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The Nectar of The Gods: Testosterone and Hormone Replacement Therapy

Discuss health, wellness, fitness, nutrition and food.

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Contrarian Expatriate
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The Nectar of The Gods: Testosterone and Hormone Replacement Therapy

Post by Contrarian Expatriate » February 6th, 2019, 5:38 am

For those of you over 35, you may have wondered about the hoopla around Testoterone Replacement Therapy or Hormone Replacement Therapy. I have just started this program and I am feeling the benefits already.

For some background, I have been slowing down the last 2 years in terms of less energy, less interest in sliding up into the guts of hot girls, and brain fog (less concentration, less focus, less mental intensity). I have been aware that much of this is due to the natural reduction of testosterone as a man entering the final 3rd of his life. I tried working out more when I had the energy. I tried boron supplements, DHEA, pumpkin seeds, and many other so-called testosterone boosting strategies. They all failed so don't waste your time and money on them.

So after doing some research, I decided to go to an anti-aging specialist to have blood work done up. Even though I am a 6'4", muscular, NFL tight end looking guy, my testosterone levels were extremely low! My ego took a huge shock because I thought I would be in the top 5% in T levels for men my age.

Consequently, I have just started Hormone Replacement Therapy under the care of a physician less than a week ago, and I am already feeling significant improvements which will only increase in the coming weeks.

In just a few days, I want to work out each day and I have to force myself to take recovery days off. I am walking taller than I have in decades for some reason and I have a spring in my step that I have not experienced in years. I have lost 3 pounds of fat in 4 days also.

At the risk of endorsing this process so early on, I want to encourage any of you feeling the effects of aging to look into getting your T levels checked and to supplement them to those of a man in his 20s for the biggest boost you could imagine.

Upsides:
-Increased physical energy
-Increased mental energy
-Muscle build-up and retention
-Fat (especially visceral fat) loss
-It can darken gray hair to a certain extent
-Google at former NFL TE Shannon Sharpe who is my age and size and get the picture of what it does.

Downsides:
-It is expensive and insurance plans do not cover it since it is considered preventative health care.
-It involves a few injections and oral medication to ward off estrogen, to keep your body producing testosterone, and to maximine the health benefits.
-If you are a traveler like me, it means lugging these compounds around the world in a suitcase (one of which must remain chilled), with a doctor's note and prescriptions.

But guess what, it is all proving to be worth it!

My primary care physician tried to talk me out of the program because he said not a lot is known about the long term impact of these treatments and it could affect me when I am at the end of life. I responded, "Everyone's life sucks at the end, but I am not going to forgo 30 more years of optimal living just so the final few will be a little less sucky than it would be!" He actually shut up as if he agreed with the logic!

So all of you former Alpha males who slayed it with the ladies, in sports, in the boardroom and in the bedroom, you can get back to that state.

There is an interesting discussion in the video (please excuse their joking about "taking steriods" in the beginning, but it evolves into a very useful discussion of TRT):



Keep in mind, this has little in common with sports performance "juicing" which brings T levels to about 1500- 2000 nanograms per deciliter (ng/dL) instead of the normal 500 to 900. Also, these therapies are legal under the care of medical specialists and they are safe when done in conjunction with periodic monitoring and adjustments as required. Juicing leaves men sterile and leads them to early death, while these therapies actually can extend life by giving men energy to keep their hearts healthy, their blood pressure low, and their bodies muscular, lean, and strong.

Word of caution, don't consider the cheaper gels, creams, and oral medications because these are far less effective and actually do damage to kidneys and the liver. Injections don't have that risk. Also, testosterone alone is horrible, because you have to take other medications that counter the aforementioned side effects to keep you firing on all cylinders. These are factors that require a anti-aging physician's deft oversight.




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Re: The Nectar of The Gods: Testosterone and Hormone Replacement Therapy

Post by gsjackson » February 6th, 2019, 2:34 pm

Did you try the standard dietary hacks -- estrogen scavengers such as broccoli and cabbage, grass-fed beef, eggs, etc.? I've read that standing up straight can boost your T 25 percent -- making better posture a cause as well as an effect of higher T -- so another possible route is steps to improve your posture such as back braces.

Besides the cost and inconvenience, my concern about TRT is that it supposedly diminishes your ability to generate your own T. At 68, the only clear symptom of lower T I seem to have is diminished libido, but that could well be because I live in the U.S. most of the year and go months in between sightings of attractive women. I'm quite serious. When I do see one that rings my bell, the old arousal mechanisms kick in just like back in the day, but I just don't see them. Rather it's daily anti-arousal by the tattooed land whales.

A cautionary tale on steroids, which I understand is different from TRT. A fraternity brother of mine was a world-class distance runner -- second-best college cross country runner after Steve Prefontaine, Olympic miler for the U.S. in '72. He took steroids in the early '70s -- a distance runner for God's sake -- because he wanted his finishing kick to be stronger. He died at 58.

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Re: The Nectar of The Gods: Testosterone and Hormone Replacement Therapy

Post by Contrarian Expatriate » February 6th, 2019, 7:57 pm

gsjackson wrote:
February 6th, 2019, 2:34 pm
Did you try the standard dietary hacks -- estrogen scavengers such as broccoli and cabbage, grass-fed beef, eggs, etc.? I've read that standing up straight can boost your T 25 percent -- making better posture a cause as well as an effect of higher T -- so another possible route is steps to improve your posture such as back braces.
Good question GS. Dietary strategies in my case would not be effective, because I needed about 5 to 6 times the level of testosterone to put me at the point of about a 25 to 30 year old. A mere 25% increase would have left me well short of a man my actual age. More importantly, the overall level of testosterone is far less important that the "free testosterone" level which is what the body actually uses. I was even more deficient with free testosterone so diet, posture, and excersize were simply not enough to get me feeling like I feel now, and I am not even finished the first week!

I have workout energy, I feel my muscles starting bulge back from a workout 4 days prior, and I have the energy to hit the town late at night without getting too tired. I also feel the "brain fog" of aging dissipating and that will continue to improve a lot more down the line.
gsjackson wrote: Besides the cost and inconvenience, my concern about TRT is that it supposedly diminishes your ability to generate your own T. At 68, the only clear symptom of lower T I seem to have is diminished libido, but that could well be because I live in the U.S. most of the year and go months in between sightings of attractive women. I'm quite serious. When I do see one that rings my bell, the old arousal mechanisms kick in just like back in the day, but I just don't see them. Rather it's daily anti-arousal by the tattooed land whales.
The only way you can know if you are deficient is to get your blood tested. Remember, prior to my test I was convinced that my T levels were going to be in the top 5% of men my age given my muscular size, strength, and workout habits. It turned out I was in the lowest 5% for my age group and that explained the fatigue, inability to recover from workouts normally, and diminished mental focus and sharpness. All that is changing and I have only had one shot 5 days ago!

About the lowered ability to generate your own T, you are correct and that is why my physician requires me to take HCG which tells the body to continue to produce my own T. Any physician that does not give you medication to prevent Estrogen increase, to continue to produce your own T should be avoided. My doc also prescribes a med that shrinks the prostate and stops the damage that sugar does to the body and creates a non-hospitable environment for cancer cells to develop and grow.
gsjackson wrote: A cautionary tale on steroids, which I understand is different from TRT. A fraternity brother of mine was a world-class distance runner -- second-best college cross country runner after Steve Prefontaine, Olympic miler for the U.S. in '72. He took steroids in the early '70s -- a distance runner for God's sake -- because he wanted his finishing kick to be stronger. He died at 58.
I have always been against steroid use, even as a young man. I think of seedy dealers giving illegal supplies with no medical advice nor warnings about the consequences. Lyle Alzado, and several others also died due to steroid use.

Hormone Replacement Therapy extends and enhances life for older men. it uses low amounts of pure testosterone along with other medications, that counter negative side effects, and the treatments are monitored closely and adjusted by the physician with blood sample analysis every 3 months. I consider steroids and Hormone Replacement Therapy to be completely different animals because one is life shortening and the other sees men continue doing well into their 80's. Men usually HRT when the cognitive functions begin to fail, and that journey down that road we all must take begins. But what prevents cognitive decline? Lack of physical activity and mobility is a HUGE factor that starts the shut down of the brain. So if you can jog, run, dance, lift and do the elliptical machines until your are in your 80s, you will have a healthier heart, brain, blood pressure and physical structure to keeps you vibrant for longer.

At 68, you might stand to benefit more than I am at this point. Take a look at this guy:


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Re: The Nectar of The Gods: Testosterone and Hormone Replacement Therapy

Post by gsjackson » February 6th, 2019, 11:27 pm

Honestly, I think I look better and certainly younger than that guy, who is actually 11 years younger, but you can judge for yourself as I'm going to start throwing some Youtube videos out in a few weeks and post them here. He is doing a tad better than I with the gut. Fighting back the paunch -- which to some extent is hereditary judging by the older generations of men in my family, and perhaps also diastasis recti is a contributing factor -- is a constant challenge.

Other concerns I have with TRT: I'd have to get T levels tested by a disinterested party, since I don't trust any doctor who makes his living selling the therapy. That's becoming quite a nice little income stream for some of them, judging by a local guy who has an advertising budget that allows him to hit every radio station I listen to with ads all day every day.

Also, there's a lot of cancer in my family, including my sister, who developed endometrial cancer six months after starting hormone replacement therapy. And I apparently have a low tolerance for drugs, as four weeks of taking one hydrocodone pill a day after knee surgery put me in the hospital for three days with acute pancreatitis. My system just doesn't seem to tolerate the outside agents well.

Vitamin D from the sun is supposed to increase T, and I have an unlimited supply of that here in Arizona, which I regularly take advantage of. Don't know if it has the same effects on black skin, but for me with white skin that tans easily it is clearly beneficial.

There's an online forum I go to called transformetrics living strength, and the guy who runs it, John Peterson, is as fit and buff as anybody of any age at 66. He's been threatening for years to come out with a dietary regimen and exercise system based on isometrics that he says will boost T levels dramatically without replacement therapy. I'm curious enough to check it out.

So you're right -- I should get T level tested, but would try everything under the sun (no pun intended) before even considering injections. Glad it's working for you, and I hope you'll continue to post your results.

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Re: The Nectar of The Gods: Testosterone and Hormone Replacement Therapy

Post by Contrarian Expatriate » February 8th, 2019, 12:00 am

This doctor nails it.....


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Re: The Nectar of The Gods: Testosterone and Hormone Replacement Therapy

Post by E Irizarry R&B Singer » February 8th, 2019, 3:12 am

Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
February 8th, 2019, 12:00 am
This doctor nails it.....

Oh she needs to get nailed. Those Carly Simon, Margaret Houihan lips!
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Re: The Nectar of The Gods: Testosterone and Hormone Replacement Therapy

Post by Winston » February 9th, 2019, 6:56 pm

My friend Mr S has been having good results with these HGH supplements from iherb.com. He said they make him feel younger and have helped reduced his body fat too. But he is exercising while using them. What do you guys think? I think they boost HGH but do not contain HGH itself right? Will this work for all of us? If so, to what extent? Take a look at the ingredient list below and let me know what you think.

Btw, iherb.com ships to Asia using DHL Express for under 10 dollars if you order over $30 of products from them, which is an amazing deal and arrives in about 3 days. I don't work for them but I do order regularly from them too.

https://www.iherb.com/pr/Source-Natural ... blets/4615
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Re: The Nectar of The Gods: Testosterone and Hormone Replacement Therapy

Post by Winston » February 9th, 2019, 6:57 pm

Btw CE:

Can any doctor test your testosterone level or only certain types? Where do you go to get it tested if you're in Asia?

Also, have you checked prices in other countries for Hormone Replacement Therapy? It should be cheaper abroad right?

Can you explain what HRT is exactly? What does it involve and what treatment do you undergo? Does it consist of shots and supplements? Can you just do supplements only since shots are usually more expensive?
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Re: The Nectar of The Gods: Testosterone and Hormone Replacement Therapy

Post by Contrarian Expatriate » February 9th, 2019, 10:17 pm

Winston wrote:
February 9th, 2019, 6:57 pm
Btw CE:

Can any doctor test your testosterone level or only certain types? Where do you go to get it tested if you're in Asia?
You can request blood test for T levels from any doctor, but you must be sure that the test include total testosterone level and the more important free testosterone level. They will also tell you your t levels are fine if they are in a normal range (ie 300-500) when you should aiming for OPTIMAL range of 800 to 1000 to look and feel more vibrant, healthy, and strong. So tread carefully with a normal doctor.

I also would NOT recommend any treatment from a doctor that does not specialize in Hormone Replacement Therapy or Anti-Aging therapy. The specialists know how to specifically design what your body lacks, how to counter any estrogen increases, and how to monitor your levels every three months or so. Ordinary doctors don't tend to provide HCG (Keeps your body producing its own testosterone) or B Complex MIC (for fat loss and energy boosts). I have heard horror stories from non-specialists providing gels, creams, patches and other inferior means of boosting T which wreaks havoc on your kidneys and liver. Injections do not have those negative effects.
Winston wrote: Also, have you checked prices in other countries for Hormone Replacement Therapy? It should be cheaper abroad right?
I would presume so, but I am wary of medical procedures done overseas. I have had to have thousands of dollars of corrective work done due to incorrect dental work overseas in the past. The only exception I might make is to find cheaper injections of human growth hormone which is about $12,000 a year in the USA. Pills are not a good option because your body digests too much of it away.
Winston wrote: Can you explain what HRT is exactly? What does it involve and what treatment do you undergo? Does it consist of shots and supplements? Can you just do supplements only since shots are usually more expensive?
I prefer to focus on TRT because HRT involves treating women. Any specialist worth his salt insists on shots because they are safer and more effective than pills, patches, and gels. If I could not inject, I would not do TRT personally. My doctor looked at my supplements and had me discard DHEA, Hydroxycut, and creatine powder because they are all very harmful. He also had me retain my other supplements of Multi vitamin/mineral, tumeric, cinnamon, resveratrol, probiotics, garlic and saw palmetto.

This guy in the video breaks it all down very well for you.


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Re: The Nectar of The Gods: Testosterone and Hormone Replacement Therapy

Post by MrMan » February 10th, 2019, 10:57 pm

I tried tongkat ali/ling jack when I was lifting weights a lot I cannot say it really helped with building muscle mass or increased sex drive. I did not need more sex drive. I could see how you might think it was increasing testosterone if you wanted to believe that. Maybe it did. It is supposed to help you retain free testosterone.

I bought about a kg of tongkat ali online when I lived in Indonesia. It has a truly vile bitter taste. It makes chewing a tylenol to be like eating a jolly rancher. I put the stuff in capsules.

Do any of you think this stuff works?

Tongkat

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Re: The Nectar of The Gods: Testosterone and Hormone Replacement Therapy

Post by Contrarian Expatriate » February 11th, 2019, 8:36 am

MrMan wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 10:57 pm
I tried tongkat ali/ling jack when I was lifting weights a lot I cannot say it really helped with building muscle mass or increased sex drive. I did not need more sex drive. I could see how you might think it was increasing testosterone if you wanted to believe that. Maybe it did. It is supposed to help you retain free testosterone.

I bought about a kg of tongkat ali online when I lived in Indonesia. It has a truly vile bitter taste. It makes chewing a tylenol to be like eating a jolly rancher. I put the stuff in capsules.

Do any of you think this stuff works?

Tongkat
According to WebMD, Eurycoma Longifolia (AKA Tongkat Ali) MIGHT slightly increase testosterone, but such is not clear. But even if it does increase testosterone, it certainly does not raise testosterone back to optimal levels. If your T levels are at 300 and Tongkat Ali increases it to 350 or 400, pragmatically speaking, you have not done yourself any good when optimal levels are 800 to 1000.

Testosterone therapy does that and the HCG makes the body continue to produce it. Taking such supplements mean very little unless your hormone levels are being monitored by a physician via periodic blood tests.

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Re: The Nectar of The Gods: Testosterone and Hormone Replacement Therapy

Post by MrMan » February 12th, 2019, 2:52 am

Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
February 11th, 2019, 8:36 am
MrMan wrote:
February 10th, 2019, 10:57 pm
I tried tongkat ali/ling jack when I was lifting weights a lot I cannot say it really helped with building muscle mass or increased sex drive. I did not need more sex drive. I could see how you might think it was increasing testosterone if you wanted to believe that. Maybe it did. It is supposed to help you retain free testosterone.

I bought about a kg of tongkat ali online when I lived in Indonesia. It has a truly vile bitter taste. It makes chewing a tylenol to be like eating a jolly rancher. I put the stuff in capsules.

Do any of you think this stuff works?

Tongkat
According to WebMD, Eurycoma Longifolia (AKA Tongkat Ali) MIGHT slightly increase testosterone, but such is not clear. But even if it does increase testosterone, it certainly does not raise testosterone back to optimal levels. If your T levels are at 300 and Tongkat Ali increases it to 350 or 400, pragmatically speaking, you have not done yourself any good when optimal levels are 800 to 1000.

Testosterone therapy does that and the HCG makes the body continue to produce it. Taking such supplements mean very little unless your hormone levels are being monitored by a physician via periodic blood tests.
I'm capable of sex every day, so I don't really see a need to get myself tested for 'low T'. But I might be open to it as I age. Are there any health problems if you are 50 or 60 and have the testosterone of a 20 year old? Does it increase the risk of cancer or some other disease? Does it make your back harrier and your head balder if you use it? Shooting up with bull testosterone or whatever it is seems unnatural, and I wonder if there are some consequences.

I've read that tongkat ali is supposed to work by keeping the body from getting rid of testosterone (as fast as normal.)

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Re: The Nectar of The Gods: Testosterone and Hormone Replacement Therapy

Post by Contrarian Expatriate » February 12th, 2019, 6:05 am

MrMan wrote:
February 12th, 2019, 2:52 am
I'm capable of sex every day.
As is the case with most men here; sex is not the issue although that area improves considerable also.
MrMan wrote: Are there any health problems if you are 50 or 60 and have the testosterone of a 20 year old?
Only if you think preventing dementia, osteoporosis, muscle atrophy, heart disease and high blood pressure are problems.
MrMan wrote: Does it increase the risk of cancer or some other disease?
Cancer, no but if you already have cancer, it is recommended to not start the treatments. Every medication has risks and that is why it is closely monitored by medical professionals.
MrMan wrote: Does it make your back harrier and your head balder if you use it? Shooting up with bull testosterone or whatever it is seems unnatural, and I wonder if there are some consequences.
Unnatural? That comes accross as a hater comment but such is to be expected from those who hate to see others thrive and be happy.

But to your question, it is no more unatural than your use of tongkat ali, or the people's use of any other medication. Testosterone is very natural and it is made from grape seeds. About the back hair and balding, that would depend on your doses and genetic makeup. Low theraputic doses like mine would not seem to have that effect. Higher doses CAN hasten the loss of hair to the point of your maternal grandfather's hair pattern. I would prefer to have my grandfather's receded hairline full of hair than to not be able to lift, run, bed bevies of cute girls and give them gushing orgasms several times a day. If it ever became an issue, I'd just shave my head bald which tends to make me look even younger anyway.
MrMan wrote: I've read that tongkat ali is supposed to work by keeping the body from getting rid of testosterone (as fast as normal.)
That's fine, but if you're over 35 and your levels are in the normal range, you are far below optimal levels of testosterone so you would also be missing out on increased energy levels, strength, fat loss, and high drive and motivation. Tongkat ali sounds appropriate for a man in his twenties, but a waste of time for men above 35.

If it is not for you, don't hate on the other men who are benefitting from it because it comes off as sour grapes. I personally am a big beneficiary of it and I have only been on it for 2 weeks! The biggest benefits tend to become apparant after 8 weeks or more.

Sylvester Stallone has been on TRT for decades so you might want to ask him about the consequenses you are so obsessed with focusing on. By the way, he is 72 years young.

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Re: The Nectar of The Gods: Testosterone and Hormone Replacement Therapy

Post by Craigmiller » February 15th, 2019, 5:28 am

Umm, yeah, this is pretty scientifically illiterate. If you follow it, you might be dead within a few years. All the concerns posted are indeed correct. Low testosterone is an indicator of lowered immune system function because the immune system will lower the testosterone levels to increase the immune system functionality. What is causing low testosterone is an overactive immune system reacting to bad-bacteria in intestines or some virus/parasites in your body. The body is using trying to fix itself and using all available energy. Once you get the disruption to the serotonin levels in the intestines, it messes with your brain’s serotonin levels too... because your brain is working overtime to produce a hard to produce molecule. If the foods stay in the intestines too long the immune system activity goes up way too much. Low serotonin levels = anxiety, depression, panic attacks, insomnia, obesity, fibromyalgia, eating disorders, chronic pain, migraines, etc. Negative thoughts, low self-esteem, obsessive thoughts and behaviors, Irritable Bowel Syndrome are also symptoms of low serotonin.

Doing Testosterone and Hormone Replacement Therapy is like pouring gas on a fire. Depending on your biome you'll deplete your energy resources and possibly develop cancer. See: https://bit.ly/2N80XVl For cancer to develop, your immune system must either be worn out, ineffective, unable to kill cancer cells as fast as they normally develop, or you must be exposed to a mass of cancer causing toxins, radiation or some such thing, that increase the rate of development of cancer cells to such an abnormally high level that your immune system can’t handle it.

The researchers are tracing down the bacteria but currently the only safe treatment for low testosterone is a gut bacteria re-balancing health protocol.

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Re: The Nectar of The Gods: Testosterone and Hormone Replacement Therapy

Post by Craigmiller » February 15th, 2019, 5:51 am

gsjackson wrote:
February 6th, 2019, 11:27 pm
Honestly, I think I look better and certainly younger than that guy, who is actually 11 years younger, but you can judge for yourself as I'm going to start throwing some Youtube videos out in a few weeks and post them here. He is doing a tad better than I with the gut. Fighting back the paunch -- which to some extent is hereditary judging by the older generations of men in my family, and perhaps also diastasis recti is a contributing factor -- is a constant challenge.

Other concerns I have with TRT: I'd have to get T levels tested by a disinterested party, since I don't trust any doctor who makes his living selling the therapy. That's becoming quite a nice little income stream for some of them, judging by a local guy who has an advertising budget that allows him to hit every radio station I listen to with ads all day every day.

Also, there's a lot of cancer in my family, including my sister, who developed endometrial cancer six months after starting hormone replacement therapy. And I apparently have a low tolerance for drugs, as four weeks of taking one hydrocodone pill a day after knee surgery put me in the hospital for three days with acute pancreatitis. My system just doesn't seem to tolerate the outside agents well.

Vitamin D from the sun is supposed to increase T, and I have an unlimited supply of that here in Arizona, which I regularly take advantage of. Don't know if it has the same effects on black skin, but for me with white skin that tans easily it is clearly beneficial.

There's an online forum I go to called transformetrics living strength, and the guy who runs it, John Peterson, is as fit and buff as anybody of any age at 66. He's been threatening for years to come out with a dietary regimen and exercise system based on isometrics that he says will boost T levels dramatically without replacement therapy. I'm curious enough to check it out.

So you're right -- I should get T level tested, but would try everything under the sun (no pun intended) before even considering injections. Glad it's working for you, and I hope you'll continue to post your results.
If you're fighting a paunch after a gut bacteria re-balancing health protocol -- you might need a fecal transplant due to not having the right gut flora.

https://www.verywellhealth.com/fecal-tr ... on-3156924

One of the reasons Winston felt better after drinking Hydrogen peroxide IS he likely killed all the bad bacteria in his gut.

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