Join John Adams, world renowned Intl Matchmaker, Monday nights 8:30 EST for Live Webcasts!
And check out Five Reasons why you should attend a FREE AFA Seminar! See locations and dates here.



View Active Topics       View Your Posts       Latest 100 Topics       FAQ Topics       Mobile Friendly Theme


Transhumanism & A.I. - Man/Machine Fusion = End of Humanity?

Discuss science and technology topics here.

Moderators: fschmidt, jamesbond

Paloaltoguy
Freshman Poster
Posts: 498
Joined: July 6th, 2014, 6:47 am

Post by Paloaltoguy » July 11th, 2014, 3:32 am

Winston wrote:Here is Terrence's (The_Adventurer) take on this:
The_Adventurer wrote:Immortality is never going to happen. AI is never going to be self aware. I think it is fully possible that they can crete a program that gives the appearance of consciousness and is, in every way, more intelligent than we, but it will all be, like the article said, just a sophisticated program pretending to be AI. Still, they can't even keep the enemies in video games from running into walls. so I'll believe it when I see some more progress.

Even if the technology develops to transfer our mind into the machine, it will only be a huge transfer of a set of information. That machine may look like, act like, walk like and talk like the person whose mind was transferred, but it will not BE that person. That person will die. If there is a spirit or any other kind of force that continues after death, that spirit will look on, knowing he died and a machine that looks, acts and walks like him is moving through the world fooling everyone.

If you're really into this stuff, I suggest you watch Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex. There are two series and a movie. It's animation, but all very serious in dealing with this topic and related topics. I also suggest watching the animated series Real Drive, from the same creator. In Taiwan it may also be easer to find his comics. This guy has delved into every question related to this topic though his works. Maybe if he wasn't a comic and animation artist, he would BE the next Kurzweil.
So why do scientists and futurists think that consciousness is just a complex brain and can be recreated in a computer or AI? We don't even know what consciousness really is, so why do they think they have it all figured out already?
That's because consciousness is just a big suitcase word

http://edge.org/conversation/consciousn ... g-suitcase

Paloaltoguy
Freshman Poster
Posts: 498
Joined: July 6th, 2014, 6:47 am

Post by Paloaltoguy » July 11th, 2014, 3:47 am

Jester wrote:
Winston wrote:Here is Terrence's (The_Adventurer) take on this:
The_Adventurer wrote:Immortality is never going to happen. AI is never going to be self aware. I think it is fully possible that they can crete a program that gives the appearance of consciousness and is, in every way, more intelligent than we, but it will all be, like the article said, just a sophisticated program pretending to be AI. Still, they can't even keep the enemies in video games from running into walls. so I'll believe it when I see some more progress.

Even if the technology develops to transfer our mind into the machine, it will only be a huge transfer of a set of information. That machine may look like, act like, walk like and talk like the person whose mind was transferred, but it will not BE that person. That person will die. If there is a spirit or any other kind of force that continues after death, that spirit will look on, knowing he died and a machine that looks, acts and walks like him is moving through the world fooling everyone.
So why do scientists and futurists think that consciousness is just a complex brain and can be recreated in a computer or AI? We don't even know what consciousness really is, so why do they think they have it all figured out already?
Good question, Winston. The answer, I suspect, is that the elitists who are fascinated by this ersatz immortality are godless megalomaniacs who are desperate to believe in their own immortality. They are buying a lie. (You may be too young, but around 1980 or so there was a short-lived TV show called Max Headroom, about this very thing. A guy who became immortal inside a computer. )

The yearning for immortality is once fulfilled through an afterlife in heaven (e.g. Christianity), or a continuing family with successful children (e.g. Confucianism I think?), or at least a meaningful life with positive contributions left behind (e.g. Romans or Judaism). Elitists are sickos who have done enough evil shit tha they are secure in none of those things. So the idea of Max Headroom-style, or clone-style immortality is very appealing.

The ego does not wish to die.
\ :roll:
Last edited by Paloaltoguy on July 23rd, 2014, 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Paloaltoguy
Freshman Poster
Posts: 498
Joined: July 6th, 2014, 6:47 am

Post by Paloaltoguy » July 11th, 2014, 4:03 am

:!:
Last edited by Paloaltoguy on July 23rd, 2014, 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tezcatlipoca
Freshman Poster
Posts: 151
Joined: November 27th, 2013, 6:42 am
Location: California

Post by Tezcatlipoca » July 11th, 2014, 8:13 am

Stop being angry at the stuff you don't have (yet) in life and instead focus on how to get it.

User avatar
Winston
Site Admin
Posts: 27162
Joined: August 18th, 2007, 2:16 pm
Contact:

Re: Transhumanism: Man/Machine Fusion = The End of Humanity?

Post by Winston » November 22nd, 2014, 12:57 pm

I just had a scary realization.

Do you think smart phones are a step toward Transhumanism, or the future integration of man and machine into a new cybernetic race? Are they part of the conditioning to program us to accept becoming integrated with cybernetic organisms when the time comes, as some experts such as Ray Kurzweil and Michio Kaku, predict? This is not science fiction. Even Time Magazine reported that this was a serious possibility:
http://content.time.com/time/magazine/a ... 99,00.html

Anyhow, consider this:

Most people with smart phones either have an iPhone or an Android right? Well the word "iPhone" sounds like saying that "I am a phone". So it's like programming your subconscious to see you and your phone as one. Such is the fusion of man and machine. Likewise, an "Android" is a human looking robot, which we've learned from sci fi movies and TV shows like Star Trek. So it also programs us to see our phones as "human robots".

So, both terms program our subconscious to want to fuse man and machine as one, or integrate them.

Thus, the purpose of the smart phone then, is to get us ready to accept becoming cybernetic organisms, which will be the next step of human evolution that will replace all natural human beings and render them obsolete.

Furthermore, you know how we always have to constantly "update" and "upgrade" our Android operating systems and our smart phone apps? Well could that too be training us and programming us to want to "update" and "upgrade" ourselves when the time comes to gradually turn us into cybernetic beings?

Scary huh? All this is right under our noses and we don't see it.

This must be why there are movies now that glorify the fusion of man and machine, such as the Iron Man movies, the Transformers movies, and Elysium.

And of course, the internet itself, as well as video games and RPG's, are also conditioning us to live in a "virtual reality world" or "cyber world". Perhaps this is the true purpose of the internet and video games?

This also explains the purpose behind feminism, the disintegration of family, the programming of singles to not want to marry, the push for transgenderism, GMO's, and the plans to depopulate the human race and lower the birth rate (which is what's happening in Western countries and in Japan and Taiwan).

The elites behind Transhumanism needs there to be less people so the transition to Transhumanism will be quicker and involve less people to transform. Especially since real people will become obsolete under Transhumanism. This is why they want there to be under 500 million people in the world, as stated in the Georgia guide stones, which allegedly contain the Ten Commandments of the New World Order.

Furthermore, they want to make sex outdated too, so that the new technocratic society will simply reproduce humans in laboratory facilities without the need of men and women or families. That's why they've made women in America go for feminism and become masculine, with masculine voices and bodies, so that they will not want men and men will not want them either. That way, humans will not reproduce and the birth rate will be lowered.

That's why they want to push Transgenderism so that men and women will not seek each other to create families and bear children. They want men and women to become the same and not see any gender differences, so they won't need each other anymore nor create families together. That way, no more real humans will be reproduced that they will have to get rid of to make way for Transhumanism. That's why any notions of gender distinction are now demonized as "sexist" under politically correctness.

Pretty sickening and disgusting huh?

Also, GMO's and processed foods in America are probably there to genetically engineer Americans to be more artificial and less natural. That way, it will be easier for them to accept becoming cybernetic machines and robots in the future, to make the transition to Transhumanism easier and smoother. In short, people will accept becoming robotic if they already are artificial and genetically modified from the food, water, chemtrails in the air, and vaccines in America.

All these changes happen gradually, so people won't know what's going on until it's too late.

It's pretty sick and dishonest for the elites to do all this without our consent huh? But of course, they think they know what's best for us and for the world, than we do.

What this also means is that the Zeitgeist movement, which advocates a technocratic utopia society to replace the monetary society, must be a trojan horse movement as well, since it would be in support of Transhumanism. In fact, near the end of the second film, "Zeitgeist Addendum", the all seeing eye of Horus (an Illuminati/Freemasonic symbol shown in many movies to pay homage to whatever these cabals worship) is clearly shown with the Sun behind the hands in a triangle shape.

On a deeper note, I get the sense that movies are not just entertainment for the public. They are a form of ritual worship that the Illuminati creates to honor and pay homage to whatever higher powers they worship -- which they have always made sacrifices to in the form of wars, mass killings, staged tragedies and accidents, and suspicious mysterious murders that are written off as accidents or natural causes. If true, it would explain a lot.

Note: If you think this is just a paranoid science fiction dystopia theme, see this Time Magazine article about how it's a real future possibility:
http://content.time.com/time/magazine/a ... 99,00.html

Also, the infamous Unabomber, Ted Kaczynski, explained in his brilliant logical masterpiece "Industrial Society and its Future" why a technological society must inevitably modify human beings, genetically and psychologically, into artificial organisms in order to adapt them. It makes a lot of sense and contains many logically connected rational arguments. You can read it at one of the links below.

http://cyber.eserver.org/unabom.txt
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/na ... o.text.htm
Check out my FUN video clips in Russia and Female Encounters of the Foreign Kind video series and Full Russia Trip Videos!

Join my Ukrainian/Russian Women Dating Site to meet thousands of legit foreign girls at low cost!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne

HouseMD
Experienced Poster
Posts: 1558
Joined: February 14th, 2012, 3:20 am
Location: Buried Under a Pile of Books

Re: Transhumanism: Man/Machine Fusion = End of Humanity?

Post by HouseMD » November 22nd, 2014, 8:20 pm

Fits that a group of people that are largely against improving themselves would be against a movement that is entirely about self improvement and transcending limitations.

Transhumanism can be a very bad or a very good thing, depending on how it comes about, the technologies that become available, and the access and price of those technologies.

WorldTraveler
Junior Poster
Posts: 748
Joined: June 3rd, 2008, 3:46 pm

Re: Transhumanism: Man/Machine Fusion = End of Humanity?

Post by WorldTraveler » November 23rd, 2014, 5:41 am

No I don't think so, but women prefer their smartphone to a man! I think it's a capitalist plot to have women work instead of making babies!

User avatar
starchild5
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2172
Joined: December 20th, 2013, 11:32 am

Re: Transhumanism: Man/Machine Fusion = End of Humanity?

Post by starchild5 » November 23rd, 2014, 8:06 am


Wolfeye
Experienced Poster
Posts: 1348
Joined: December 29th, 2013, 7:18 am

Re: Transhumanism: Man/Machine Fusion = End of Humanity?

Post by Wolfeye » November 23rd, 2014, 9:06 pm

To fit into a technocratic world? To fit into large scale industrial society? What about depriving those things?

This makes me wonder something: Why do people almost always try to recruit someone else as a form of argument? It's like the situation is that someone says "I'm looking to do this & if you don't give me an argument that I argee with, I'll take that as consent." The pattern is very opponent-dependant. Accomodation of the aggressor as a means of counteracting the attack is not effective.

User avatar
Winston
Site Admin
Posts: 27162
Joined: August 18th, 2007, 2:16 pm
Contact:

Re: Transhumanism: Man/Machine Fusion = End of Humanity?

Post by Winston » December 6th, 2014, 8:12 pm

Check out this 10 minute intro promoting the benefits and logic of Transhumanism. It's very scary. I can't believe it's actually serious. It must be a joke. No one would agree to this. It also falsely assumes that the human soul doesn't exist and that Darwinian Macroevolution is a fact that explains the human species.



Here is a vocal Christian conspiracy theorist called "The Vigilant Christian" tearing apart the intro above.



And here is that same Christian guy exposing the movie "Transcendence" with Johnny Depp as a pro-Transhumanism movie promoting a Satanic agenda.

Check out my FUN video clips in Russia and Female Encounters of the Foreign Kind video series and Full Russia Trip Videos!

Join my Ukrainian/Russian Women Dating Site to meet thousands of legit foreign girls at low cost!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne

User avatar
Teal Lantern
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2773
Joined: August 14th, 2012, 12:48 am
Location: Briar Patch, Universe 25

Re: Transhumanism: Man/Machine Fusion = End of Humanity?

Post by Teal Lantern » December 6th, 2014, 8:28 pm

Humanity hu-schmanity.
When will I be able to download my languages at once instead of spending hours learning them 30. minutes. at. a. time?
не поглеждай назад. 8)

"Even an American judge is unlikely to award child support for imputed children." - FredOnEverything

HouseMD
Experienced Poster
Posts: 1558
Joined: February 14th, 2012, 3:20 am
Location: Buried Under a Pile of Books

Re: Transhumanism: Man/Machine Fusion = End of Humanity?

Post by HouseMD » December 6th, 2014, 8:30 pm

Macroevolution does explain the physical form of the human species. You don't understand genetics and science if you believe otherwise. Personally, I believe that God either designed man (and all of the creatures of the Earth) using evolution, or that he set things in motion in such a way that man would eventually come to be via the process of evolution. The belief in evolution and God need not be mutually exclusive. As to the soul, I believe that man has a soul, but do not have a strong belief as to what happens to that soul once we die. Still, I believe transhumanism could allow people to live significantly longer, healthier lives, with capabilities far removed from today's humans. I don't want to live forever, but I certainly want to live as healthy, long, and fulfilling of a life as possible while I'm here.

In the end, there will be those who choose transhumanism as a path and those who do not. I mean, look at pacemakers- in a very real sense, you're a cyborg once you've got one. The newest models even detect the acid levels within your blood to increase your heart rate to compensate, pacing your heart just as your natural wiring would. This restores original function, but what if you could have an implant that improved the function of your body? Say, one that killed cancer cells before they became life-threatening? Or a chip that substantially enhanced memory (they've already tried this one in mice- the implant essentially gives them perfect recollection, as everything is encoded into long term storage, rather than only a small amount)? That is a personal choice that only an individual can make. It's not immoral to want to bring your body beyond the limits of its natural capabilities, and its honestly tragic, in my opinion, that performance enhancing drugs are not legal. If they were, research could yield more powerful drugs that are far safer than what exists today, allowing people to substantially enhance their performance without implants and the like.

Anyway, that's the end of my rant. Transhumanism is awesome if you're willing to deal with being a human alpha tester, and if corporations and governments don't end up being in absolute control of the technology by pricing it out of the mainstream's reach or regulating the hell out of it to the point that only government officials can get the good stuff.

Anyone of the gaming age around here would do well to play Deus Ex: Human Revolution if they haven't yet. It explores the ethics of transhumanism quite well, and largely takes a negative view, not of the technology itself, but of what man would do with it, from corporations designing implants that reject if you don't take medications that only they can provide to victims of human trafficking being forced to get implants to better serve their client's sexual tastes to couples hating one another after one gets enhanced and the other does not. It's a great game, with some top-notch writing and philosophy.

User avatar
droid
Elite Upper Class Poster
Posts: 3143
Joined: September 20th, 2013, 7:38 am

Re: Transhumanism: Man/Machine Fusion = End of Humanity?

Post by droid » December 7th, 2014, 2:22 am

HouseMD wrote:Personally, I believe that God either designed man (and all of the creatures of the Earth) using evolution, or that he set things in motion in such a way that man would eventually come to be via the process of evolution. The belief in evolution and God need not be mutually exclusive.
+1
HouseMD wrote:I mean, look at pacemakers- in a very real sense, you're a cyborg once you've got one. The newest models even detect the acid levels within your blood to increase your heart rate to compensate, pacing your heart just as your natural wiring would.
Very interesting.
HouseMD wrote: and if corporations and governments don't end up being in absolute control of the technology by pricing it out of the mainstream's reach or regulating the hell out of it to the point that only government officials can get the good stuff.
Some people say they'll shove it down our throats, some people say they'll keep us from it
:roll:
1)Too much of one thing defeats the purpose.
2)Everybody is full of it. What's your hypocrisy?

HouseMD
Experienced Poster
Posts: 1558
Joined: February 14th, 2012, 3:20 am
Location: Buried Under a Pile of Books

Re: Transhumanism: Man/Machine Fusion = End of Humanity?

Post by HouseMD » December 7th, 2014, 3:36 am

droid wrote:
HouseMD wrote:Personally, I believe that God either designed man (and all of the creatures of the Earth) using evolution, or that he set things in motion in such a way that man would eventually come to be via the process of evolution. The belief in evolution and God need not be mutually exclusive.
+1
HouseMD wrote:I mean, look at pacemakers- in a very real sense, you're a cyborg once you've got one. The newest models even detect the acid levels within your blood to increase your heart rate to compensate, pacing your heart just as your natural wiring would.
Very interesting.
HouseMD wrote: and if corporations and governments don't end up being in absolute control of the technology by pricing it out of the mainstream's reach or regulating the hell out of it to the point that only government officials can get the good stuff.
Some people say they'll shove it down our throats, some people say they'll keep us from it
:roll:
Those of us that are more "in-the-know" in regard to transhumanism have a firmer grasp on the emerging developments at the moment, and what might eventually come from them. The Deus Ex scenario is a possibility, albeit in a different means, in which corporations price transhumanist technology for the middle class, but subsequently milk them dry by charging for firmware and software upgrades and the like, essentially making them financial slaves to the corporation if they want their gear to remain functional. Once you learn to live with certain things, it is very, very hard to live without them. For instance, there is a very low-tech way of upgrading your body to sense magnetic fields and electromagnetic forces by implanting magnets underneath the sensory pads of your fingers. The magnets fade in power over time and must be replaced, and one grinder (that's what us low-budget biohackers call ourselves) describes the process of magnetic weakening as akin to going blind. Imagine that, but with something far more integrated and useful that a simple magnetic sensory device.

There is a very real possibility that transhumanist technology will eventually be pushed on the mass market by elites, but it would be low-level tech like RFID implants that would tie your bank and credit accounts to an implanted chip. This could be a very, very bad thing for numerous reasons that you can easily intuit, but would be benign for the vast majority of society. For those that fell afoul of the government for whatever reason, tracking them and shutting down their access to funds would be as simple as turning on a tracking algorithm that could sense the RFID signal of your chip through every single RFID sensor in every payment device in the country and simultaneously disabling your access to payment systems. It's a police state's wet dream, honestly.

The real tech, the good stuff- immortality, substantial neurological enhancements, physical enhancements- wouldn't likely be shared with the masses and would be expensive. You don't exactly want everyone to be immortal- that's too many mouths to feed- nor do you want everyone being a genius or superhumanly strong. The corporations that are currently working on this sort of tech will price it out of the reach of the masses because they can make more money by selling a few expensive upgrades to the wealthy than they can by selling a ton of inexpensive upgrades to the poor. Imagine you have developed a device that costs you $50,000 that could make a person effectively immortal. You can sell this to the masses for $60,000 and a net profit of $10,000, or sell it to the wealthy at a price of $850,000. Now, let's say that only millionaires are willing to spend that sort of money on immortality. There's 12 million millionaires in the world, which would net you $10.2 trillion dollars in profit. Now let's imagine you sold it to the masses and a billion people could afford it. That leaves you with $10 trillion of profit. But one way, you need to produce 12 million units and pay for the employees to manufacture at that scale, while the other way you have to produce a billion units. There's clearly going to be a huge profit difference between one and the other that can't be accounted for with the simple $50k production cost I initially estimated, but would ultimately leave a large incentive for only giving such technology to the wealthy.

Now, this is the issue grinders have to deal with- we're trying to come up with cheap, low-cost transhumanist projects, like the Southpaw, which lets you sense true North via vibratory feedback, implanted magnets that let you sense magnetic fields, and RFID chips that let you automatically open your car as you approach or turn on the lights of your house when you're inside. The big research dollars are, unfortunately, going to the sort of people you'd rather not control the technology- DARPA funded military researchers. We want to create better humans. They want to create better killers for the state. There are pharmaceutical companies involved in what is arguably transhumanist research, but they are completely self-interested, and seek nothing but profit from whatever drugs they devise to aid in the human condition.

I guess I'll just end my rant here. Ultimately, transhumanism can be a net positive or loss for society, depending on who controls it.The biohackers of the world would prefer that the masses were the ones in control, while the government and corporations would prefer that they were the ones either controlling or making money off of the tech. What ends up actually happening, no one knows. Maybe there'll be some awesome transhumanist startups in the future that will completely change the playing field, similar to what Elon Musk did for the space industry. Maybe it'll be dystopian. But change is the only way forward, and it's something we need to do if we're going to create a future for humanity that extends beyond the finite lifespan of our planet.

A couple links below, one about a guy that is a major transhumanist philosopher, and the other two by the ballsiest (possibly craziest) grinder out there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FM-2030
http://hplusmagazine.com/2010/02/11/scr ... shumanism/
http://cyberpunk.asia/cp_project.php?txt=230&lng=us

Wolfeye
Experienced Poster
Posts: 1348
Joined: December 29th, 2013, 7:18 am

Re: Transhumanism: Man/Machine Fusion = End of Humanity?

Post by Wolfeye » December 8th, 2014, 4:02 am

Ultimately, there's a few big problems with all of this: One is that these things could be made so as to be remote operated. Whether that's off the shelf or after the fact. The word "robot" actually comes from the Czech word for slave! If there was a situation where someone's brain was downloaded into a cyborg body, isn't that exactly that situation?

Also, doesn't this strike anyone as a parallel to demonic possession? Remote operation of people, yes? Well, this type of situation either would do that in one stroke or would facilitate that exact type of situation. It's not like things HAVE to be done in a sneaky way. Just like concentration camps- they just DO IT.

I notice that with things that could royally f**k up the human race, there's frequently some monstrous condition that's terrifying to imagine being in that can be averted or there's some benefit to somebody innocent (which tends to mean someone that is intensely feeble- not that this is the definition of in). I guess it's not effective bait if there isn't something appealing about it.

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Science and Technology”