Questions about genetically modified food

[Winston]

I have a question.

Some of you said genetically modified food in the US was damaging to your health and emotions, causing people to become more tense.

How do you avoid genetically modified foods in the US or anywhere? I was told that food in Taiwan is also genetically modified.

But how can you know which foods are and which aren't? I mean food does not say "genetically modified" on its label.

If genetically modified food is unhealthy and makes one tense, then why did the FDA approve it? Aren't there studies measuring its effects?

[Winston]

How come my scientific advisor says genetically modified foods are safe?

On Wed, 12 May 2010, Happier Abroad vociferated:

}I have a question.
}
}Some say that genetically modified food in the US was damaging to your
}health and emotions, causing people to become more tense.

Baloney.

}How do you avoid genetically modified foods in the US or anywhere? I was
}told that food in Taiwan is also genetically modified.

Virtually /all/ food is genetically modified. What do you think
selective cross-breeding is?

}But how can you know which foods are and which aren't? I mean food does not
}say "genetically modified" on its label.

It doesn't, because there's no universal definition of what "genetically
modified" means. Whenever one plant is fertilized with pollen from
another plant, the resulting seed/offspring is genetically modified
with respect to the parent-plants.

Labeling food "genetically modified" would be rather like labeling it "edible".


}If genetically modified food is unhealthy and makes one tense,

Other than the fact that unhealthy and tense people also eat, there
is no evidence that eating is the cause of these vague conditions.


}then why did the FDA approve it? Aren't there studies measuring its effects?
}
}Any idea?

Genetically -engineered- food has been tested by the FDA, even though
genetic engineering is just a faster way of achieving genetic modification
that would occur through traditional food-raising processes, anyway.

"Because FDA determined that bioengineered foods should be
regulated like their conventional counterparts, FDA has
not to date established any regulations specific to
bioengineered food."

Here is a good summary of the FDA's position:

http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Testimony/ucm115032.htm


Dr H

On Thu, 13 May 2010, Happier Abroad vociferated:

}But organic food is not genetically modified right?

Depends on what you mean by "genetically modified," and what
you mean by "organic". There are not any universally agreed
upon definitions for either term.


}I thought genetically modified meant that some evil scientists were
}manipulating the DNA of food in a lab? lol Like in a Frankenstein movie? lol

Like I said -- *all* food is genetically modified. Cross breeding,
cross pollination, culling, developing hybrids -- these are all
means of manipulating DNA to produce specific desirable characteristics.

Just to take one example, there aren't very many people on the planet
who eat bread made from spelt. Instead, most of the population eats
bread made from wheat, and wheat is the end result of countless
generations of genetic manipulation on spelt. So anybody who consumes
bread or any kind of wheat product is eating genetically modified food.

I think you may be confusing "genetic modification" with "genetic
engineering". Genetic engineering is a way of fast-tracking the
process of genetic modification through direct manipulation of DNA
in the lab. That's a whole different animal, although it essentially
accomplishes the same end result as more traditional practices --
genetic modification.

There are theoretical possibilities with genetic engineering that
/might/ not be possible with more traditional genetic modification,
such as bringing traits across distinct species lines. But even here
what is really being accomplished is directed mutation. In theory
the genetic material could mutate on its own into the desired configuration,
but left to random factors it might take tens of thousands of years to
accomplish what genetic engineering can accomplish in months or even weeks.

And there \are\ pretty stringent regulations in place governing the
protocols, testing, and application of the recombinant DNA activities
that make up most of genetic engineering.


}Some say that eating food in the US makes one more tense and fat though. I
}find that to be the case too. But it might be the environment, especially in
}a busy place like the SF Bay Area. lol

People in the US get fat because they eat too much or if they're
not eating too much, too much of what they \are\ eating is junk food.

It's possible to eat a healthy diet -- and stay thin -- in the US
simply by doing more grocery shopping in the produce aisle and less
in the frozen-foods and cookies & chips aisle.

Nutritionists and food scientists have done a lot of research in
the past 30 years. What they've found is that pretty much the only
thing that definitely happens if you choose only organic food is
that you spend more money, faster. There are no demonstrated health
benefits from eating all organic, as opposed to eating the same
stuff as "regular" food.

And the US, being what we are, has even cranked-out mountains of
all-organic junk food. You can buy organic pizza, organic chips,
and even organic beer. If all you eat is pizza, chips, and beer
you're going to be fat and unhealthy even if you only eat strictly
organic versions of these products. And I've known people who
did this.



What makes the difference is how one -balances- their diet, not
whether one eats organic, or bio-engineered, or "regular" food.
While I wouldn't necessarily recommend veganism or strict vegetarianism
most Americans -could- stand to cut down on the amount of meat
they eat by as much as 75%, and they'd be thinner and healthier
for the change.

I mean -- good grief! -- Wendy's is now offering a "quadruple cheese
baconator" burger: 4-patties of meat (a whole pound), 4-slices of
cheese (a quarter pound), and a 1/4 pound of bacon. And this is
must on ONE burger.

I can feel my arteries hardening just looking at a picture of the
damned thing.


Outside of North America (and certain parts of South America) most
of the rest of the world eats a lot less meat. They don't have the
huge free-range available for raising cattle, for one thing. But
mostly, they're better off for it.


Dr H

[momopi]

That's 2 pieces of fried chicken in place of buns. With sandwitches like that, GM Foods is pretty low on my list of things to worry about.

If you want to take control of exactly what you're eating, you can grow your own food. Check rural areas of Taiwan (Nantou?) and see if there's cheap old houses with land for rent. Talk to the indigenous "mountain people" in Taiwan for their aboriginal cusine like millet, taro, mountain veggies (sansai), and so on. If you're lazy, you can just go eat at aboriginal restaurants in TW:

http://www.amcham.com.tw/content/view/1098/357/

[ultraviolet]

There's a great book by Michael Pollan called "In Defense of Food" where he has a motto:

"Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants."

When Pollan says "eat food", what he means is, eat natural food.

As far as organic goes, if you are in North America, there are little stickers with 4 or 5 digit codes on fruits and vegetables. The organic fruits and vegetables are usually 5-digit and start with the number "9", so organic would be: 9xxxx.

As momopi mentioned, first of all eat healthy, so given the choice between non-organic fried chicken and non-organic roasted chicken, take the roasted. And the choice between fries or baked potato, take the baked potato (or even better, skip major carbs like rice, bread, potatoes and eat more salad instead). And then worry about organic.

These are some of the foods I try to keep well stocked, I find that I can quickly whip something up with this that is healthier:

Meats:
- Eggs (organic)
- Steak from Coscto (non-organic but good) for BBQ
- Salmon fillets (non-organic)
- Ground beef (free range organic fresh from a local farm)
- Roast chicken (non-organic from Coscto or local supermarket - very inexpensive)

Fruits
- Bananas (organic) - when you're very hungry, quickly grab one of these and then make a healthier meal
- Blueberries (organic) for smoothies
- Apples (organic) for smoothies
- Whatever is in season and organic

Vegetables (all organic)
- Kale - lightly steamed it's delicious, and also good for smoothies, as well stir fry with some vegetarian oyster sauce, amazing
- Spinach - for smoothies
- Broccoli - a major staple for me, steamed as well
- Brussel Sprouts - also a major staple, steamed
- Red bell pepper - I just eat this raw, love the taste of it
- Red cabbage - stir fry with some vegetarian oyster sauce, amazing
- Whatever is in season and organic

Other
- Raw cacao - amazing for you - between this, medicinal mushrooms and real spring water, you could live off of this
- Bee pollen - for smoothies
- Gogi berries - for smoothies
- Almond milk - a raw cacao, banana and almond milk smoothie that is out of this world

[Think Different]

That's 2 pieces of fried chicken in place of buns. With sandwitches like that, GM Foods is pretty low on my list of things to worry about.

No worries, man. It's OK to eat that, so long as that super-sized Pepsi is "diet".

[BellaRuth]

I'm not sure what to think about GM food. I considered going into biology, and when I read about GM food in some pop-science books it seemed perfectly sensible.

However now I'd rather steer clear. Here in the UK, and in many countries in Europe, companies make the effort to ban GM ingredients. I find myself wondering why.

There's also the fact that, at the end of the day, we evolved eating certain foods. Are we wise enough to tamper with these on a microscopic scale and keep them safe for consumption? Can we foresee every pothole? I doubt it. I'd verge on the side of caution.

Best to stick to raw, organic food whenever possible, in my opinion. But I also think there's more to worry about than GM food. Processed, refined junk and factory-farmed meat, for example.

PS... can hardly believe that sandwich is real. Do people actually eat it?

[Think Different]

I tend to agree with Winston's advisor. The whole GM food thing, while having a kernel of truth, is definitely blown out of proportion. The key is to stay away from PROCESSED foods, and stick to complex carbs, veggies, fruit, and protein (fish, chicken, limited red meat), have a glass of red wine every day, and for crying aloud, CHILL OUT! You can do more damage stressing about what the heck to stick in your mouth, than what you're actually putting in it. It's about moderation in everything and common sense, folks.

[globetrotter]

I tend to agree with Winston's advisor. The whole GM food thing, while having a kernel of truth, is definitely blown out of proportion. The key is to stay away from PROCESSED foods, and stick to complex carbs, veggies, fruit, and protein (fish, chicken, limited red meat), have a glass of red wine every day, and for crying aloud, CHILL OUT! You can do more damage stressing about what the heck to stick in your mouth, than what you're actually putting in it. It's about moderation in everything and common sense, folks.

You are assuming that we know all that there is to know about GMO foods. Just look at Americans compared to other people -- it's a common sense conclusion that the combination of fast food, processed food, sedentary lifestyle, GMO food, non-fat and no-sugar substitutes, preservatives and stabilisers are making Americans sick and fat. You might not remember what people looked like in 1980 or 1985 but I do. Americans of that time looked like Europeans of today; slim, trim and healthier in appearance than the Americans of 2010.

When I eat beef in Mexico it tastes differently, it digests differently, it metabolises differently than beef in the USA.

The last steak I ate in the USA sat like a rock in my gut. It just felt unnatural compared to the beef tacos I ate in Mexico, or compared to the pork that sits on a table by the roadside in any Chinese market. This was an expensive steak at a top-shelf steak house in L.A. Monsanto seeds travel with the wind and are slowly but surely cross-pollinating all of the food stock on the North American continent, Mexico and Canada included. Any produce in NA will soon by GMO, even organic.

The only solution is to only eat organic foods from super-expensive stores, or to move outside of the USA.

[Think Different]

I must have good genes, because I'm in good shape and fitter than I was 20 years ago. That being said, my wife and I focus on healthy home-made meals, since we have the time and desire to do so. We also RARELY eat out at restaurants, which saves us money too, besides the fact that most of the restaurant food is bland (except Asian) and far too salty.

We do buy organic veggies, but we realize that it is also becoming somewhat of a scam cottage industry here in the US, too, wherein just about anyone can claim "organic" with no FDA validation. We just do what we can and hope for the best.

[Winston]

[momopi]

If you're bored, you can search for "GMO" at http://www.backwoodshome.com/forum/vb/index.php and find lots of anti-GMO food posts.


Our ancestors were genetically modifying plants and animals from 10,000 years ago, through the process of selective breeding/cross-breeding and domestication. The "organic" produce that you buy at supermarkets are GM crops, and the pet dog or cat in your house is a GM domesticated pet.

What is not GM is the wolf that runs wild, and possibly the Canadian "wild rice" grown in Saskatchewan below to the left:

[have2fly]

When I eat beef in Mexico it tastes differently, it digests differently, it metabolises differently than beef in the USA.

The last steak I ate in the USA sat like a rock in my gut.

Wow! Globetrotter is probably the best open-minded guy in this thread! Exactly on point! When I was in France, every piece of bread, whole milk, fatty cheese tasted good, smelled great and I never had any heartburn (only once when I ate too much and went to sleep right away). I mean all foods, even really fatty ones in France are good, digest and feel good!

Let me tell you, In United States I get heartburn almost everyday, digestive problems, stool problems and overall weak feeling of the body. The food that I eat in the USA is fat-free or low fat, I try to buy lean meat and lots of vegies and cook at home. Nevertheless, quality of food in the USA is horrible and I can feel it in my body. Why do you think Americans are so fat, sick and terrible looking people? Food is the answer and also sitting lifestyle of course. Drive-up banking, drive-up pharmacy and drive-up fast-food... Wow, how about drive-up toilets, drive-up blowjobs and drive-up living rooms? Then people in America just won't need to walk or use their legs at all! (So f***ed up, not even funny).

So whatever it is. GM-food, hormones, pesticides, preservatives or antibiotics - USA food is f***ed up big time! The best way to find out if it's true? Go and live abroad for a few months!

[Winston]

When I eat beef in Mexico it tastes differently, it digests differently, it metabolises differently than beef in the USA.

The last steak I ate in the USA sat like a rock in my gut.

Wow! Globetrotter is probably the best open-minded guy in this thread! Exactly on point! When I was in France, every piece of bread, whole milk, fatty cheese tasted good, smelled great and I never had any heartburn (only once when I ate too much and went to sleep right away). I mean all foods, even really fatty ones in France are good, digest and feel good!

Let me tell you, In United States I get heartburn almost everyday, digestive problems, stool problems and overall weak feeling of the body. The food that I eat in the USA is fat-free or low fat, I try to buy lean meat and lots of vegies and cook at home. Nevertheless, quality of food in the USA is horrible and I can feel it in my body. Why do you think Americans are so fat, sick and terrible looking people? Food is the answer and also sitting lifestyle of course. Drive-up banking, drive-up pharmacy and drive-up fast-food... Wow, how about drive-up toilets, drive-up blowjobs and drive-up living rooms? Then people in America just won't need to walk or use their legs at all! (So f***ed up, not even funny).

So whatever it is. GM-food, hormones, pesticides, preservatives or antibiotics - USA food is f***ed up big time! The best way to find out if it's true? Go and live abroad for a few months!

If that's so, then there IS some sort of conspiracy regarding food in America or at least something we're not told about it.

But even educated intelligent people like Momopi can't see it cause they assume that establishment sources of info are the highest source of truth, and go by that. They can't see beyond that due to their lifelong programming. That is the obvious flaw, but those inside that line of thinking can't see it, cause their beliefs edit their reality.

[momopi]

The FDA defines GMO foods as those produced by recombinant DNA (rDNA) techniques, used to introduce new characteristics or traits into an organism. Traditional GM techniques such as fruit tree propagation (grafting mutation) developed in China 4,000 years ago are not considered GMO, because the products are already widespread and considered the "norm" as opposed to the "wild' variety.

To date the FDA has NOT approved any GMO animals for consumption. The first GMO animal (fish) in process of approval is the Aqua-Advantage Salmon, genetically modified by injecting genes from eels into a Salmon to make it grow faster:
http://www.usatoday.com/yourlife/food/s ... 5_ST_N.htm

GMO food in the EU:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8545503.stm

But even educated intelligent people like Momopi can't see it cause they assume that establishment sources of info are the highest source of truth, and go by that. They can't see beyond that due to their lifelong programming. That is the obvious flaw, but those inside that line of thinking can't see it, cause their beliefs edit their reality.

If you haven't seen the movie "Gattaca", I highly recommend it. I think within our lifetime, parents in some countries will utilize pre-implantation genetic diagnosis (PGD) to make designer babies. Those who can afford it and utilize technology will produce taller, stronger, faster, smarter, and better looking children with extended lifespans.

When I "look beyond" the GM/GMO/stem cell/genetic engineering/etc. controversy, I think of nation-states with extensive space programs developing custom babies as future astronauts, with modified genes that will combat bone mass loss in zero-G or low-G environment, plus enhanced spatial awareness & other upgrades. You, can think whatever you like within the confines of a conspiracy.

In Allan Bloom's "The Closing of the American Mind", he argued that the education system does nothing to contest its own teachings, instead, it spoon feeds it. You can replace the "education system" with "the government", "the authority", or any other target of choice for your arguments. Personally, I don't care what position the US/EU/etc government take on genetic engineering, because technology marches forward, and what you won't develop and utilize, someone else will. Reprogenetics and trans-humanism will likely be the next step in human evolution regardless of opposition. Same goes for GMO food. If this universe is a vast library, then we are slowly but surely cracking open the books one by one, taking away the illusions of mystery.

http://www.cnngo.com/bangkok/life/creat ... ies-899751

-------------

As for the rest of ya'll, my coworker is a former Mr. California competitor (body builder). If you're concerned about what you're eating in the US, this is what he has to say:

* Stop eating fast food, start cooking yourself
* Eat Tuna fish and Orange Roughy, Brown Rice, Chicken breast (white meat)
* Eat lots of veggies. Steam your veggies. Broccoli is the best
* Eat smaller amount of fruits and skim milk
* Skip most diary products, don't eat white rice or potato
* Once a week (Saturdays for him), you can have a "free day" that you get to eat whatever you want in moderate amounts.
* Drink MET-RX shakes and hit the gym. Yes, MET-RX is GMO. ;p



p.s. Those in TW looking for different-tasting beef can try Islamic restaurants serving halal foods. The beef noodle served there use beef from Chinese Southern Yellow Cattle (Zebu). The noodle is usually served in clear beef soup because most soy sauce are not halal. Obviously, being a different breed of cattle, it's going to taste differently from an angus beef steak.

[Winston]

I have some questions.

1. How do I know if the food I buy in the supermarket is GMO or not?

2. What is the food companies' excuse for introducing GMO foods? What benefit or advantage from it do they cite?

3. In David Icke's last event at Wembley, he said that corn in the US is GMO, and that it contains spermicide designed to kill off your sperm to make you infertile, because the elite's agenda is to eliminate sex and relationships so that technology can be used to create offspring rather than humans. Is that true?

This explains why GMO foods are dangerous:

http://www.nongmoshoppingguide.com/why- ... -gmos.html