Are doctors corrupted or controlled by big pharma?

[Winston]

I have some questions.

Is the education that doctors receive influenced or controlled in any way by the pharmaceutical industry? If so, to what degree?

Who funds the medical schools that doctors go through? And how trustworthy and objective are they? How do we know they are free of greed, lies, and corruption? What's the proof?

Many assume (perhaps subconsciously) that the medical establishment, FDA, CDC, etc. are institutions that are uncorrupted and free of greed, lies or manipulation. They are assumed to be paragons of truth and objective science which hold consumer protection as the highest ideal, not profit. And of course, the mass followers assume that authority=truth because they are programmed that way and unable to think for themselves.

But how much actual truth is there to these assumptions?

There are claims that big pharma execs can work for the FDA and CDC, thus infiltrating them. Is that true? What's to prevent that from happening? What are the safeguards that keep the FDA and CDC free from corruption?

Here is a damning example:

Most doctors and MD's know nothing about natural remedies. For example, thousands claim that apple cider vinegar works very well in removing warts (do a google search and you'll find that people are unanimous about this). Yet most doctors don't know about this. Instead, they prefer to prescribe expensive medicines and drugs with nasty side effects. Why? If many natural home remedies work just as well, why don't doctors ever recommend them?

Isn't the most logical conclusion that the pharmaceutical companies can't make any money off of natural remedies, and so they do not educate doctors about them?

What's the truth about all this?

Also, didn't Mike Wallace prove long ago that the CDC execs can and do deliberately lie? In this report about the 1976 swine flu hysteria on "60 Minutes", Wallace caught the CDC director LYING red handed about a number of things.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9DXYlg7Vyo

Doesn't that prove that the CDC is not the paragon of truth and integrity that we assume it is?

[momopi]

I have some questions.
Is the education that doctors receive influenced or controlled in any way by the pharmaceutical industry? If so, to what degree?
Who funds the medical schools that doctors go through? And how trustworthy and objective are they? How do we know they are free of greed, lies, and corruption? What's the proof?

Depends on the school. See here:
http://www.amsascorecard.org/
http://www.amsascorecard.org/methodology

And here:
http://www.pharmfree.org/
http://www.pharmfree.org/campaign/

Pharmaceutical Innovation

AMSA seeks to foster the innovation of safe and effective new drugs. Over the last twenty five years, only 2% of drugs were found to provide an important therapeutic innovation, while over 90% did not appear to offer any real benefit over already-available drugs (Prescrire International 2005). Strong, regulated collaboration of industry with academic medical centers is necessary for successful pharmaceutical innovation, but it is not sufficient. We believe that finding novel avenues for drug research funding, reforming the FDA drug approval process and bolstering NIH research will be critical to addressing the health challenges of the 21st century.

[Mystery]

Most of the budget of pharmacies goes into the education of doctors and promotion of their drugs. Very few budget goes into research and development because it isn't lucrative. Doctors aren't only teached at school, they have to go through continual formation to be up-to-date with the latest pharmaceutical fads. They'll often use fears to convince doctors of "doing the right thing" and they know people trust their doctor.

I know about a large hospital that opened in Mexico with some of the best doctors, cardiologists and specialists of USA who are tired of being "pharmaceutical prostitutes" as they say.

As for anything related to natural medicine, they are working hard to suppress those. I know some people who have companies of natural medicine and they have to go through a lot of challenges, often have to be discrete, and they are trying to pass laws to make such drugs illegal. I don´t know the state of the legal aspect though. Maybe some of these laws are already passed, maybe they are in the process of adding laws, maybe they´re trying but it won´t happen. Probably other people are more up-to-date on this.

[gsjackson]

Of all the theses you've put out there, Winston, this is the least controversial. Of course they are! Anyone who values his health will find a way not to become dependent on Big Pharma's pills.

[keius]

Pharm influences and tempts doctors. Doctors are just people, very human, and very very human. I trust my doctor no more than any other person. In other words, i don't trust my doctor that much. I do trust test results. And anything my doctor tells me...i research online and verify with other sources if i can. I especially did NOT TRUST doctors while i was in China.

Once again, they are just human. In general, people look out for their own interests first. I've been told by other people that it was a very pessimistic view and doesn't reflect on 'real' people...which is just BS. Some people just can't face the truth

[odbo]

no kidding they're corrupted.
doctors are like teachers or american women, very few good ones. and they face many obstacles from the system and from run of the mill/assholes for trying to do good.

many doctors are in masonic orders and other bullshit that would make a scumbag out of a once idealistic person. want to see something funny? next time you go see a doctor, hopefully right before you switch to another one.. ask him/her about chemtrails. chances are they'll look like they've seen a ghost (they've been well briefed on the subject but not the public obviously).

[Winston]

Here are some insights that someone told me in regards to my question:

I agree, MDs are right in the pockets of big pharma. Go into any hospital or many practices, and you will see the pharma company reps going door to door talking to the doctors, giving free samples, seeing if they met their sales targets.

Look at the MDs' pens, calendars, prescription pads etc. All Pharma company products. Then there's what you don't see... free vacations at the end of the year or large gifts for reaching various targets such as a 95% vaccination rate for infants.

That's why MDs start prescribing almost right away, without even bothering to listen, ask, think or diagnose. They tell you "try this and come back in a week if it doesn't work." More often than not, they KNOW it isn't going to work, but they don't care because they just make twice the profit.

People are brainwashed into believing:
- the doctor is always right
- doctors are honest
- doctors care about our health
- doctors are somehow charitable, not out to make a big salary

All wrong in most cases, certainly with conventional MDs. They are human, and as such just as greedy and opportunistic and fallible as anyone else.

The saddest thing for me here is to see poor people going into debt for years, just to pay for unnecessary and EXPENSIVE hospital stays and drugs because they BELIEVE everything the doctors and hospitals tell them.

Hospitals are like hotels. They have rooms, and they have a manager. They exist TO MAKE MONEY (why else?!) What does a hospital manager do when 18 out of 25 of the hospital's rooms aren't occupied? Same as a hotel manager -- fill them! How? By telling patients with even non-serious complaints that they "need to be admitted" -- even if it's only for "observation". It's criminal. Your hospital stay will drag on and on while the meter runs, unless you have the sense to know when you are better and ask to be discharged.

One example, the most common childhood illness and most common cause of death of under-5s. Pneumonia. Go to a hospital when your child has pneumonia, and they will tell you the ONLY way to cure the child is to be admitted for about 5 days, lie in bed (good luck with an energetic young child!) and receive intravenous antibiotics. Cost in the Philippines: About P40,000. What they don't tell you is that a simple course of the antibiotic Amoxycillin (cost: 40-80 Pesos, or roughly 1/1000th the cost of the hospital visit) is MORE effective. Yes, you read that right: Off-the-shelf cheap antibiotics are on average more effective at curing pneumonia than a hospital stay. A large study involving 5,000 young pneumonia patients in Asia showed a HIGHER survival rate of those treated at home with Amoxycillin than those staying in the hospital at 500-1,000X the cost. But will a hospital ever tell you that? No. Result: A poor family goes into debt to the tune of a year's gross earnings (which will take years to repay) when they could have spent just 2-3 hours' earnings to cure their child. Does the hospital care? No. In fact, they'll hold the patient like a prisoner with bills mounting by the day until the patient's bill is paid.

My advice to anyone seeing a doctor or hospital and receiving a prescription or a "we need to admit you" is:

- Ask EXACTLY what condition(s) you have been diagnosed with to merit this drug/admission/expense
- When told, ask HOW they know -- what tests confirmed the diagnosis
- Ask what would happen if you DON'T take the drug or admit the patient.

More often than not you will be met by a bad temper, an "I don't have to answer that, I'm a doctor", a "trust me, I'm a doctor"... or an outright hostile "how dare you question me?!" attitude. When you get this, it's time to find an honest doctor (good luck.)

It's time patients stopped taking this doctor bullshit and playing into the arms of pharmaceutical and hospital companies. Their behavior makes health a business pure and simple, where lives come after profit.

Educate yourself BEFORE seeing a doctor. See a DOCTOR first, not a HOSPITAL, because a hospital is more likely to tell you that you need to be admitted. A doctor will usually only admit you if it is serious.

[Adama]

Of all the theses you've put out there, Winston, this is the least controversial. Of course they are! Anyone who values his health will find a way not to become dependent on Big Pharma's pills.

I almost feel sorry for the people taking all those pills. It has been clear to me for years, except for the occasional antibiotic, those pills will kill the person who takes them.

The cure itself causes another disease, often worse than the first.

And the studies they use which demonstrate the safety of those pills, well they only conduct a couple of those for four to eight weeks. Then they declare that these pills are safe to take for decades.

How about all those poor babies who are unfortunately enough to have a mother who believes in this nonsense?

[Adama]

I had an infection that was causing me some terrible symptoms. I went to a few doctors and none had good recommendations.

After studying my own problem on google for a few months, I finally realized that I needed to be tested for a certain condition. Of course that meant I had to go in to see a doctor ($$$) to get tested. Then after getting the test results, I had to go back to the doctor again, just to get the prescription ($$$). I basically diagnosed myself. It is just I didn't have permission to order lab tests on myself or to write a prescription for antibiotics for myself.

I wasted a lot of money going to doctors.

I even met two doctors who, once we were alone in the room, they went into the homosexual lisp, which I assume is their way to fish out which men are undercover homos. Also had this one doctor who would turn the light off to look at my ocular ring, but I could hear his breath heavy in the dark.

[MrMan]

I even met two doctors who, once we were alone in the room, they went into the homosexual lisp, which I assume is their way to fish out which men are undercover homos. Also had this one doctor who would turn the light off to look at my ocular ring, but I could hear his breath heavy in the dark.

I'm assuming you mean they do this to recruit for after hours activities, but if they were acting to help with their diagnoses (since active homosexuals are at high risk for certain conditions), that's kind of clever.

[MrMan]

I don't think it's a big conspiracy on the part of the doctors, but it's the way the system operates. We have a medical culture where pharmaceutical companies try to come up with wonder drugs, using strange chemicals that they put together that may not show up in nature. Doctor's give patients the drugs. Drugs may have side effects, so doctors give the patient another drug.

The way big pharma works is they have 20 years on a drug before a patent expires. They come up with hundreds or thousands of possible drug combinations, working with chemicals in a lab and/or even computer simulations of the molecules. They run tests on these chemicals to see if they show any promise as a drug, following an FDA procedure. A small percentage make it to human trials. By the time they narrow down the drugs they are interested in and run human trials and get FDA approval, there may be 5 years left on the patent. So they charge a high price for drugs. Sales agents talk doctors into prescribing these new meds.

After the patent expires, they still own the brand name, but manufacturers can make generic versions of the same drugs.

US customers pay high prices for the new drugs. Other countries may ignore or not honor US patents on some drugs, or just go with generic products. American consumers subsidize the drug industry making the expensive drugs by paying high prices. Patents and high prices keep the system going. Patents encourage companies to make drugs.

This may be quasi-socialist, but I have read about this idea: the US government could create a competing drug-manufacturing industry through universities. They already give research grants. They could target the money toward research faculty who would make drugs to get published and for bragging rights and to go up the next notch in their careers. They might even share in the profits if the drug were farmed out to companies that usually make generics at a lower margin than big pharma companies. You'd have faculty and graduate assistants and some staff working hard to make new drugs for a $50k increase in pay, for example, reputation, and the ability to find job openings at other universities instead of companies doing the same to make billions. Giving out patents is interfering with the free market, anyway. Universities might be willing to invest in this if they started making money off of drugs.

I am not going to say all these medications are without merit, but some doctors just prescribe drugs for problems that could be suffered through or treated with more natural means like diet, exercise, or just natural remedies. Mainstream doctors aren't usually nutritionists or experts in natural treatments. Some of them are willing to prescribe drugs. Some older people have a bunch of meds, one med for an illness, and other meds to treat the side effects of the other meds they are taking.

Another issue with the current pharma system is that they try to make drugs for which there is a big market, not illnesses that effect small numbers of people.

[Winston]

@HouseMD what's your response to this thread?

I heard that according to the WHO (World Health Organization), every year approximately 100,000 Americans die from prescription drugs prescribed by their doctors legally, and not from overdose either, but from taking them exactly as prescribed by their doctors. Is that true? If so then why doesn't the government or media warn people about taking prescription drugs? 100k casualties is like 33 times more than the people who died on 9/11. So why isn't this a big issue? Why isn't there a war on big pharma?

Can you explain logically and honestly?

[MrMan]

@HouseMD what's your response to this thread?

I heard that according to the WHO (World Health Organization), every year approximately 100,000 Americans die from prescription drugs prescribed by their doctors legally, and not from overdose either, but from taking them exactly as prescribed by their doctors. Is that true? If so then why doesn't the government or media warn people about taking prescription drugs? 100k casualties is like 33 times more than the people who died on 9/11. So why isn't this a big issue? Why isn't there a war on big pharma?

Can you explain logically and honestly?

How many do drugs (supposedly) save? How many of those who die are in their 70's, 80's or older and are already on their death bed?

[gsjackson]

I guess their drugs nearly killed me. Last year I had a partial knee replacement, and there apparently was nerve damage that would wake me up after an hour. So I got a prescription from the doctor for hydrocodone, and would take it after I woke up to get back to sleep. Four weeks later I'm in the hospital with acute pancreatitis, with what the emergency room nurse said were the highest readings she had ever seen for that sometimes fatal condition.

I have no doubt whatsoever that the drugs caused the condition, but not only wouldn't the doctors entertain that possibility, they twisted my arm to let them take out my gall bladder. They got off of that pretty quickly when a counselor type who came in found out I was a lawyer. Only after leaving the hospital "against medical advice" did I find out from my GP that their own tests showed I had no gallstones.

Scary stuff. Good thing to know, though, that I won't be getting addicted to opioids, since they nearly killed me in just a few weeks.

[Adama]

I guess their drugs nearly killed me. Last year I had a partial knee replacement, and there apparently was nerve damage that would wake me up after an hour. So I got a prescription from the doctor for hydrocodone, and would take it after I woke up to get back to sleep. Four weeks later I'm in the hospital with acute pancreatitis, with what the emergency room nurse said were the highest readings she had ever seen for that sometimes fatal condition.

I have no doubt whatsoever that the drugs caused the condition, but not only wouldn't the doctors entertain that possibility, they twisted my arm to let them take out my gall bladder. They got off of that pretty quickly when a counselor type who came in found out I was a lawyer. Only after leaving the hospital "against medical advice" did I find out from my GP that their own tests showed I had no gallstones.

Scary stuff. Good thing to know, though, that I won't be getting addicted to opioids, since they nearly killed me in just a few weeks.

I don't mean to pry, and feel free to ignore this question if you like. I've always heard that if you leave AMA that you have to pay the bill yourself, as the insurance company takes this as a loophole to escape reimbursement. Did they try to make you pay for leaving AMA?

How is your nerve pain now?

Was the counselor one of those social workers?

I wonder, if when you tried to connect the condition with the pain killer, if they began their sentence with, "According to the scientific literature there are no cases like this..."