True Freedom = No Job, Marriage, Children or Mortgage

[Contrarian Expatriate]

IF Though the loss of freedom is no small price to pay, the payoff comes later when the kids are grown and begin to have kids of their own. It is a tried and true strategy to not be lonely in your later years and to exit life with the satisfaction of having built something that persists.

You need to look at it from a different angle. There's absolutely no guarantee that children will look after their parents in their swansong. Both the parents or children could die before it gets that far. The child/children could have mental or physical problems, turn into nasty, selfish or rebellious individuals or simply fall out with their parents. There's numerous potential outcomes that need considering. Anyhow, it's not morally correct to bring children into this world for strategic purposes.

I would say one of the most crucial junctures in your life is when you're a young adult. It doesn't last forever so enjoy it while you can without the need for expensive complications such as kids and relationships. Worry about being lonely nearer the time because that time may never come. If it does, get a cat.

Very much correct, although I am in my fifties now and I am having more fun than most 20 year olds are having. I don't know how long this "fun" will last, but I still prefer it over a wife and family to whom I choose to be enslaved

I do understand that in the West, marriage is often a suicide move for men. It can be considerably different other places. I'm really not feeling my misery - married to a good Filipina who sees to it I get waited on hand and foot. Financially, when I met my wife, she was from a modest middle class family, mother father and brother, but her family has since inherited extensive land holdings in the Philippines, moving them into the wealthy category by any standard. I'm not feeling the slavery bit, sorry that I'm not miserable...lol

I am happy for you, really. But there will come a time when you will know what I am talking about. The point at which you are no longer physically attracted to your wife is the point that you will understand your enslavement.

I tell all men to imagine their wives 20 years older and 50 pounds fatter, then ask if they would want to be married to her. 9 out of 10 say no.

I also tell them to think of their favorite food dish and imagine if they could only each that dish, and nothing else, for the rest of their lives. They all realize that they would hate that dish after only a month!

These two realizations come to pass in marriage and only honest married men will admit it.

[statnerd]

I am happy for you, really. But there will come a time when you will know what I am talking about. The point at which you are no longer physically attracted to your wife is the point that you will understand your enslavement.

I tell all men to imagine their wives 20 years older and 50 pounds fatter, then ask if they would want to be married to her. 9 out of 10 say no.

I also tell them to think of their favorite food dish and imagine if they could only each that dish, and nothing else, for the rest of their lives. They all realize that they would hate that dish after only a month!

These two realizations come to pass in marriage and only honest married men will admit it.

My dad cheated on his wife (my stepmother) when she became morbidly obese. Was he wrong doing that? Yeah, but I can see why he did it.

A lot of women pig out and become very lazy after getting married. I've seen many examples of that. They only maintain a healthy weight when they're looking for men.

[Zambales]

Worry about being lonely nearer the time because that time may never come. If it does, get a cat.

A cat won't look after you and nor will the government. You just need to accept that you're f***ed.

Of course a cat won't look after you but that was a tongue in cheek comment. What will look after you comes in the form of thinking outside of the box. So if you become a lonely old dude, what do you do? Get married to a caring foreign woman such as a Filipina. The deal is that she looks after you until you die and in return she gets citizenship to your country plus she'll be the heir to your will. With that proposition on the table the number of applicants could fill the length of Roxas Boulevard many times over with attractive women. It's a win-win situation plus you'll go out with a bang. Quite a few actually.

Far better than relying on offspring - and far cheaper too. You can't take your wealth/possessions with you when you die so you've nothing to lose.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

Worry about being lonely nearer the time because that time may never come. If it does, get a cat.

A cat won't look after you and nor will the government. You just need to accept that you're f***ed.

Of course a cat won't look after you but that was a tongue in cheek comment. What will look after you comes in the form of thinking outside of the box. So if you become a lonely old dude, what do you do? Get married to a caring foreign woman such as a Filipina. The deal is that she looks after you until you die and in return she gets citizenship to your country plus she'll be the heir to your will. With that proposition on the table the number of applicants could fill the length of Roxas Boulevard many times over with attractive women. It's a win-win situation plus you'll go out with a bang. Quite a few actually.

Far better than relying on offspring - and far cheaper too. You can't take your wealth/possessions with you when you die so you've nothing to lose.

Bravo This I can definitely support. I have a 25 year old who wants to settle down with me, a guy more than twice her age. While marriage is not a possibility, I would surely look after her especially if she squeezes out my pups.

I can bear seeing my children grow to young adults before I die with a young, sweet, THIN beauty providing comfort in my final days. But Westerners tend to frown upon May-December relationships like this (mostly out of envy).

[Neo]

Worry about being lonely nearer the time because that time may never come. If it does, get a cat.

A cat won't look after you and nor will the government. You just need to accept that you're f***ed.

Of course a cat won't look after you but that was a tongue in cheek comment. What will look after you comes in the form of thinking outside of the box. So if you become a lonely old dude, what do you do? Get married to a caring foreign woman such as a Filipina. The deal is that she looks after you until you die and in return she gets citizenship to your country plus she'll be the heir to your will. With that proposition on the table the number of applicants could fill the length of Roxas Boulevard many times over with attractive women. It's a win-win situation plus you'll go out with a bang. Quite a few actually.

Far better than relying on offspring - and far cheaper too. You can't take your wealth/possessions with you when you die so you've nothing to lose.

Bravo This I can definitely support. I have a 25 year old who wants to settle down with me, a guy more than twice her age. While marriage is not a possibility, I would surely look after her especially if she squeezes out my pups.

I can bear seeing my children grow to young adults before I die with a young, sweet, THIN beauty providing comfort in my final days. But Westerners tend to frown upon May-December relationships like this (mostly out of envy).

Do you look younger than your age? I am just wondering. Do you ever meet any women who are attracted to you but change their minds when they learn of the age difference? Personally I don't think it matters so much, but as you know, being American, lots of people say that it makes a big difference, but it probably depends on who you are.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

Do you look younger than your age? I am just wondering. Do you ever meet any women who are attracted to you but change their minds when they learn of the age difference? Personally I don't think it matters so much, but as you know, being American, lots of people say that it makes a big difference, but it probably depends on who you are.

Most people do say I look to be in my upper 30's versus in my fifties, especially in countries abroad where cigarette smoking ages people prematurely. However, I only rarely get asked my age by girls I date. On the rare occasion that I do, I will ask the girl how old I look then add one year to that. So I lie about it initially because they are in disqualification mode when they first meet you.

I later tell them the truth and apologize about misleading them about my age and they actually never even care once they have had fun with me and a bond was created.

Western culture, especially the American variant, is extremely ageist against men and there is a specific reason for that. According to Oleg Novoselov, author of Women: A Textbook For Men, middle-aged feminists maintain the taboo against older men being with younger women. The purpose is to prevent middle-aged feminists from being locked out of the sexual marketplace. If older men had complete access to young women, older women would be locked out of the sexual marketplace. Feminists, who brainwash women to waste their beauty years on university and career life, know that there would be a feminist revolt if those women could not find older, accomplished men after they reached age 30. So the May-December relationship shaming is agenda driven. You will also find that some married men will help enforce this taboo, but they are doing it out of envy, and to a lesser extent, on behalf of the feminist imperative.

One last note about this: The sugar baby lifestyle in America is obliterating the taboo because 18 and 19 year old girls know that older men have the most money. They are now actively SEEKING older men and shunning younger men because of this so that is a positive developent that I have seen in the last 2 years only.

[flowerthief00]

Poppycock! If that is what you consider "the payoff," than your life must be devoid of any true joy and satisfaction. Without even touching the issue of kids who grow up to be huge disappointments, I think it is foolish to slave away to wife and family just for the possibility of having offspring to leave behind.

You come into the world alone and you will leave it alone also. Having a smattering of people around your deathbed does not justify being a miserable slave to wife and family. Everyone's life sucks at the end! It is retarded to design your entire life around the possibility that your end of life experience might be a little less sucky because you will not be alone. A better strategy is to life your life to full enjoyment with freedom, wealth, health, adventure, professional accomplishment, and fulfillment. Those of us who do that know that living 70 years of absolute bliss, and 5 years of decline is far better than 60 years of work and servitude and 20 years of family assisted decline. Note that the married man lives to 80 versus 75 for the free man. Those are extra years that I would gladly forgo just to have the privilege of living free, happy, and absolutely fulfilled.

-Never listen to married men who want you to sacrifice and suffer just as they do.
-Never listen to women who want you to aspire to be a slave for some woman somewhere.
-Never listen to religious nuts who simply want to advance the agenda of their faith, your agenda be damned.
-Never listen to "traditionalists" who have no clue that the agenda of the tradition is not in your interest as a man.
-Stay MGTOW or deeply regret it later.

Well I haven't read that book yet (would like to), but....
What is this "true" joy and satisfaction you're talking about? Who decides what that is if not the individual man? If one man's idea of joy and satisfaction is to be surrounded by a family of his own making, who are we to say he is wrong to think so? (The satisfaction, btw, is not just on your deathbed!) A man can't decide for himself what brings him satisfaction?

Surely there are many men who went the marriage & family route only to regret it. Surely there are men who did not regret it. I've known some of the latter type and I really don't think they're faking it. They could be, for instance, the type of fellow who loves being around kids.

For one man, satisfaction could be dating gold-diggers while smoking fat cigars and dying a little bit early. That is not what I want.

For another it could be participating in the Cycle of Life which persists long after the former man's cigars are burnt away. That is not what I want either BUT I do not mock it. I wouldn't exist if there hadn't been a man who did (want it).

You need to look at it from a different angle. There's absolutely no guarantee that children will look after their parents in their swansong. Both the parents or children could die before it gets that far. The child/children could have mental or physical problems, turn into nasty, selfish or rebellious individuals or simply fall out with their parents. There's numerous potential outcomes that need considering. Anyhow, it's not morally correct to bring children into this world for strategic purposes.

I would say one of the most crucial junctures in your life is when you're a young adult. It doesn't last forever so enjoy it while you can without the need for expensive complications such as kids and relationships. Worry about being lonely nearer the time because that time may never come. If it does, get a cat.

Oh, I didn't mean that the main reason for parents to raise children is to have them look after them in their swansong. I didn't mean that at all.(although it can be one possible benefit) I was thinking more about the sense of satisfaction of having participated in seeing new human life complete the journey from infant to adulthood. What IS a morally correct purpose to bring children into the world if not that?

[Contrarian Expatriate]

For one man, satisfaction could be dating gold-diggers while smoking fat cigars and dying a little bit early. That is not what I want.

For another it could be participating in the Cycle of Life which persists long after the former man's cigars are burnt away. That is not what I want either BUT I do not mock it. I wouldn't exist if there hadn't been a man who did (want it).

I don't buy the happy parents claim for one second. Studies show that people LIE to fool themselves and to fool others. It is the same dynamic that pushes people to lie about their miserable vacations or their miserable weekends. Most people will claim that they LOVED their vacations or weekends when the truth is that they are simply trying to come off as positive and as happy in accordance with the American culture of optimism at all costs.

You have to only speak to people who are self aware and honest to tell you the truth about parenting and marriage. Those few men I trusted warned e never to do it.

Also, keep in mind that I have worked as a social worker in the past and each day was a case with another parent or set of parents who were at wit's end with the stress, toil, and expense of parenting. I simply DO NOT BELIEVE men when they claim that marriage and parenting is so full of joy and bliss. They are expected to say that or they would be stigmatized and shunned.

I hate The Young Turks, but they cite a study of surveys that yield what parents are REALLY thinking. Don't believe the bullcrappers lies!

[OutWest]

IF Though the loss of freedom is no small price to pay, the payoff comes later when the kids are grown and begin to have kids of their own. It is a tried and true strategy to not be lonely in your later years and to exit life with the satisfaction of having built something that persists.

You need to look at it from a different angle. There's absolutely no guarantee that children will look after their parents in their swansong. Both the parents or children could die before it gets that far. The child/children could have mental or physical problems, turn into nasty, selfish or rebellious individuals or simply fall out with their parents. There's numerous potential outcomes that need considering. Anyhow, it's not morally correct to bring children into this world for strategic purposes.

I would say one of the most crucial junctures in your life is when you're a young adult. It doesn't last forever so enjoy it while you can without the need for expensive complications such as kids and relationships. Worry about being lonely nearer the time because that time may never come. If it does, get a cat.

Very much correct, although I am in my fifties now and I am having more fun than most 20 year olds are having. I don't know how long this "fun" will last, but I still prefer it over a wife and family to whom I choose to be enslaved

I do understand that in the West, marriage is often a suicide move for men. It can be considerably different other places. I'm really not feeling my misery - married to a good Filipina who sees to it I get waited on hand and foot. Financially, when I met my wife, she was from a modest middle class family, mother father and brother, but her family has since inherited extensive land holdings in the Philippines, moving them into the wealthy category by any standard. I'm not feeling the slavery bit, sorry that I'm not miserable...lol

I am happy for you, really. But there will come a time when you will know what I am talking about. The point at which you are no longer physically attracted to your wife is the point that you will understand your enslavement.

I tell all men to imagine their wives 20 years older and 50 pounds fatter, then ask if they would want to be married to her. 9 out of 10 say no.

I also tell them to think of their favorite food dish and imagine if they could only each that dish, and nothing else, for the rest of their lives. They all realize that they would hate that dish after only a month!

These two realizations come to pass in marriage and only honest married men will admit it.

They say, take a look at her mother...20 years older I can imagine, but very unlikely to be a whale. Her mother weighs About the same as her daughter, about 105 lbs. I am very unlikely to not notice if I feel enslaved, and I even get your quest for variety. My wife is very good to me and is a genuinely kind person. If I thought I was enslaved I would not stick around for it. If she turns mean or becomes a land whale, she sure as hell better get along with the new "maid" I will hire.

[Zambales]

Poppycock! If that is what you consider "the payoff," than your life must be devoid of any true joy and satisfaction. Without even touching the issue of kids who grow up to be huge disappointments, I think it is foolish to slave away to wife and family just for the possibility of having offspring to leave behind.

You come into the world alone and you will leave it alone also. Having a smattering of people around your deathbed does not justify being a miserable slave to wife and family. Everyone's life sucks at the end! It is retarded to design your entire life around the possibility that your end of life experience might be a little less sucky because you will not be alone. A better strategy is to life your life to full enjoyment with freedom, wealth, health, adventure, professional accomplishment, and fulfillment. Those of us who do that know that living 70 years of absolute bliss, and 5 years of decline is far better than 60 years of work and servitude and 20 years of family assisted decline. Note that the married man lives to 80 versus 75 for the free man. Those are extra years that I would gladly forgo just to have the privilege of living free, happy, and absolutely fulfilled.

-Never listen to married men who want you to sacrifice and suffer just as they do.
-Never listen to women who want you to aspire to be a slave for some woman somewhere.
-Never listen to religious nuts who simply want to advance the agenda of their faith, your agenda be damned.
-Never listen to "traditionalists" who have no clue that the agenda of the tradition is not in your interest as a man.
-Stay MGTOW or deeply regret it later.

Well I haven't read that book yet (would like to), but....
What is this "true" joy and satisfaction you're talking about? Who decides what that is if not the individual man? If one man's idea of joy and satisfaction is to be surrounded by a family of his own making, who are we to say he is wrong to think so? (The satisfaction, btw, is not just on your deathbed!) A man can't decide for himself what brings him satisfaction?

Surely there are many men who went the marriage & family route only to regret it. Surely there are men who did not regret it. I've known some of the latter type and I really don't think they're faking it. They could be, for instance, the type of fellow who loves being around kids.

For one man, satisfaction could be dating gold-diggers while smoking fat cigars and dying a little bit early. That is not what I want.

For another it could be participating in the Cycle of Life which persists long after the former man's cigars are burnt away. That is not what I want either BUT I do not mock it. I wouldn't exist if there hadn't been a man who did (want it).

You need to look at it from a different angle. There's absolutely no guarantee that children will look after their parents in their swansong. Both the parents or children could die before it gets that far. The child/children could have mental or physical problems, turn into nasty, selfish or rebellious individuals or simply fall out with their parents. There's numerous potential outcomes that need considering. Anyhow, it's not morally correct to bring children into this world for strategic purposes.

I would say one of the most crucial junctures in your life is when you're a young adult. It doesn't last forever so enjoy it while you can without the need for expensive complications such as kids and relationships. Worry about being lonely nearer the time because that time may never come. If it does, get a cat.

Oh, I didn't mean that the main reason for parents to raise children is to have them look after them in their swansong. I didn't mean that at all.(although it can be one possible benefit) I was thinking more about the sense of satisfaction of having participated in seeing new human life complete the journey from infant to adulthood. What IS a morally correct purpose to bring children into the world if not that?

To do what's best for their children is what a good parent makes. One's that have kids solely for the reason to have them playing the role as their personal "babysitter" when they're elderly are selfish and manipulative.

[flowerthief00]

I don't buy the happy parents claim for one second. Studies show that people LIE to fool themselves and to fool others. It is the same dynamic that pushes people to lie about their miserable vacations or their miserable weekends. Most people will claim that they LOVED their vacations or weekends when the truth is that they are simply trying to come off as positive and as happy in accordance with the American culture of optimism at all costs.

You have to only speak to people who are self aware and honest to tell you the truth about parenting and marriage. Those few men I trusted warned e never to do it.

Also, keep in mind that I have worked as a social worker in the past and each day was a case with another parent or set of parents who were at wit's end with the stress, toil, and expense of parenting. I simply DO NOT BELIEVE men when they claim that marriage and parenting is so full of joy and bliss. They are expected to say that or they would be stigmatized and shunned.

I hate The Young Turks, but they cite a study of surveys that yield what parents are REALLY thinking. Don't believe the bullcrappers lies!

The first couple years having your first kid does sound shitty, not just figuratively. I imagine it gets gradually better over time, as your kid matures and is increasingly able to hold intelligent conversations and share what's going on in his life with you. Then when the cute grandchildren come you get to play with them without being responsible for their care.

I think it's all comparable to building a business from scratch. A helluva lot of stress in the beginning, but gets easier over time. In the end you're enjoying the benefits without barely working at all (ideally). Just as a lot of business ventures fail, a lot of families fail. Clearly some do succeed.

[Zambales]

True Freedom = No Job, Marriage, Children or Mortgage
By Winston Wu (Founder of HappierAbroad.com)

4) Mortgage/Home - Unless you are wealthy enough to buy up a house or inherit one, you will usually have to make mortgage payments on one, which means you become a LONG-TERM DEBT SLAVE, for decades probably. For most Americans, this is the biggest monthly expense. And in order to finance it, you will have to get a job and keep it. This will make you a slave both to the mortgage and to your job, tying you down long-term to a specific location as well. This means you are NOT free for travel, adventure or exploration.

And you will have to contend with regular cleaning and maintenance cost/labor associated with owning a home too. As they say, "Owning a home is like having a stone tied around your neck."

In addition, if you get married and have kids, it will normally lead to settling down in a home, which requires the servitude of employment to pay off - all of which results in your life being completely controlled by others, in total enslavement to obligation, duty and responsibility.

Now, if you are financially independent or can pay your mortgage without having to submit to employment, then this may not be as big of an issue for you. But for most Americans, this is their biggest monthly expense, and the reason they have to work. Other expenses in life, such as food, clothing, etc. are more malleable.

But of course, having a home to come home to is a wonderful thing. Many eventually discover that it is best to own a small cozy home in a nice area that requires the least amount of maintenance. That seems to be the ideal situation, and most easily achieved in foreign countries where homes are far more affordable than in the USA.

Each of the above take away your freedom. But if you have all four of them - living the typical life so to speak - you might as well just forget about any freedom, as you're pretty much finished. You might as well be in jail. You have zero freedom, regardless of what your Constitution or Bill of Rights says, as all that is meaningless since you have no freedom anyway.

Now, it is extremely difficult to be truly free from all four of the above binding areas of life. And it would take money and passive income too. But if you can free yourself from even two of the four, you will experience a lot more freedom than most people do. And that in itself would be a monumental achievement.

The novelty of a small cozy home situated in a nice leafy suburb will soon wear off once the enormity of your actions sink in. Sacrifices have to be made and the things you could once afford are now a fleeting memory unless you're prepared to plummet into even more debt. Want a few weeks vacation abroad in the sun because you're stressed out? No problem but it'll cost you more than usual because you have to borrow and so the vicious circle continues.

And what about ten years down the line when the cost of living increases suffocating you even further. You may have to take a part-time job on top of your full-time one to make ends meet resulting in that small cozy home of yours being used solely as a place to sleep because you're forever out working to pay for it.

Heard all the depressing tales. Not a wise move especially for the average person in today's climate.

[Ruamtow]

That's so true.

[Spireman]

I totally agree with you, the best feeling ever is when you don't have to pay a loan or mortgage. I am being serious about that, because I was paying a mortgage for the last 20 years, so I know what I am talking about, my friend works for Mortgage Advisor Middlesbrough, and I am sure he will say the same. Furthermore, I just try to enjoy this feeling, how long is possible, because you don't know when you will take another mortgage or start a new marriage. Hope everyone is enjoying his/her freedom. Have a nice one.

[Will N. Dowd]

It's true, and I'm a perfect example of it.
Why?
No job since 2012, and I really only miss the paycheques and employee discounts.
Never married and never will. I don't like governments so don't involve them in my relationships.
No kids and still no desire to have them, although surprisingly I like to practice making them.
Paid my mortgage in 8.5 years including paying over $36,000 in 9 months in 2010 pay it off.