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Did Japan win WWII?

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momopi
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Post by momopi » January 27th, 2014, 11:03 pm

Cornfed wrote:
momopi wrote:The Flying Tigers in WW2 were active in Burma & Southern China area. They were not deployed anywhere near the Japan, nor were they equipped with aircraft suitable for bombing raids on Japan. The Kurtis P-40 was a short-legged fighter (compared to Mitsubishi Zero's long legs).
Documents declassified during the 80s indicate they were in the process of being so deployed and equipped, and it is only delays in doing so that stopped them from striking before Pearl Harbor. There have been mainstream television documentaries on this.
Where would you (or they) base the bomber aircraft to reach Japan in 1941-1942? The USAF did not have the long-range B-29 at the time, note the Doolittle Raid with shorter-ranged B-25's were one-way missions.

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Last edited by momopi on January 28th, 2014, 12:37 am, edited 2 times in total.

momopi
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Post by momopi » January 28th, 2014, 12:07 am

Winston wrote:I still don't understand something though. If there was an oil embargo on Japan, then what did it hope to gain by starting a war with the US and attacking Pearl Harbor? I mean, even if Japan won WWII, how would that have helped their oil problem? If the US wasn't willing to sell oil to Japan, then what good would a war do? I don't see the logic in it.
Was the US the only exporter of oil in the world? How did Nazi Germany get oil then? Couldn't Japan get oil the same way?
Winston, the question of oil export has already been answered 2 or 3 times already, including a previous post in this same thread. In 1940 the 4 main oil exporters were US, Iran, Romania, and Dutch East Indies. Romania joined the Axis powers in Nov 1940, and Japan invaded Dutch East Indies in Dec 1941.

Had Japan won WW2, they'd have successfully obtained mineral resources in China, rubber in SE Asia, oil in Dutch East Indies, etc. The US was Japans' only peer competitor in the Pacific and it was clear that the US would not tolerate such Japanese expansion by force. Just as the US oil embargo cut off Japan from >90% of its oil imports, the Japanese invasion of SE Asia also cut off US from 90% of its natural rubber imports. No rubber = no tires. The US responded by rubber rationing and building synthetic rubber plants.

When Nazi Germany's access to Romanian oil was disrupted, they also responded by making synthetic fuels. The process involves hydrogenation of bituminous coal at high temperature, and turning them into fuel or lubricants. Germany had large coal deposits so they did not need to import the coal. The Allied forces considered these plants to be major targets & bombed them into craters.

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Cornfed
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Post by Cornfed » January 31st, 2014, 9:25 am

momopi wrote:
Cornfed wrote:
momopi wrote:The Flying Tigers in WW2 were active in Burma & Southern China area. They were not deployed anywhere near the Japan, nor were they equipped with aircraft suitable for bombing raids on Japan. The Kurtis P-40 was a short-legged fighter (compared to Mitsubishi Zero's long legs).
Documents declassified during the 80s indicate they were in the process of being so deployed and equipped, and it is only delays in doing so that stopped them from striking before Pearl Harbor. There have been mainstream television documentaries on this.
Where would you (or they) base the bomber aircraft to reach Japan in 1941-1942? The USAF did not have the long-range B-29 at the time, note the Doolittle Raid with shorter-ranged B-25's were one-way missions.
I seem to remember this issue was covered extensively for the first time in the December 1989 edition of Soldier of Fortune magazine. It was then covered again a couple of years later by, I think, 60 Minutes. You would have to look up those sources or check out what Douglas Dietrich is saying to get the details. I make no claim to being an authority on the subject.

momopi
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Post by momopi » January 31st, 2014, 10:49 pm

Douglas Dietrich makes a wide range of claims, but is a bit light on the technical details.

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Cornfed
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Re: Did Japan win WWII?

Post by Cornfed » February 1st, 2019, 7:10 am

How actually can it be disputed that Japan did win the war? Consider the dispute. Japan had reached the limits of its industrial development due to a lack of access to natural resources. They tried to gain access to those resources under reasonable terms from whitey (who at the time controlled all the resources) and whitey declined. So there was a war. After the war whitey sold resources and the technology to use them to Japan at fire sale prices. So you have a dispute leading to a war leading to Japan getting its way on the point of dispute. How is that not Japan winning a war?

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Yohan
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Re:

Post by Yohan » February 1st, 2019, 1:42 pm

zboy1 wrote:
January 5th, 2014, 3:53 am
Japan is basically occupied territory for American imperialists--with thousands of U.S. soldiers stationed in the country; so, how can you say that Japan won the war? That's ridiculous.
I think such strange claims were originally generated by the Japan ultra-right groups, especially from Yuko Tojo, the grand-daughter of the former War Minister Hideki Tojo.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuko_Tojo

Some people in Japan do not want to hear the truth, of course Japan lost the war.
gsjackson: I agree the US should shut its bases in Japan, but right now we seem determined not to let China dominate the region and are developing more of a military presence in the region.
It's not only about Japan, but also about South Korea, South Korean government also pays for the US presence in their territory approx. 40 percent.
The China/North Korea threat is a real threat and cannot be ignored.

About the US troops in Japan, they will stay here for a long time I guess, and Japan is paying about 80 percent of all their expenses, even the salaries of the US servicemen, even the fuel of their airplanes and ships and their accommodation and air-bases, ports and other facilities are all free of charge.

Japan has not enough servicemen at the moment, however otherwise the Japanese army is technically very good equipped. On the other side, to recall these US-servicemen back to the States will be a financial problem for the USA, what to do with all these servicemen after their arrival? They might be about 80.000 or more, what to do with all these facilities in Japan and South Korea?

The idea is to reduce the US-forces slowly, year by year, Japan is not against US presence in general, but the question is why do we need so many of them. South Korea shares about the same opinion.

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Re: Re:

Post by Moretorque » February 1st, 2019, 5:08 pm

Yohan wrote:
February 1st, 2019, 1:42 pm
zboy1 wrote:
January 5th, 2014, 3:53 am
Japan is basically occupied territory for American imperialists--with thousands of U.S. soldiers stationed in the country; so, how can you say that Japan won the war? That's ridiculous.
I think such strange claims were originally generated by the Japan ultra-right groups, especially from Yuko Tojo, the grand-daughter of the former War Minister Hideki Tojo.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuko_Tojo

Some people in Japan do not want to hear the truth, of course Japan lost the war.
gsjackson: I agree the US should shut its bases in Japan, but right now we seem determined not to let China dominate the region and are developing more of a military presence in the region.
It's not only about Japan, but also about South Korea, South Korean government also pays for the US presence in their territory approx. 40 percent.
The China/North Korea threat is a real threat and cannot be ignored.

About the US troops in Japan, they will stay here for a long time I guess, and Japan is paying about 80 percent of all their expenses, even the salaries of the US servicemen, even the fuel of their airplanes and ships and their accommodation and air-bases, ports and other facilities are all free of charge.

Japan has not enough servicemen at the moment, however otherwise the Japanese army is technically very good equipped. On the other side, to recall these US-servicemen back to the States will be a financial problem for the USA, what to do with all these servicemen after their arrival? They might be about 80.000 or more, what to do with all these facilities in Japan and South Korea?

The idea is to reduce the US-forces slowly, year by year, Japan is not against US presence in general, but the question is why do we need so many of them. South Korea shares about the same opinion.
The sociailist bankers out of the CITI set this entire con job up, where is the treaty Japan signed " THE REAL ONE " following their defeat ? The current system we have allowed to be set up world wide of this one world imperialism has completely accelerated the current mass extinction gathering steam from not respecting how the eco of the planet works.

You have to live in your local ECO and globalism has proven to be the opposite of that, I think we all need to go vergetarian in a hurry or future generations are DONE!
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Moretorque
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Re: Did Japan win WWII?

Post by Moretorque » February 2nd, 2019, 1:41 am

Cornfed wrote:
February 1st, 2019, 7:10 am
How actually can it be disputed that Japan did win the war? Consider the dispute. Japan had reached the limits of its industrial development due to a lack of access to natural resources. They tried to gain access to those resources under reasonable terms from whitey (who at the time controlled all the resources) and whitey declined. So there was a war. After the war whitey sold resources and the technology to use them to Japan at fire sale prices. So you have a dispute leading to a war leading to Japan getting its way on the point of dispute. How is that not Japan winning a war?
Look at all the Ponzi schemes collasping 70 years later, like Ponzi really invented that. We can can trace the Bank of England to 1694 as a over 300 year old Ponzi.....
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Moretorque
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Re:

Post by Moretorque » February 2nd, 2019, 5:25 pm

momopi wrote:
January 28th, 2014, 12:07 am
Winston wrote:I still don't understand something though. If there was an oil embargo on Japan, then what did it hope to gain by starting a war with the US and attacking Pearl Harbor? I mean, even if Japan won WWII, how would that have helped their oil problem? If the US wasn't willing to sell oil to Japan, then what good would a war do? I don't see the logic in it.
Was the US the only exporter of oil in the world? How did Nazi Germany get oil then? Couldn't Japan get oil the same way?

When Nazi Germany's access to Romanian oil was disrupted, they also responded by making synthetic fuels. The process involves hydrogenation of bituminous coal at high temperature, and turning them into fuel or lubricants. Germany had large coal deposits so they did not need to import the coal. The Allied forces considered these plants to be major targets & bombed them into craters.
Yaa and guess what they had to have an additive they did not have and got it from Standard Oil so they could make their fuel, our rulers just sit back and laugh at how stupid the sheople are. Wait for the child to wear itself out swinging it's fists at each other and then con it into building a cage around it's self for it's own good.... :roll:
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