretched beyond their limits, all for nothing - no gain, no profit, no reward, no fun, no pleasure, no peace of mind, no intellectual stimulation, etc. except for maybe the love they give you back. If that is fine to you, then more power to you. But when you analyze it logically, it makes no sense and seems like a trick of Mother Nature to perpetuate the species.

Keep in mind that unlike other big life decisions, children CANNOT be undone. You can get a job and quit it. You can marry and divorce. You can get a house and sell it and move. You can quit college and continue later. But you cannot undo children once you have them. So treat this like the most utmost decision in your life!

I agree.^^

I know of a 27 year old woman who was a life long friend of mine; she married up the social ladder to well off guy (her wedding cost 40-50k).

Well, a few months ago she had her first baby and I found out from her family that my life long friend and her husband were both were shocked at all the difficulty it takes in raising a child; and because of that they will NOT have another one.

They said they can't do what they want anymore because the baby is always in need of attention and they have no more time to enjoy their lives.

I feel sorry for them because I feel they were scammed into having a baby. The family put pressure on them to have a baby and pop out "grandkids", but what's going on now is that since the novelty of a little baby has worn off and all the pictures are taken, the grandparents have abandoned their role and left the two of them alone to raise the child.

That's not right, somebody should have told them the difficulties in raising a child instead of painting the brush that it's easy. Also, young people should be told the option that it's ok to live child free as an adult.

[swincor]

But nevertheless, your children are YOUR responsibility because you had them, so you have to endure all this for 20 years or more in order to be a proper parent. Once you have them, you are expected to be locked into the monotonous routine of daily life with them, in order to raise them and be there for them.

By the time your kids grow up and move out, you will be old, over the hill, have health problems, be no longer attractive to the opposite sex, and everything will go down from there as you wait to die. In effect, you will have given away the best years of your adult life to raise children. And what will you get for it? A pat on the back from them, and a "thanks for being a good parent", none of which will bring back your lost years.

In that sense, children are the ultimate scam of nature upon parents, albeit a necessary one, for our species cannot continue without them. Thus, Mother Nature has to trick you into feeling empty and incomplete without them, hardwiring it into your DNA. Otherwise you'd never have kids. Technically you will lose a lot but gain nothing from them. It's a totally raw deal for parents, but they must be programmed to want kids, lest the human race become extinct. (unless some future mass artificial insemination becomes the norm, as depicted in scary sci fi films)

And of course, kids will require the stable environment of a home and marriage to raise, which will further tie you down and lock you into a long-term routine in one place, not allowing you to travel or explore as your heart desires. Again, all this compounds to completely remove all freedom from your life, day or night.

So, unless your life is truly empty without children, and you are a very selfless and self-sacrificing person who is willing to give a lot of attention to a child, and you love children so much that you can't live without them, you should consider the consequences above. Otherwise, you will be done for and suffer in misery everyday while you have all your freedom taken away, in exchange for nothing and no ROI (return on investment). It will be the worst thing that's ever happened to you and the BIGGEST MISTAKE of your life! The only way out would be to give up your child for adoption, or become a deadbeat dad. Otherwise, you will face years of regret, and your patience and tolerance will be constantly stretched beyond their limits, all for nothing - no gain, no profit, no reward, no fun, no pleasure, no peace of mind, no intellectual stimulation, etc. except for maybe the love they give you back. If that is fine to you, then more power to you. But when you analyze it logically, it makes no sense and seems like a trick of Mother Nature to perpetuate the species.

Keep in mind that unlike other big life decisions, children CANNOT be undone. You can get a job and quit it. You can marry and divorce. You can get a house and sell it and move. You can quit college and continue later. But you cannot undo children once you have them. So treat this like the most utmost decision in your life!

I agree.^^

I know of a 27 year old woman who was a life long friend of mine; she married up the social ladder to well off guy (her wedding cost 40-50k).

Well, a few months ago she had her first baby and I found out from her family that my life long friend and her husband were both were shocked at all the difficulty it takes in raising a child; and because of that they will NOT have another one.

They said they can't do what they want anymore because the baby is always in need of attention and they have no more time to enjoy their lives.

I feel sorry for them because I feel they were scammed into having a baby. The family put pressure on them to have a baby and pop out "grandkids", but what's going on now is that since the novelty of a little baby has worn off and all the pictures are taken, the grandparents have abandoned their role and left the two of them alone to raise the child.

That's not right, somebody should have told them the difficulties in raising a child instead of painting the brush that it's easy. Also, young people should be told the option that it's ok to live child free as an adult.

It is true that Winston was a brain-dead moron for having a child. Nevertheless, society needs couples who are willing to sacrifice their fun and leisure to pop out babies and raise them. The fact is, the west faces a demographics crisis, in which the birth rates of almost all developed countries are below replacement levels. The repercussions will be dire, affecting all areas of society for the worse.

[lavezzi]

Winston's post epitomizes everything that is wrong with modern humans. Although he believes contrarily, he is a total conformist because he is taken in by the industrialized world's notion that happiness is achieved through momentary joy from external sources. True happiness is exclusively an internal thing. Outside forces can only aid your interior growth, relying on them solitarily for contentment only presents an illusion of happiness. Which might sustain long enough to last a lifetime of indulgence, but it does not take into account anyone else's well-being and therefore blocks out all benevolence.

Humans are compassionate beings by nature, but when exposed to an 'every man for themselves' type of environment, this nature diminishes. It seems to be getting to the point where immediate family is being seen solely as a burden to one's own all-important pleasure. Which endangers what is truly important above all else; the foundation of life.

[NorthAmericanguy]

But nevertheless, your children are YOUR responsibility because you had them, so you have to endure all this for 20 years or more in order to be a proper parent. Once you have them, you are expected to be locked into the monotonous routine of daily life with them, in order to raise them and be there for them.

By the time your kids grow up and move out, you will be old, over the hill, have health problems, be no longer attractive to the opposite sex, and everything will go down from there as you wait to die. In effect, you will have given away the best years of your adult life to raise children. And what will you get for it? A pat on the back from them, and a "thanks for being a good parent", none of which will bring back your lost years.

In that sense, children are the ultimate scam of nature upon parents, albeit a necessary one, for our species cannot continue without them. Thus, Mother Nature has to trick you into feeling empty and incomplete without them, hardwiring it into your DNA. Otherwise you'd never have kids. Technically you will lose a lot but gain nothing from them. It's a totally raw deal for parents, but they must be programmed to want kids, lest the human race become extinct. (unless some future mass artificial insemination becomes the norm, as depicted in scary sci fi films)

And of course, kids will require the stable environment of a home and marriage to raise, which will further tie you down and lock you into a long-term routine in one place, not allowing you to travel or explore as your heart desires. Again, all this compounds to completely remove all freedom from your life, day or night.

So, unless your life is truly empty without children, and you are a very selfless and self-sacrificing person who is willing to give a lot of attention to a child, and you love children so much that you can't live without them, you should consider the consequences above. Otherwise, you will be done for and suffer in misery everyday while you have all your freedom taken away, in exchange for nothing and no ROI (return on investment). It will be the worst thing that's ever happened to you and the BIGGEST MISTAKE of your life! The only way out would be to give up your child for adoption, or become a deadbeat dad. Otherwise, you will face years of regret, and your patience and tolerance will be constantly stretched beyond their limits, all for nothing - no gain, no profit, no reward, no fun, no pleasure, no peace of mind, no intellectual stimulation, etc. except for maybe the love they give you back. If that is fine to you, then more power to you. But when you analyze it logically, it makes no sense and seems like a trick of Mother Nature to perpetuate the species.

Keep in mind that unlike other big life decisions, children CANNOT be undone. You can get a job and quit it. You can marry and divorce. You can get a house and sell it and move. You can quit college and continue later. But you cannot undo children once you have them. So treat this like the most utmost decision in your life!

I agree.^^

I know of a 27 year old woman who was a life long friend of mine; she married up the social ladder to well off guy (her wedding cost 40-50k).

Well, a few months ago she had her first baby and I found out from her family that my life long friend and her husband were both were shocked at all the difficulty it takes in raising a child; and because of that they will NOT have another one.

They said they can't do what they want anymore because the baby is always in need of attention and they have no more time to enjoy their lives.

I feel sorry for them because I feel they were scammed into having a baby. The family put pressure on them to have a baby and pop out "grandkids", but what's going on now is that since the novelty of a little baby has worn off and all the pictures are taken, the grandparents have abandoned their role and left the two of them alone to raise the child.

That's not right, somebody should have told them the difficulties in raising a child instead of painting the brush that it's easy. Also, young people should be told the option that it's ok to live child free as an adult.

It is true that Winston was a brain-dead moron for having a child. Nevertheless, society needs couples who are willing to sacrifice their fun and leisure to pop out babies and raise them. The fact is, the west faces a demographics crisis, in which the birth rates of almost all developed countries are below replacement levels. The repercussions will be dire, affecting all areas of society for the worse.

Going by the birth rates, people from South America will be taking over North America. Whites, blacks and Asians will either move away or absorb into the culture. In fact, I have a good Korean friend who told me Koreans moving to America are now learning Spanish in the West Coast.

I really don't believe the situation will be dire, societies change, languages change, governments change, currency chances... ect...
http://www.mapsofwar.com/images/EMPIRE17.swf

It's just part of life, and if you ask me, South Americans are better suited to raise families being that they understand the concept better then American whites, or the fact that they have not sustained massive male abandonment in their homes like American blacks.

[NorthAmericanguy]

Humans are compassionate beings by nature

I disagree. I believe that human beings are aggressive/evil by nature, therefore religious principles/ basic ethics were set up in the remote past to install some type of humanity into humans (some ancient text say the Gods came down and gave it to us). Religion later on was twisted and used (it was bound to happen) as another tool to conquer people.

. It seems to be getting to the point where immediate family is being seen solely as a burden to one's own all-important pleasure.

Children are a burden in MODERN society because from the ages of 1-18 they can't contribute anyway to the family nor can they take care of themselves. Then from the ages of 18 into old age, most kids decide to use their labor to help everybody else but their own family.


So what's the point? Parents are sacrificing their lives to raise healthy young adults who will then use their labor to make Burger King, the sex industry, the military, or the government rich, all while the parents have to scramble around and try and figure out how they are going to retire.


Edit: What needs to happen is the elimination of compulsorily education and children need to start working in their respective field at young ages because they can do it. For example, I believe that a 15 year old should be able to get a job at a hospital and apprentice with the head doctor (this is how it was done in the past). In doing so, a child can learn to take care of itself much earlier in life, and be able to contribute his or her immediate family.

[well-informed]

@ Haybo

Don't worry about Winston, he only had his son for selfish reasons "to extend his great natural birthright given by god to procreate and leave his legacy in this world." Problem is that legacy will be nothing but a dumbass bastard child that won't grow up to ever be a man. Aka kind of like those manginas here in the US that have been raised by single moms all their lives. Winston doesn't even have the guts or sympathy to even defend his own child, that justs shows who he is as a dad. But enough of him

Troll type # 83 in this forum - An american woman that by golly is nothing like an american woman. Yes the classic "i'm not like them"

Well fact of the matter, who cares. Even if you are a good person, it doesn't matter in the broad scope of things. Should we look at american women as angels now, just because your different.

Are you changing the fact that misandry in the US is absolutely rampant
How about the p***y pass that women get in court cases constantly
Whats the point of getting married here, should i just flip a coin at the alter and hope she doesn't end up leaving me
Women pointing out equality only when it suits them and many other things that are too long to list

You're not a guy, so you will never know what guys go through here. So why should you come here and tell that the men that leave this country are ball-less losers that can't handle women. Trust me the guys here in the forum are not like Winston. Heck i would say most of us would want to be married ourselves with a good woman, it's just not ideal to do so with an american female.

So if you have something useful to say then say it, otherwise don't speak.

[The_Hero_of_Men]

@ Haybo

Don't worry about Winston, he only had his son for selfish reasons "to extend his great natural birthright given by god to procreate and leave his legacy in this world." Problem is that legacy will be nothing but a dumbass bastard child that won't grow up to ever be a man. Aka kind of like those manginas here in the US that have been raised by single moms all their lives. Winston doesn't even have the guts or sympathy to even defend his own child, that justs shows who he is as a dad. But enough of him

Troll type # 83 in this forum - An american woman that by golly is nothing like an american woman. Yes the classic "i'm not like them"

Well fact of the matter, who cares. Even if you are a good person, it doesn't matter in the broad scope of things. Should we look at american women as angels now, just because your different.

Are you changing the fact that misandry in the US is absolutely rampant
How about the p***y pass that women get in court cases constantly
Whats the point of getting married here, should i just flip a coin at the alter and hope she doesn't end up leaving me
Women pointing out equality only when it suits them and many other things that are too long to list

You're not a guy, so you will never know what guys go through here. So why should you come here and tell that the men that leave this country are ball-less losers that can't handle women. Trust me the guys here in the forum are not like Winston. Heck i would say most of us would want to be married ourselves with a good woman, it's just not ideal to do so with an american female.

So if you have something useful to say then say it, otherwise don't speak.

You totally OWNED/PWNED her, dude!! I liked that!

[ladislav]

Going by the birth rates, people from South America will be taking over North America. Whites, blacks and Asians will either move away or absorb into the culture. In fact, I have a good Korean friend who told me Koreans moving to America are now learning Spanish in the West Coast.

Spanish only persists for one generation. And half-assedly for another. The Anglo Saxon cultural matrix is very powerful. Think about this- only some 20% of Americans are WASPs, most of those who are mainstream Americans, are not Anglos bloodwise. They assimilated. For example, where I live in Palm Springs, the majority of the people are classified as Hispanics, but they are not Spanish speaking. The only difference between them and Anglos is that the hair is a bit darker and they act Catholic, not Protestant if you know what I mean. Normally they are very humble, polite and respectful to others. So, Latin Americans will not turn the US into another Mexico or Atztlan. They will simply become HASCs- Hispanic Anglo Saxon Catholic and as American as anyone else. Less divorce, better families, a more polite environment overall. It is a welcome change that will save America, not ruin it.

[swincor]

But nevertheless, your children are YOUR responsibility because you had them, so you have to endure all this for 20 years or more in order to be a proper parent. Once you have them, you are expected to be locked into the monotonous routine of daily life with them, in order to raise them and be there for them.

By the time your kids grow up and move out, you will be old, over the hill, have health problems, be no longer attractive to the opposite sex, and everything will go down from there as you wait to die. In effect, you will have given away the best years of your adult life to raise children. And what will you get for it? A pat on the back from them, and a "thanks for being a good parent", none of which will bring back your lost years.

In that sense, children are the ultimate scam of nature upon parents, albeit a necessary one, for our species cannot continue without them. Thus, Mother Nature has to trick you into feeling empty and incomplete without them, hardwiring it into your DNA. Otherwise you'd never have kids. Technically you will lose a lot but gain nothing from them. It's a totally raw deal for parents, but they must be programmed to want kids, lest the human race become extinct. (unless some future mass artificial insemination becomes the norm, as depicted in scary sci fi films)

And of course, kids will require the stable environment of a home and marriage to raise, which will further tie you down and lock you into a long-term routine in one place, not allowing you to travel or explore as your heart desires. Again, all this compounds to completely remove all freedom from your life, day or night.

So, unless your life is truly empty without children, and you are a very selfless and self-sacrificing person who is willing to give a lot of attention to a child, and you love children so much that you can't live without them, you should consider the consequences above. Otherwise, you will be done for and suffer in misery everyday while you have all your freedom taken away, in exchange for nothing and no ROI (return on investment). It will be the worst thing that's ever happened to you and the BIGGEST MISTAKE of your life! The only way out would be to give up your child for adoption, or become a deadbeat dad. Otherwise, you will face years of regret, and your patience and tolerance will be constantly stretched beyond their limits, all for nothing - no gain, no profit, no reward, no fun, no pleasure, no peace of mind, no intellectual stimulation, etc. except for maybe the love they give you back. If that is fine to you, then more power to you. But when you analyze it logically, it makes no sense and seems like a trick of Mother Nature to perpetuate the species.

Keep in mind that unlike other big life decisions, children CANNOT be undone. You can get a job and quit it. You can marry and divorce. You can get a house and sell it and move. You can quit college and continue later. But you cannot undo children once you have them. So treat this like the most utmost decision in your life!

I agree.^^

I know of a 27 year old woman who was a life long friend of mine; she married up the social ladder to well off guy (her wedding cost 40-50k).

Well, a few months ago she had her first baby and I found out from her family that my life long friend and her husband were both were shocked at all the difficulty it takes in raising a child; and because of that they will NOT have another one.

They said they can't do what they want anymore because the baby is always in need of attention and they have no more time to enjoy their lives.

I feel sorry for them because I feel they were scammed into having a baby. The family put pressure on them to have a baby and pop out "grandkids", but what's going on now is that since the novelty of a little baby has worn off and all the pictures are taken, the grandparents have abandoned their role and left the two of them alone to raise the child.

That's not right, somebody should have told them the difficulties in raising a child instead of painting the brush that it's easy. Also, young people should be told the option that it's ok to live child free as an adult.

It is true that Winston was a brain-dead moron for having a child. Nevertheless, society needs couples who are willing to sacrifice their fun and leisure to pop out babies and raise them. The fact is, the west faces a demographics crisis, in which the birth rates of almost all developed countries are below replacement levels. The repercussions will be dire, affecting all areas of society for the worse.

Going by the birth rates, people from South America will be taking over North America. Whites, blacks and Asians will either move away or absorb into the culture. In fact, I have a good Korean friend who told me Koreans moving to America are now learning Spanish in the West Coast.

I really don't believe the situation will be dire, societies change, languages change, governments change, currency chances... ect...
http://www.mapsofwar.com/images/EMPIRE17.swf

It's just part of life, and if you ask me, South Americans are better suited to raise families being that they understand the concept better then American whites, or the fact that they have not sustained massive male abandonment in their homes like American blacks.

If you never had a culture or civilization you valued or cared much to begin with, it's easy to see why you would adopt a fatalistic attitude and think the situation isn't dire.

It IS dire if you care about your culture and civilization. It is dire if you're white or European, and you see everything your people built crumbling before your eyes. That is why it's impossible for me and anyone else who loves their people to adopt the convenient Winston Wu "philosophy" of "some problems are meant to be endured, not solved" -- which is pretty much the same thing as being indifferent and not lifting a finger.

[BigDug]

But nevertheless, your children are YOUR responsibility because you had them, so you have to endure all this for 20 years or more in order to be a proper parent. Once you have them, you are expected to be locked into the monotonous routine of daily life with them, in order to raise them and be there for them.

By the time your kids grow up and move out, you will be old, over the hill, have health problems, be no longer attractive to the opposite sex, and everything will go down from there as you wait to die. In effect, you will have given away the best years of your adult life to raise children. And what will you get for it? A pat on the back from them, and a "thanks for being a good parent", none of which will bring back your lost years.

In that sense, children are the ultimate scam of nature upon parents, albeit a necessary one, for our species cannot continue without them. Thus, Mother Nature has to trick you into feeling empty and incomplete without them, hardwiring it into your DNA. Otherwise you'd never have kids. Technically you will lose a lot but gain nothing from them. It's a totally raw deal for parents, but they must be programmed to want kids, lest the human race become extinct. (unless some future mass artificial insemination becomes the norm, as depicted in scary sci fi films)

And of course, kids will require the stable environment of a home and marriage to raise, which will further tie you down and lock you into a long-term routine in one place, not allowing you to travel or explore as your heart desires. Again, all this compounds to completely remove all freedom from your life, day or night.

So, unless your life is truly empty without children, and you are a very selfless and self-sacrificing person who is willing to give a lot of attention to a child, and you love children so much that you can't live without them, you should consider the consequences above. Otherwise, you will be done for and suffer in misery everyday while you have all your freedom taken away, in exchange for nothing and no ROI (return on investment). It will be the worst thing that's ever happened to you and the BIGGEST MISTAKE of your life! The only way out would be to give up your child for adoption, or become a deadbeat dad. Otherwise, you will face years of regret, and your patience and tolerance will be constantly stretched beyond their limits, all for nothing - no gain, no profit, no reward, no fun, no pleasure, no peace of mind, no intellectual stimulation, etc. except for maybe the love they give you back. If that is fine to you, then more power to you. But when you analyze it logically, it makes no sense and seems like a trick of Mother Nature to perpetuate the species.

Keep in mind that unlike other big life decisions, children CANNOT be undone. You can get a job and quit it. You can marry and divorce. You can get a house and sell it and move. You can quit college and continue later. But you cannot undo children once you have them. So treat this like the most utmost decision in your life!

I agree.^^

I know of a 27 year old woman who was a life long friend of mine; she married up the social ladder to well off guy (her wedding cost 40-50k).

Well, a few months ago she had her first baby and I found out from her family that my life long friend and her husband were both were shocked at all the difficulty it takes in raising a child; and because of that they will NOT have another one.

They said they can't do what they want anymore because the baby is always in need of attention and they have no more time to enjoy their lives.

I feel sorry for them because I feel they were scammed into having a baby. The family put pressure on them to have a baby and pop out "grandkids", but what's going on now is that since the novelty of a little baby has worn off and all the pictures are taken, the grandparents have abandoned their role and left the two of them alone to raise the child.

That's not right, somebody should have told them the difficulties in raising a child instead of painting the brush that it's easy. Also, young people should be told the option that it's ok to live child free as an adult.

It is true that Winston was a brain-dead moron for having a child. Nevertheless, society needs couples who are willing to sacrifice their fun and leisure to pop out babies and raise them. The fact is, the west faces a demographics crisis, in which the birth rates of almost all developed countries are below replacement levels. The repercussions will be dire, affecting all areas of society for the worse.

Going by the birth rates, people from South America will be taking over North America. Whites, blacks and Asians will either move away or absorb into the culture. In fact, I have a good Korean friend who told me Koreans moving to America are now learning Spanish in the West Coast.

I really don't believe the situation will be dire, societies change, languages change, governments change, currency chances... ect...
http://www.mapsofwar.com/images/EMPIRE17.swf

It's just part of life, and if you ask me, South Americans are better suited to raise families being that they understand the concept better then American whites, or the fact that they have not sustained massive male abandonment in their homes like American blacks.

If you never had a culture or civilization you valued or cared much to begin with, it's easy to see why you would adopt a fatalistic attitude and think the situation isn't dire.

It IS dire if you care about your culture and civilization. It is dire if you're white or European, and you see everything your people built crumbling before your eyes. That is why it's impossible for me and anyone else who loves their people to adopt the convenient Winston Wu "philosophy" of "some problems are meant to be endured, not solved" -- which is pretty much the same thing as being indifferent and not lifting a finger.

The thing for me is that in order to sustain the United States culture, I would have to encourage Americans to marry each other and pop out as many kids as humanly possible. But in today's climate, it's impossible. The economies of all these Western countries has now been altered and has adjusted itself around both men ad women in the workforce. What the dad used to be able to pay for by earning a living, it now requires both parents to do. Then you factor in a divorce, alimony, child support, etc and that's yet another discouragement to tell Americans to marry each other.

So then your choices become either make yourself unhappy by bitterly watching your culture crumble, or allow yourself to find acceptance and find your own happiness in other ways. You can't go through life in a state of worry an regret. And you can't replenish the dying birthdate by yourself.

Do I have to be unhappy and wallow in despair over the current culture situation to be labeled as "lifting a finger"?

[NorthAmericanguy]

But nevertheless, your children are YOUR responsibility because you had them, so you have to endure all this for 20 years or more in order to be a proper parent. Once you have them, you are expected to be locked into the monotonous routine of daily life with them, in order to raise them and be there for them.

By the time your kids grow up and move out, you will be old, over the hill, have health problems, be no longer attractive to the opposite sex, and everything will go down from there as you wait to die. In effect, you will have given away the best years of your adult life to raise children. And what will you get for it? A pat on the back from them, and a "thanks for being a good parent", none of which will bring back your lost years.

In that sense, children are the ultimate scam of nature upon parents, albeit a necessary one, for our species cannot continue without them. Thus, Mother Nature has to trick you into feeling empty and incomplete without them, hardwiring it into your DNA. Otherwise you'd never have kids. Technically you will lose a lot but gain nothing from them. It's a totally raw deal for parents, but they must be programmed to want kids, lest the human race become extinct. (unless some future mass artificial insemination becomes the norm, as depicted in scary sci fi films)

And of course, kids will require the stable environment of a home and marriage to raise, which will further tie you down and lock you into a long-term routine in one place, not allowing you to travel or explore as your heart desires. Again, all this compounds to completely remove all freedom from your life, day or night.

So, unless your life is truly empty without children, and you are a very selfless and self-sacrificing person who is willing to give a lot of attention to a child, and you love children so much that you can't live without them, you should consider the consequences above. Otherwise, you will be done for and suffer in misery everyday while you have all your freedom taken away, in exchange for nothing and no ROI (return on investment). It will be the worst thing that's ever happened to you and the BIGGEST MISTAKE of your life! The only way out would be to give up your child for adoption, or become a deadbeat dad. Otherwise, you will face years of regret, and your patience and tolerance will be constantly stretched beyond their limits, all for nothing - no gain, no profit, no reward, no fun, no pleasure, no peace of mind, no intellectual stimulation, etc. except for maybe the love they give you back. If that is fine to you, then more power to you. But when you analyze it logically, it makes no sense and seems like a trick of Mother Nature to perpetuate the species.

Keep in mind that unlike other big life decisions, children CANNOT be undone. You can get a job and quit it. You can marry and divorce. You can get a house and sell it and move. You can quit college and continue later. But you cannot undo children once you have them. So treat this like the most utmost decision in your life!

I agree.^^

I know of a 27 year old woman who was a life long friend of mine; she married up the social ladder to well off guy (her wedding cost 40-50k).

Well, a few months ago she had her first baby and I found out from her family that my life long friend and her husband were both were shocked at all the difficulty it takes in raising a child; and because of that they will NOT have another one.

They said they can't do what they want anymore because the baby is always in need of attention and they have no more time to enjoy their lives.

I feel sorry for them because I feel they were scammed into having a baby. The family put pressure on them to have a baby and pop out "grandkids", but what's going on now is that since the novelty of a little baby has worn off and all the pictures are taken, the grandparents have abandoned their role and left the two of them alone to raise the child.

That's not right, somebody should have told them the difficulties in raising a child instead of painting the brush that it's easy. Also, young people should be told the option that it's ok to live child free as an adult.

It is true that Winston was a brain-dead moron for having a child. Nevertheless, society needs couples who are willing to sacrifice their fun and leisure to pop out babies and raise them. The fact is, the west faces a demographics crisis, in which the birth rates of almost all developed countries are below replacement levels. The repercussions will be dire, affecting all areas of society for the worse.

Going by the birth rates, people from South America will be taking over North America. Whites, blacks and Asians will either move away or absorb into the culture. In fact, I have a good Korean friend who told me Koreans moving to America are now learning Spanish in the West Coast.

I really don't believe the situation will be dire, societies change, languages change, governments change, currency chances... ect...
http://www.mapsofwar.com/images/EMPIRE17.swf

It's just part of life, and if you ask me, South Americans are better suited to raise families being that they understand the concept better then American whites, or the fact that they have not sustained massive male abandonment in their homes like American blacks.

If you never had a culture or civilization you valued or cared much to begin with, it's easy to see why you would adopt a fatalistic attitude and think the situation isn't dire.

It IS dire if you care about your culture and civilization. It is dire if you're white or European, and you see everything your people built crumbling before your eyes. That is why it's impossible for me and anyone else who loves their people to adopt the convenient Winston Wu "philosophy" of "some problems are meant to be endured, not solved" -- which is pretty much the same thing as being indifferent and not lifting a finger.

Ahh, you're absolutely right! I'm not European so I don't see the collapse of the West in the way that a European would.

[NorthAmericanguy]

4) Mortgage/Home - Unless you are wealthy enough to buy up a house or inherit one, you will usually have to make mortgage payments on one, which means you become a LONG-TERM DEBT SLAVE, for decades probably. For most Americans, this is the biggest monthly expense. And in order to finance it, you will have to get a job and keep it. This will make you a slave both to the mortgage and to your job, tying you down long-term to a specific location as well. This means yo are NOT free for travel, adventure or exploration.

And you will have to contend with regular cleaning and maintenance cost/labor associated with owning a home too. As they say, "Owning a home is like having a stone tied around your neck."

In addition, if you get married and have kids, it will normally lead to settling down in a home, which requires the servitude of employment to pay off - all of which results in your life being completely controlled by others, in total enslavement to obligation, duty and responsibility.

Now, if you are financially independent or can pay your mortgage without having to submit to employment, then this may not be as big of an issue for you. But for most Americans, this is their biggest monthly expense, and the reason they have to work. Other expenses in life, such as food, clothing, etc. are more malleable.

But of course, having a home to come home to is a wonderful thing. Many eventually discover that it is best to own a small cozy home in a nice area that requires the least amount of maintenance. That seems to be the ideal situation, and most easily achieved in foreign countries where homes are far more affordable than in the USA.

Each of the above take away your freedom. But if you have all four of them - living the typical life so to speak - you might as well just forget about any freedom... as you're pretty much finished... You might as well be in jail...

Now, it is extremely difficult to be truly free from all four of the above binding areas of life. And it would take money and passive income too. But if you can free yourself from even two of the four, you will experience a lot more freedom than most people do. And that in itself would be a monumental achievement..

On that note^

I love to read the comments from real estate blogs/articles.



A few random comments:


"There’s absolutely NOTHING “free� about living in a home after the mortgage is paid off. I’ve watched my property taxes ESCALATE over the years and now the maintenance on an older home makes me wish for better days. I often ask myself why do I “throw away money� on taxes and maintenance.

Looking back, I would say my advice to folks who do buy a house is for them to buy a modest home and invest the difference (preferably in tax deferred/protected accounts – you need to keep governments’ hands out of there too!!). Generally, a house just isn’t a very good investment – PERIOD. Most people list a house as their greatest asset, but you can just as easily classify a house as a liability. Don’t worry about keeping up with the Joneses (afterall, many of the Joneses are financially inept!!).

Be VERY wary of Real Estate agents, builders and mortgage brokers as they have THEIR best interests at heart not yours. There really weren’t mortgage brokers in my day; the loan officer at the bank had a VERY VESTED interested in seeing that I could pay my mortgage as loans weren’t typically sold off back then.

If I had to do it all over again, I would definitley have a different view on this whole home ownership as the American Dream scheme. It wouldn’t surprise me if that concept had its roots in NAR propaganda. I’m not saying I wouldn’t buy a house…I would just buy a modest one and I would sell during any perceived bubble as I approached retirement. “House prices always go up� is the biggest lie out there. I’ve seen a couple of times in my life where they were going down. More propaganda for someone else to take your money."



"The point nobody every brings up (and that you allude to) is that any insurance, maintenance, property tax, and interest expenses you pay that you don’t get back in the form of a tax deduction are all throwing money away the same way rent is. Anybody who thinks “at least I’m paying down principal and building equity� should take 1 minute, got to a mortgage calculator website, and see how much of their mortgage payment is paying principal. *OVER 90%* is interest. Principal payments don’t even exceed interest payments until around year 20. And that doesn’t factor in insurance, taxes, etc. “Renting is throwing money away� is one of the greatest lies ever to become part of conventional wisdom."





"Very well stated.

I have had this discussion copious times with many individuals. Because most are using borrowed money to purchase their home, they are ‘throwing’ money away via interest payments.

What is laughable to me were the dopes that began using interest-only and option-ARM mortgages to purchase their properties. If that isn’t throwing money away, I don’t know what is. You are essentially building NO equity and increasing your costs for no reason. It is basically renting with all the added risk. How people were moronic enough to fall for that Red Herring is beyond me.

One side note that I believe is worth mentioning is that one of the major benefits of renting is the upward mobility it provides. Let’s face it; the days of being guaranteed that one can work for the same company in the same area and retire comfortably with a pension are GONE. Many of us will change jobs multiple times due to various circumstances, the primary one being a lay-off. If one is a home owner, they are many times tied to a specific geographic location. It is far more difficult to uproot yourself in that scenario. That makes looking for a job far more bleak since you are keeping your search local.

A renter however, when confronted with a job loss, is easily mobile and can move about if necessary. No fuss with having to arrange open houses, deal with realtors, negotiate prices, etc. Just give your 30 days notice and out the door you go!
I think the future of the job market is going to make a mobile individual far more viable.

If you live in my area (Northern California) the disparity between renting versus owning is HUGE. In certain more afluent areas, you can rent for sometimes half the cost of what it would take to purchase the equivalent property. This makes absolutely no fiscal sense (and demonstrates the nature of the bubble), but it does show that in certain cases, renting is a better option. Couple that with the typical traffic that we get around here and I would personally much rather be in a position where I could move to a different rental in necessary should I have to switch jobs.

Finally, there is one additional key item to factor in: if you live, like I do, in an area that generally pays higher salaries, you are actually saving MORE for your future if you simply rent and bank the savings. I’ve done the math several times and if I can maintain my current level of employment and salary over a longer time frame, I could retire comfortably at an earlier age by merely picking up and moving to a a lower cost area and buying a house outright."








"Renting is great! I don’t know that I’ll ever buy a home again. I sold my home at the top of the bubble, and am now renting and I love it. When I owned, I never had any cash. If the air conditioning broke, there goes my cash. If the washing machine or furnace broke, there goes my cash. Now, when something breaks, I call the rental office, they send the ole’ trusty maintenance man, and I don’t even have to sign anything. Sometimes I forget and go running for my checkbook, like when my oven went out just as I was about to add my homemade pie, and the guys says, oh no ma’am, you’re all set! 1 hour, on a rainy night, and it’s done.

Buying a home is bondage. It’s slavery. You have no freedom to quit your job when you’ve had it with your lunatic boss, because you have to think about that mortgage. Like the earlier entry, you can’t look for jobs out of town. You are so not free! When I look for a job I look everywhere. I tell them, oh, I’m a renter, I can go wherever I want for work.

Let me pose this question: Is paying for closing cost an investment? Seems to me, that’s truly throwing your money away. Fees? What is that? Administrative costs? Again, tossing it out the window? Funny, I didn’t have to pay any of that. I didn’t even have to pay last months and a security deposit because they have this new $59 one-time fee insurance program now.

Life is grand as a renter. Oh yea, I can paint too. Just have to change it back before I leave, or pay a $25 repaint fee."










"We’ve crunched numbers and concluded that you can have far more riches NOT buying a house. It’s a weird concept….follow us on our journey:

In our situation, rent is $805 monthly. This equates exactly to a 5% fixed rate loan on a $150,000 home. But there are many other expenses that we would incur, including
Property tax ($250)
Homeowners Insurance ($100)
Water Sewage ($75)
Lawn Maintenance ($50)
Increases in electricity expenses
Purchasing items (furniture appliance etc)
Repairs and upkeep

Aprox. $700+ a month in NEW expenses. (Well that’s much more than our rent)

Conclusion: Since we rent, we are able to instead INVEST those additional costs ($700+ a month) into Roth IRAs which grow tax free. Over a 30yr period of time (same time as the average mortgage) our investment would be $1,050,206 with an 8% return….or….$2,470,938 with a 12% return.

You never really truly own a home till the day its paid for in full. The average annual price increase of a home according to the USA Real Estate Median Sales Prices of Existing Homes since 1968 is 6.4%(before the bubble burst) Therefore a $150,000 home purchased today would be worth $850,000 in 30 years. (best case senerio) That sounds great however it is not really since we would have paid
$252,000 (mortgage with interest) plus
$700 a month we were unable to invest since it went to the above listed maintenance items..look at the cost over the 30 year period!

$90,000 in property taxes,
$30,000 in homeowners insurance,
$45,000 in home repair upkeep,
$27,000 in lawn/maintenance services
$36,000 for water, sewage and additional utilities and repairs

Conclusion:
Although the home would be worth $850,000, the expense to purchase and maintain the home would be aprox. $353,715 which leaves a “true profit of ONLY a 2.8% profit. So many people forget to include ALL the cost associated with a house its not just the mortgage. And a home is worth only what you sell it for. And there is another house on every block.

Never listen to the closed minded people who claim YOU’RE THROWING AWAY YOUR MONEY PAYING RENT. These people are brainwashed into the ideal that you must own a home. Many have debt beyond belief.

No, it enables us to invest so that we can live our retirement with dignity. We will never become house poor and always be debt free.

We can take advantage of our most powerful wealth building tool, our income. With that power we have compounding interest that will work FOR us and not Against us in ALL our financial decisions.

Buy buying a home we would have thrown away our retirement and would have lost a million dollars or more! With our investments we will always be able to find a place to live, or even get this buy a home with cash when we retire.

We believe that you are throwing you money away by having a mortgage! Imagine loosing $1,595,527 in investments for a $850,000 house…who thru their money away? Correct answer NOT US!

We were shocked when one day we thought what if by some miracle poof we were the owners of a PAID for house. Our first thought was we would be rich, NOT so fast my friend.. Even with a paid for house we would only save about $250 a month after all the new expenses. We were floored! Again with a paid off house we would only save $250 a month!!! So if we spend an extra $500,000 the cost of a mortgage and expenses over 30 years, then 30 years from now we can save $250 a month…(Approx $550 in new expenses less the $800 rent) No worth it at all.

Yes rent will go up, but so will insurance, repairs & utilities, so its close to a wash. In addition by RENTING we able to keep our expenses low and will continue to add to our investments and saving plans over time all with compounding interest already established.

A HOME PROVIDES SECURITY….IT’S THE AMERICAN DREAM.

This is a fallacy that has been pressed upon us all. Yes, the paid for house has replaced the BMW as the stasis symbol of choice. The only way paying off a mortgage saves you money is if you already HAVE a mortgage. However one very important part of this “dream� is not often thought of…Introducing RISK

Sorry but over 30 years RISK is an indisputable fact. 100% of all foreclosures have a mortgage on them. I repeat 100% of all foreclosures have a mortgage on them. Over the time of a 30 year mortgage so many things can happen…illness, accidents, loss of jobs, or even death. By carrying a mortgage and all those NEW expenses mentioned earlier, many mortgage holders have little savings period let alone any retirement accounts.

Personally this would not be a blessing it would be a curse! I’d be worried all the time “what would break next?� or damn I’ve got to do the lawn this weekend� or “damn I have to take off work (not paid) to meet the plumber…or an unexpected assessment fee.

We may not OWN a home but we OWN our lives and live a resort lifestyle. A beautiful lake view setting, swimming pools, fitness centers, and every walk with our dog is just like being at a private park. We are able to be DEBT FREE! WORRY FREE! And are investing with gazelle intensity for our future. It’s the best felling in the world and that my friends is priceless.

If happiness is truly where the heart is we’re already there. A wise man (that Dave Ramsey again) says that be weird, normal is broke. We’ll these are our beliefs"




http://messymatters.com/2009/06/01/buyrent/

[momopi]

People get into trouble because they buy homes that they can't afford, or pay too much for over-priced homes. The fundamental value of a home is based on its potential rental income, with premiums added for location and school districts.

Right now the interest rate for 30-year fixed is below 4.5% and 15-year fixed is below 3.5%. You can actually come close to break-even (monthly cash-flow) on 15y loan with investment properties today.

A $150k 3/2 house with 20% down, 15 year fixed rate loan at 3.5% = $857/month in P+I, +$200-$250/month for property tax and property manager, and another couple hundred for yard service, reserves, insurance, and other misc. expenses. The house will rent for $1200-$1400/month. In 15 years the house is paid off. Don't think "oh that's so long", because those years go by fast.

Your primary residence is a cash flow liability, but also comes with $500,000 tax exemption on equity gains when you sell. It's probably the biggest tax giveaway accessible to the average wage earner. If your family bought a home for $500k today and sold it for $1 million later, you pay $0 in taxes on the $500k gain.

[Winston]

Here is my dad's take on my essay:

It is very true that job, marriage, children and mortgage are bondages that restrain people from doing what they want. That is why those monks and nuns abandoned their mundane life to live in the monastery.

On the other hand, those so called bondages also give us some degree of pleasure and satisfaction. Children also give us some joys for their innocent and pure acts, watching the new lives we created growing up, learning new things on the way. Marriage also gives us to have our spouse to share our happiness and sadness, to share our house works and to accompany us to our old age and take care of us when we are sick. Mortgage also helps us save our money and hopefully the house will appreciate in the future. Jobs pay us so that we could support ourselves and family to live and have some fun. Jobs could also give us opportunity to contribute and use what we learn to benefit others.

The total freedom has to include our mind as well. The monks and nuns after they abandomed their mundane life are not necessarily free yet, they have to be free from attachment, craving, wanting, worrying and those hatred, greed and jealous etc. as well.

Love,
Dad

[ricklee]

Humans are compassionate beings by nature

I disagree. I believe that human beings are aggressive/evil by nature, therefore religious principles/ basic ethics were set up in the remote past to install some type of humanity into humans (some ancient text say the Gods came down and gave it to us). Religion later on was twisted and used (it was bound to happen) as another tool to conquer people.

. It seems to be getting to the point where immediate family is being seen solely as a burden to one's own all-important pleasure.

Children are a burden in MODERN society because from the ages of 1-18 they can't contribute anyway to the family nor can they take care of themselves. Then from the ages of 18 into old age, most kids decide to use their labor to help everybody else but their own family.


So what's the point? Parents are sacrificing their lives to raise healthy young adults who will then use their labor to make Burger King, the sex industry, the military, or the government rich, all while the parents have to scramble around and try and figure out how they are going to retire.


Edit: What needs to happen is the elimination of compulsorily education and children need to start working in their respective field at young ages because they can do it. For example, I believe that a 15 year old should be able to get a job at a hospital and apprentice with the head doctor (this is how it was done in the past). In doing so, a child can learn to take care of itself much earlier in life, and be able to contribute his or her immediate family.

You obviously were not meant to be a dad. For myself being a father is probably the single most fulfilling event and this is coming from someone that has done a lot of things.