The Myth and Fallacy of Social Skills (with Women)

[ExpeditionSailor]

American men are told that they need to improve their social skills because frivolous American women reject them.

The term "social skill" means nothing to AW since they have men doing all the socializing for them without reciprocating it in any way. Any man who's been on a date and asked a woman 8 questions in a row (answered all by short-winded responses) and not have the female ask you a single question back knows exactly how the paradigm works.

It's similar to when people use the term "man up"; it's completely trivial because nobody can tell females to "woman up".

AW are not capable of reciprocating in any meaningful way. If they're not completely sociopathic, then they are totally solipsistic. I've had that happen to me over and over again any time I've been 'lucky' enough to date an AW. I will ask many questions about them, but they never ask me any questions about me.

[sushiman]

because nobody can tell females to "woman up".

Actually I tell women to "woman up".

Not those exact words but the same meaning.

[colibri]

American men are told that they need to improve their social skills because frivolous American women reject them.

The term "social skill" means nothing to AW since they have men doing all the socializing for them without reciprocating it in any way. Any man who's been on a date and asked a woman 8 questions in a row (answered all by short-winded responses) and not have the female ask you a single question back knows exactly how the paradigm works.

It's similar to when people use the term "man up"; it's completely trivial because nobody can tell females to "woman up".

every time i read about this suposedly rigid american dating scenes makes me wonder if u guys are making up all this ....or maybe overreacting a lil ..sorry -_-

[Falcon]

every time i read about this suposedly rigid american dating scenes makes me wonder if u guys are making up all this ....or maybe overreacting a lil ..sorry -_-

Yes, for outsiders, it can be hard to believe. And vice versa (guys here reading about foreign dating scenes). But there are thousands of other threads about this issue, so what can I say ...

[Winston]

no I think social skills are very important anytime and anywhere. It´s like being able to read the mind of the people. This is a clear advantage. It´s like you know in advance what will happen. You can create a big social circle through this. Don´t forget you also have a higher chance to know who you are.

You miss the point of this post. Yes people skills are a good thing to have. However, there is a false myth in America that a man needs good social skills to get women. Therefore, when a man with good social skills and people skills tries to talk to a woman with NO social skills at all, or conversation skills for that matter, the blame is falsely pitted on the man as not having social skills when the actual truth is that the woman had no social/conversation skills. Thus the blame is FALSELY pitted against the man. It's a big lie and shell game. And when analyzed logically, it makes no sense. It's just another way that liberals find an excuse to blame and demean males.

[Winston]

American men are told that they need to improve their social skills because frivolous American women reject them.

The term "social skill" means nothing to AW since they have men doing all the socializing for them without reciprocating it in any way. Any man who's been on a date and asked a woman 8 questions in a row (answered all by short-winded responses) and not have the female ask you a single question back knows exactly how the paradigm works.

It's similar to when people use the term "man up"; it's completely trivial because nobody can tell females to "woman up".

every time i read about this suposedly rigid american dating scenes makes me wonder if u guys are making up all this ....or maybe overreacting a lil ..sorry -_-

Many foreign women tell me that they find it hard to believe what I say about American women. But I always swear to them that if they come to America and experience it all themselves, they will say "Oh I see what you mean now..."

[Falcon]

Colibri has actually been to the U.S. But Latino enclaves are quite unlike the anti-social suburbs, and brief stays in those areas won't really reveal anything about the social dynamics of the world outside the enclaves.

Many foreign women tell me that they find it hard to believe what I say about American women.

See the first story in viewtopic.php?t=15815 ... "[She must have felt] as if I were talking about space aliens."

[Falcon]

Back to the original topic.

If a decent-looking guy still has trouble interacting with both men and women in several different countries, then this could be actually be attributed to poor social skills. But many guys have excellent, above-average social skills which help them succeed with easily getting friends (even female friends), jobs, connections, and plenty of other necessities, but just not dates.

In the U.S., I have no trouble getting to meet new people and starting up lively, interesting conversations right away. I'm naturally quite friendly, and random people that I have just met usually enjoy talking to me, getting my contact info, and so on. So do many people on HA. But we're still here on this forum.

There are millions of highly functional - if not overachieving - but DATELESS young incel Western men, with absolutely nothing wrong with them. Despite being excellent hubby and bf material, they have never gone on dates before. Then once some of them go abroad, they are shocked by the "zero to rock star" effect (quoting Winston's phrase).

I actually find it easy to make female friends in the U.S. But things never go beyond casual friendship, and this certainly is not because of poor social skills or whatever other shaming tactic says. The phenomenal attention and flirting I got from girls in Oaxaca, Mexico, and other places, stand in complete contrast to the strictly platonic interactions I've always had with California women.

All demands some serious explanation, and certainly not by the usual shaming tactics.

[momopi]

You miss the point of this post. Yes people skills are a good thing to have. However, there is a false myth in America that a man needs good social skills to get women. Therefore, when a man with good social skills and people skills tries to talk to a woman with NO social skills at all, or conversation skills for that matter, the blame is falsely pitted on the man as not having social skills when the actual truth is that the woman had no social/conversation skills. Thus the blame is FALSELY pitted against the man. It's a big lie and shell game. And when analyzed logically, it makes no sense. It's just another way that liberals find an excuse to blame and demean males.

There's a girl in a room behind a closed door. You need the social skills to open that door. The girl inside is not guaranteed to like you. Social skills equate to the keys to open that door, it's not a certificate of guarantee on getting laid. If you did not have the keys, then you wouldn't have been allowed inside and given the chance to make an impression. You can also equate social skills with the size, quality, and complexity of a person's social network.

[publicduende]

Back to the original topic.

If a decent-looking guy still has trouble interacting with both men and women in several different countries, then this could be actually be attributed to poor social skills. But many guys have excellent, above-average social skills which help them succeed with easily getting friends (even female friends), jobs, connections, and plenty of other necessities, but just not dates.

In the U.S., I have no trouble getting to meet new people and starting up lively, interesting conversations right away. I'm naturally quite friendly, and random people that I have just met usually enjoy talking to me, getting my contact info, and so on. So do many people on HA. But we're still here on this forum.

There are millions of highly functional - if not overachieving - but DATELESS young incel Western men, with absolutely nothing wrong with them. Despite being excellent hubby and bf material, they have never gone on dates before. Then once some of them go abroad, they are shocked by the "zero to rock star" effect (quoting Winston's phrase).

I actually find it easy to make female friends in the U.S. But things never go beyond casual friendship, and this certainly is not because of poor social skills or whatever other shaming tactic says. The phenomenal attention and flirting I got from girls in Oaxaca, Mexico, and other places, stand in complete contrast to the strictly platonic interactions I've always had with California women.

All demands some serious explanation, and certainly not by the usual shaming tactics.

I tend to agree with the above. Social skills will only take you a certain point. If a woman met in a club is in the mood for a young masculine stud and you're a handsome, boy-faced blond angel, chances are your attractiveness might not even cut with her. If a woman met in a social event or sitting in a coffee shop with a book is looking for an interesting conversation, even the most mediocre looking man with some social skill is quite likely to strike a successful approach with her.

Over with the initial approach, whether seconded by looks and body language, or social skills, you actually need to make a genuine connection with the woman to ensure the conversation goes on, possibly as far as a date. Social skills may well be important, but even more important is to be yourself, have an intellectual life and an intellectual honesty.

[mattyman]

I think that a lot of people equate social skills with trying to impress, as opposed to building rapport and comfort.

It's only natural for someone who has not had much success to question the quality of their social skills and to believe that they need to be 'fixed'. After all, this is the rhetoric that's spread by the PUA community. Many fall into the trap of believing that they are not up to standard and that they have to learn special 'skills' in order to woo a potential partner. I personally think that this sort of thinking is harmful.

If a woman met in a social event or sitting in a coffee shop with a book is looking for an interesting conversation, even the most mediocre looking man with some social skill is quite likely to strike a successful approach with her.

Over with the initial approach, whether seconded by looks and body language, or social skills, you actually need to make a genuine connection with the woman to ensure the conversation goes on, possibly as far as a date. Social skills may well be important, but even more important is to be yourself, have an intellectual life and an intellectual honesty.

Absolutely, totally agree. I'll add that being able to empathise and build rapport is very important, as well as being sincere and genuine (well, at least for women that value that).

I think if anything, social skill difficulties are the result of being in a toxic environment, that can erode someone's self-esteem, and/or hold back their social development, that doesn't allow them to form the freidnships and relationships that equip them for what they need.

The problem is some men are so damaged by their unhealthy upbringing that they go to those countries and still have troubles cause they never learned how to relate to women as an actual man should.

I agree.

Even so, more positive environments can be beneficial to people who are in that boat.

[Winston]

In another thread, I told the truth about social skills. I think the same applies to American girls/women too, and girls/women in general. What do you all think?

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=17100

"Why can't you just be sensible and admit that social skills have NOTHING to do with this. The truth is, Taiwanese females just don't like my vibe/aura and perhaps they like yours. That's why they will be more sociable or talkative to you or open up to you more. This has NOTHING to do with social skills. In truth, I'm probably more outgoing than you and have better social skills than you. But it doesn't matter if they don't like me, then none of that counts. Think about it. That's the REAL issue here. We all know that talking about "social skills" is just a shaming tactic, it's not something real. If a girl likes you, all you need are average social skills and everything will go well. If a girl doesn't like you, then you could have the greatest social skills in the world and it wouldn't matter. Think about it. This is common sense logic and wisdom and real life experience. You are just a heckler with no substance."

Likewise, you could be the greatest baseball hitter in the world, but if you never get up to bat, you will never score anything.

[Winston]

You miss the point of this post. Yes people skills are a good thing to have. However, there is a false myth in America that a man needs good social skills to get women. Therefore, when a man with good social skills and people skills tries to talk to a woman with NO social skills at all, or conversation skills for that matter, the blame is falsely pitted on the man as not having social skills when the actual truth is that the woman had no social/conversation skills. Thus the blame is FALSELY pitted against the man. It's a big lie and shell game. And when analyzed logically, it makes no sense. It's just another way that liberals find an excuse to blame and demean males.

There's a girl in a room behind a closed door. You need the social skills to open that door. The girl inside is not guaranteed to like you. Social skills equate to the keys to open that door, it's not a certificate of guarantee on getting laid. If you did not have the keys, then you wouldn't have been allowed inside and given the chance to make an impression. You can also equate social skills with the size, quality, and complexity of a person's social network.

I don't understand what you mean momopi. Social skills and social network aren't the same thing. You seem to have a strange definition of social skills. lol.

No. Social skills is more like communication skills and your ability to get along with others using tact, diplomacy, etc and the ability to size people up so you can know how to act and talk around them. This is more useful in the BUSINESS world, where one needs to be professional and tactful and diplomatic and communicate well. But NOT in the dating scene, for obvious reasons. If the girl isn't into you, or doesn't like your looks or vibe, or has nothing in common with you, then your social skills will be a NON-FACTOR. Think about it. Have you ever used "social skills" or tact or diplomacy to make a girl like you if she wasn't into you and didn't find you to be her type? Of course not. Even if you have great communication skills and are a great orator, that's not gonna create attraction in a girl who isn't into you. See what I mean? This is common sense.

Therefore, this social skills thing applies more to the business world or public relations or politics (if you are a politician). But it's pretty useless in dating. In dating, if a girl likes you, you can be a "strong silent type" of guy and she will still adore you, even if you say little and let her do all the talking. We've all seen movies where that happens, so you know what I mean.

Furthermore, if you are in Taiwan or California, where women don't even notice you if you're a stranger, then your social skills don't matter because no matter what you say, they will ignore you and walk on and mind their own business, especially if it's out in public, and act like you don't exist and they didn't hear you. So if they walk on by you like you aren't there, what does it matter what you say? They will ignore it and walk on and mind their own business and think you're probably some kind of creep. Try it and you will see what I mean. You could even say, "Would you like a million dollars?" or "Look there's Tom Cruise and Brad Pitt!" and they would walk on as if they didn't hear you or see you. So you see, if they ignore you and don't stop to talk to you, then your social skills aren't an issue. Again, it's a NON-FACTOR.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

No. Social skills is more like communication skills and your ability to get along with others using tact, diplomacy, etc and the ability to size people up so you can know how to act and talk around them. This is more useful in the BUSINESS world, where one needs to be professional and tactful and diplomatic and communicate well. But NOT in the dating scene, for obvious reasons. If the girl isn't into you, or doesn't like your looks or vibe, or has nothing in common with you, then your social skills will be a NON-FACTOR. Think about it. Have you ever used "social skills" or tact or diplomacy to make a girl like you if she wasn't into you and didn't find you to be her type? Of course not. Even if you have great communication skills and are a great orator, that's not gonna create attraction in a girl who isn't into you. See what I mean? This is common sense.

I think what you are describing is "emotional intelligence" which is said to be more important than IQ in getting to the top of organizations.

Also, social skills involves more than what you describe. It involves being able to pick up on which girls you have a high chance of succeeding with and also when to cut and run gracefully to meet someone else. So it is just more than just behavior, it is picking up on social cues and adjusting accordingly.

[hypermak]

I think what you are describing is "emotional intelligence" which is said to be more important than IQ in getting to the top of organizations.

Emotional intelligence alone won't get you the job, since usually hard skills and a demonstrable track record are involved. Once you are in the job, emotional intelligence is one of the factors that will allow you to be a more compassionate, tactful and effective leader and, in some cases, get you that extra respect and appreciation you need to stand out and climb the ladder.

Also, social skills involves more than what you describe. It involves being able to pick up on which girls you have a high chance of succeeding with and also when to cut and run gracefully to meet someone else. So it is just more than just behavior, it is picking up on social cues and adjusting accordingly.

So, in a way, you are agreeing with him. Most girls know what they are looking for, both for a fling and a stable relationship, They will have squared you up in the first 5 minutes of conversation. That's why they usually react really badly when they get catfished online, since they make a quick decision based on the photos they see and the two lines of description, and are absolutely fuming when they see their decision is baseless because the man of their choice is someone completely different in looks, personality and socio-economic status.