Re-visited GF in Philippines to get engaged....she got mad and wanted to break up....now crying to take her back..??

[CannedHam]

TLDR bro!

[Zambales]

So you have "J", "L" , your mother and Grace's sister immersed in your relationship. No wonder it's a clusterfuck with four other women involved.

Move on and don't involve your mother in future when relationships are concerned or advertise your personal life on Facebook for all to see.

Also, when a Filipina prioritizes their family before you, it's a clear red flag.

Did you mention Grace's family were wealthy prior to this thread, I can't remember.

Yeah one time a Filipina business woman told me this: "If your Filipina girl really loves you, then she will even protect you from her own family if they try to take advantage of you. If she does that, then you know she truly loves you."

I don't get how these people have no pride or honor or conscience or guilt or shame. Only sociopaths lack those traits. Yet these girls are too warm to be sociopaths. So I don't get it.

The impression I got with a couple of Filipina's I've dated is that they seem to think us westerners have very few standards and we're just content with a good looking woman. I wouldn't call them sociopaths though but I do think they can be absorbed in their own objectives and that's mainly due to being from a poor background.

[Zambales]

Man OP, your stories are so long. There's nothing wrong with a girl riding a bus by herself. No danger at all. You were being overly nice and protective beyond what's necessary.

Well her family was nice to pick you up at the airport. Most families there can't do that and don't even have a car.

I still don't get why you had to have her sister with you. That was unnecessary and illogical.

Why doesn't your mom want you to marry Grace? You give your mom an ultimatum in that if she doesn't find you a good Korean girl to marry by a certain deadline, then you can marry Grace. lol

So if Grace didn't dump you and hand you back the ring, your mom would have interfered or not?

Btw are you sure this family is middle class, like you told me in a PM?

He didn't plan it well enough. Should have told Grace to take the bus to Manila meeting her off it when it arrives. They could have spent time together alone and visited the MOA and other attractions over a few days before heading up north if they so wished. No sense traveling up and down Luzon like a yo-yo especially with the overbearing older sister in tow.

[Zambales]

Also, never ever put up with that silent/ignore treatment

Easier said than done. Like I said previously, tampo's are part and parcel of a Filipina's DNA although some women are worse than others. I've tried different methods to reduce the risk and the one I found to be most effective was to look for the very early signs of a tampo and then talk to her normally about anything really, so long as it takes her mind off to why she was annoyed in the first place.

[publicduende]

To be fair, I don't think any of the participants involved in this love triangle, family included, have been particularly smart, and yes I do agree, impoliteness is uncalled for but as we know, Filipina's are notorious for tampo's. I've suffered at the hands of one or two for a much lesser "crime" .

Filipinas are notorious for tampos but, once again, if said girl had been interested in pursuing our OP, she would have doubled up her effort not to feel annoyed, bitchy, or sad. I don't know what's special about her but, from the sound of it, and without wanting to offend Horahngee, she is the one-dime-a-dozen girl from the province. Give his status and conditions, I think our man could easily find a better girl and by better I mean:

- smarter and better educated
- better behaved
- from a less destitute family
- living closer to a city (e.g. Manila, Cebu, Davao) so OP won't have to put up with multi-hour trips (I had a small share of those and - boy - they're horrible).

No offense to this particular girl but, over my time here, I have grown cynical about what a foreigner can or cannot do here. Most of the "masa" girls, indeed most people here, show affection, cordiality and other good vibes out of a clear agenda. Indeed, when I find it hard to catch someone's attention because he/she doesn't care about ceremony and wants to see the facts, that's when I know they are a good guy worth my time and effort.

[Zambales]

To be fair, I don't think any of the participants involved in this love triangle, family included, have been particularly smart, and yes I do agree, impoliteness is uncalled for but as we know, Filipina's are notorious for tampo's. I've suffered at the hands of one or two for a much lesser "crime" .

Filipinas are notorious for tampos but, once again, if said girl had been interested in pursuing our OP, she would have doubled up her effort not to feel annoyed, bitchy, or sad. I don't know what's special about her but, from the sound of it, and without wanting to offend Horahngee, she is the one-dime-a-dozen girl from the province. Give his status and conditions, I think our man could easily find a better girl and by better I mean:

- smarter and better educated
- better behaved
- from a less destitute family
- living closer to a city (e.g. Manila, Cebu, Davao) so OP won't have to put up with multi-hour trips (I had a small share of those and - boy - they're horrible).

No offense to this particular girl but, over my time here, I have grown cynical about what a foreigner can or cannot do here. Most of the "masa" girls, indeed most people here, show affection, cordiality and other good vibes out of a clear agenda. Indeed, when I find it hard to catch someone's attention because he/she doesn't care about ceremony and wants to see the facts, that's when I know they are a good guy worth my time and effort.

As they say, there's plenty more fish in the sea and yeah the OP doesn't have to settle for her especially with what's gone on previously. The main problem with Grace is that she's too immature and is heavily influenced by her older sister.

What I don't understand is why did the family travel all the way to Manila from Ilocos Sur to pick him up and then be rude to him for the entirety of his trip?

[Winston]

What does Tampos mean exactly? Can you guys define it?

Btw, I had an even worse experience when I first came to the Philippines in 2006. Check this out. It will make your blood boil. lol

viewtopic.php?t=15089

[Zambales]

Silent treatment Winston. I've heard of them lasting for weeks but I've never experienced this myself. Fortunately.

[Horahngee]

So you have "J", "L" , your mother and Grace's sister immersed in your relationship. No wonder it's a clusterfuck with four other women involved.

Move on and don't involve your mother in future when relationships are concerned or advertise your personal life on Facebook for all to see.

Also, when a Filipina prioritizes their family before you, it's a clear red flag.

"J" (ex-Filipina I used to send text messages to and introduced by former co-woker...and yes...I guess she was considered a girlfriend) and "L" (filipina co-worker at hospital I used to work at) are goners couple months ago. However, i blame myself for communicating with "J" while I was also communicating with Grace, and also chatting with "J" while I was visiting Grace in the Philippines back in January.

I did not advertise my personal life on facebook. I just had a FB account myself. It was Grace's older sister who posted photos of me and Grace in the Philippines that she took on her own smart phone, onto her own facebook account, where "J" eventually found those photos out on my facebook account, showed up on her timeline somehow, and that is what caused a lot of problems after my visit to see Grace in January.

However, Grace forgave me for that and we moved on.

My mom still insisted that i marry a Korean girl because she was afraid that "J" and "L" would cause more problems between me and Grace in the future, and especially after we get married. So my mom and I went to Korea at end of February. Met one girl whom my mom's friend's cousin introduced me to..... who is only 7 months younger than Grace. However, I was cunning and sent text message via kakao talk (the chat app they use in Korea) to the Korean girl if she really wanted to come to the US because she would be far from her family, her friends, etc. The Korean girl eventually stated she had no interest in me (like many of the Korean flake girls I have encountered or been matched with in my life) and did not want to come to the US. My mom was infuriated with the Korean girl for coping out on me, because my mom really wanted me to marry the Korean girl from her own hometown

Prior to traveling to Korea with mom, I told Grace and even called her up on Messenger phone that sorry, but we are going to have to completely break up. she was so sad, and so was I. We literally talked and cried on the phone for around 1 hour.
That "break up" is what pissed off Grace's older sister.

Why? Grace's older sister Jonnalyn was married to a Filipino Muslim, who ended up marrying another women. I guess Muslims in the Philippines can practice polygamy!? WTF?
So that is why the break up in March between me and Grace pisses off Grace's older sister Jonnalyn, and why she does not really like me.


I guess in the Philippines, a break up in a relationship seems to be considered a very big issue! Unlike here in the US where if you break up, you can break up by calling your mate, or my text message, and that is it. No cries, no whining, no sorrow.


So after the time when the Korean girl flaked out and told me that she was not interested in me.....that was the GOOD time when my mom threw in the towel and said, "Okay, you can be with Grace and go back to the Philippines to see her."

That is how I had to chance three weeks ago to see Grace again, and also to get engaged to her.

Did you mention Grace's family were wealthy prior to this thread, I can't remember.

Grace's family seems to be from a middle class family. They are not that poor. Grace's family had their house rebuilt in 2011. I know she's not BS-ing because I have stayed over at her family home. It is a 4-bedroom house, the interior is very nice with tile flooring, painted walls, and the bathrooms are waaaayyy BETTER looking than the shabby run down houses in her neighborhood. the only downside is they get their water from the well pump, and there is no water heater in the house. I am not kidding, I had to shower in cold water (but was refreshing with the super humid weather there!)

Her dad is a retired police officer.

Her mom is still working as an elementary school headmaster (AKA a principal), but hopes to retire in three years.

Grace graduated from nusing school in the Philippines. She did post-grad non-paid work at hospitals after graduating from nursing school. She eventually signed up with an agency and worked for around four years as a nurse in Saudi Arabia.

Right now, she's unemployed because she is back home in the Philippines, and she stated to me that it's hard to find a job in the Philippines unless you have connections to a politician. Is this true?

So basically, Grace is just staying home for the last two years,...... doing the laundry for the family, ironing clothes, sweeping the floor, wiping the cupboard, killing the chicken (yes, saw her do it during most-recent visit), to make Chicken Tinola soup.

[Horahngee]

I don't think either of you are mature enough to be in a serious relationship. She's allowing her older sister to dictate to her while you keep bringing your mother into it. For a relationship to be strong the pair of you need to be strong and that entails telling outsiders to back off and mind their own business.

Hmmm....why not?

I should not have done that.....call my mom up from the hotel.

But when Grace cried, did not want to talk to me (kept sitting there, staring at the wall with her arms crossed) and her bitchy older sister Jonnalyn yelled and screamed at me in the hotel room, and then Grace eventually left cash on the table because I was complaining of them not pitching in for taxi or bus fare....and the most glaring thing....hand back her engagement ring to me.....I thought that was her final decision and the end of our relationship.

I honestly was also afraid because I am a visitor from the US, thousands of miles away in the Philippines. Grace and her sister Jonnalyn were supposed to sort of be "chaperones" for me.

Although the hotel was in the Manila area and not too far from the airport, and luckily, my flight out of the Philippines the following morning,....I still felt some anxiety of being left alone in the hotel room by myself. That is why I called my mom. But in the conversation to my mom, I told her "f--k Grace, let's just move on, and hopefully find another girl." I also mentioned to my mom that Grace's older sister had Gout, and also had cysts that were found in both of her breasts during a mammogram that was done in March of this year. I also brought up the fact to my mom that Grace's mom has hypertension....same for her older brother who is only 31 years old. Saying those health problems of Grace's family to my mom in our phone conversation grossed my mom out, and even made her dislike Grace even more, because to my mom, she thinks that Grace's family has "dirty DNA" and that if we have kids in the future, our future kids may also have diseases and health problems that plague Grace's family. Although I think Filipino diet also contributes somewhat to a lot of the health problems in Filipinos living in the Philippines.

I know a lot of you guys here are white western guys. So you may say don't involve your parents or mom in a relationship. That is true....and I am contemplating of taking the risk of getting "disowned" by my mom for marrying Grace if I do pursue that path. However, my mom is Korean, and in Korean culture, parents have a lot of say in who they approve you of marrying.


I am pissed off because Grace had it all good with my mom. My mom and dad were going to fly out to the Philippines in October, since we were planning our wedding at a small hotel pavilion in mid-October, to attend our wedding.

But after Grace sulked, did not want to talk to me, kept staring at the wall, and walked out of the hotel room and handed me back the engagement ring, (and also her older sister arguing and yelling at me),.......those things really pissed my mom off. Once my mom is pissed off, she will not change her mind. And right now, she does not want me to marry or even continue texting Grace. Mom also tried to force me to delete all of my photos that I took with Grace, from my smart phone and digital camera. She's sometimes like a female version of Kim Jong-Un.

[Horahngee]

TLDR bro!

I know this story of what happened recently was really long. But I wanted to be as detailed as possible to give you guys the full scoop of what happened and how to proceed from here with Grace.

[Horahngee]

Very simple conclusion, Horahngee: that sort of girl (and her nasty sister) is best left alone. From your post I can understand that...

1. The whole engagement and family reunion/hospitality was one big set up from day one. The fact itself that they slapped you with the food and the gas they bought to keep you fed and entertained, which are probably a few hundred pesos worth at most, means all of them were looking for a free ride with the smallest possible "initial investment".

Nice interpretation publicduende. And oh my goodness! you sound almost exactly the same as what my mom have told me of Grace and family.

No, Grace's family did not slap any cost on me for the gas for the car ride from the airport, or the electricity use when I stayed at their house, or the food that they cooked for me while I stayed over at Grace's house. They paid for all of those things.

Right! Food and the gas used to drive me around probably cost only 5700 pesos at most. I am guessing. I know because I went shopping in the market place with Grace this time. I was surprised how CHEAP the vegetables cost in the Philippines, compared to the rip-off priced vegetables and fruits sold at grocery stores here in the US. So what Grace's family paid for, compared to the gifts that I brought and gave to Grace for her birthday, to her dad for his birthday and for also driving around, and to her mom (Swarovski Necklace gift), shortbread cookies from Hawaii, and Hawaiian macadamia nut chocolates......is very small.


So that is why I got upset when Grace and her older sister did not even make an effort to pitch in for their meals, dinner, taxi fare or bus fare. Plus the fact that Grace told me to buy her bags of dried mango's when we went to the grocery store really upset me because it sound like she was bossing me around, "using" me, to buy things.

Sadly this is very, very common in the Philippines. Many Filipino men and women are keen to give a foreigner something that costs them relatively little or nothing (like their time, if they have plenty of it, or their "sexual goods") and ask something much larger and necessary to them in return. Usually money but could be a favour or the ultimate prize of all - the chance to get themselves or one of their family members wedded up to you and over to a different country, from where she will be able to route a continuous stream of financial support.

That thing about financial support to her family is what one of my friend and his fiancé told me couple months ago when we met up for lunch. He told me be careful of marrying Filipina's....because you not only marry her, but marry into her entire family, and that I become a "source of income" for them. The same thing is what my sister has told me about marrying Filipina's. However, my sister has a positive opinion of Filipina's being good wives because my sister is in the US Air Force, knows an officer in her department who has been married to a Filipina, from the Philippines, for around six years, and takes good care of him.


Will Grace take good care of ME, after we get married, or will she not bring home the money, but rather, send all of her paycheck back to her family back home in the Philippines? Those thoughts are what sort of creeps me out right now about Grace, if I were to get married to her.

LOL!! So funny about the parents wanting Grace to marry me to get her out of the Philippines. I even sent a text message to Grace's mom just recently after the incident of Grace giving me back the engagement ring, asking her this question. I occasionally text the mom via Messenger. In one of my text messages, I asked her "So are you pushing Grace to marry me?"
Her mom answered "No way! Why do you ask this kind of question to me?! That was a complete INSULT to ask me that question!!!" Bwahahahahaha!!!

Not only is Grace not employed at this time.

But her older sister, the bitch, Jonnalyn is also unemployed too. Jonnalyn graduated from "Care giving/giver" school at the end of February. Still has not been able to find a job. Just stays home, cooks for family. Same shit that Grace does for morning and day-time house chores. But strange. Jonnalyn lives mainly in another house owned by one of their aunties who lives in the US (I have met that aunty...she lives in Hawaii). Older sister only stops by the main family home on certain occasions.

Nevertheless, both Grace and Jonnalyn are unemployed.

Grace's younger brother just got married to a Filipina, originally from the Philippines and hometown near Grace's area, but now living and working in Canada. So that Filipina is a Canadian resident.

Younger brother is now at home in the Philippines with Grace, just waiting for his Filipina wife to process the Canadian spouse immigration paperwork. When the paperwork are all done, younger brother is off to Canada....Quebec area, to be with his Filipina wife, and then to work as a med tech.

The only sibling of Grace who is employed in the Philippines right now is her older brother. I personally don't like the older brother because he doesn't even smile at me or try to make conversation with me. But it could be a cultural thing, because people in the Philippines tend to me more "cold" compared to the fake/friendly people here in the US. Anyhow... her older brother went to nursing school (different school from Grace) and graduated four years ago.....could not find a paid nursing job in their province. So Grace's dad, being a former police officer, helped older brother to secure a police officer job. So that is what older brother is doing right now for his employment/job.

2. I don't think Grace has been genuine about her love for you. Not a single time, from what you recount. Her family was probably pushing her towards you so she could get married and give herself (and them!) a better existence. The question is: what has she giving back to you? From what you write on the OP, she sounds uneducated and with little in the way of showing manners and grace. She and her sister started accompanied you into your journey with a massive chip on their shoulder. Perhaps they were upset about you trying to hook up with another girl and they gave you the benefit of the doubt because they were will interested in Grace being married up for "the greater good".

Holy cows! Mom (publicduende) is this you? Very similar stuff you are pointing out to me.....hate to say this....but what my mumsy pointed out to me.

Yeah, Grace has given me nothing back. She only gave me cheap refrigerator magnet for a gift the last time I visited her in January. This time around, she only bought a small cup for my mom as a gift. No gifts for me. Not even when we went to Manila Ocean Park aquarium gift shop. She and her sister, only looked for shirts and other souvenirs for family and relatives.

Grace is educated, however. She has attended and graduated from nursing school in the Philippines. She worked as a nurse in post-partum care in Saudia Arabia for around four years. So it's not like she has not worked before.

I don't know what brought her back to the Philippines. But she has been living in the Philippines, at home, for the last two years. She told me she's not working right now, actually since she has moved back to the Philippines, because it's hard/very difficult to find a job in her province area,.....unless you have family ties to a politician. I don't know if this is true or not.


What's weird is,...I asked her "So since you can't find a job here in xxxxxx, why don't you relocate to Manila and work at a hospital in the city?"

She told me that she dislikes Manila, people are unfriendly there, rent is expensive in Manila.....etc.

I don't know *shrugs shoulder*

The thing is...if a man flies all the way from the US to a remote country in SE Asia called the Philippines to find a girl who is as dumb, entitled and moody as the women back home, what is the point of all this?

LOOL!! You are sounding and talking exactly like my mom!! Hahaha. She also told me that since I am a US citizen and traveled from afar, that I should have been treated better and with more respect.

My mom also questions why the parents did not hold an engagement party or some kind of get-together event at the house. I ended up giving Grace her engagement ring at a restaurant, because older sister Jonnalyn was supposed to coordinate something so that I surprise Grace. Jonnalyn did not want to help (I didn't know she changed that much since I last saw her in January).
It was my fault though, because I did not communicated directly with the mom or dad (her dad does not have Messenger) about an upcoming engagement for my recent visit to see Grace.

However, I DID ask Grace's mom what Grace's ring size was. That should have been a clear indicator to her mom that my trip back in June, was mainly to get engaged to her daughter. Funny is Grace's mom kept telling me she did not know the size and told me that she will "secretly" take a look at Grace's ring collections in her room. It was as if the mom did not care about my engagement to her daughter.

The Philippines are actually home to a great many good girls, girls who are graceful, considerate and sweet. You probably made a mistake assuming that just because Grace was introduced to you by a trusted family member, she is herself trustworthy and worth starting a relationship with.

Really? I don't know. I am starting to have doubts about the Philippines having good, graceful and considerate/sweet girls.

I also have sent personal messages to Winston, asking him about his relationship with his Filipina wife (?) Diana. While Winston and Diana did not meet via a family member match-making like how I was introduced to Grace, his relationship to Diana still makes me question Grace, and how our future may look like.
What is worse is I will be marrying Grace, and planning on bringing her here to the US so that we can start a family.
I am sure that Grace will take good care of me. But at the same time, I have his weird feeling at the back of my head that her parents are pushing her to marry me so that she can leave the Philippines and work in the US, make money....large amount of money that could not be made with the same type of job in the Philippines, and then send money back home to her parents, and maybe, her icky sister Jonnalyn, since Jonnalyn can't secure a "care giver" job (which she can work via agency, and work in Hong Kong, Dubai.....but she's too damn lazy or scared to travel abroad).

I think you can safely tell Grace to get lost. Then (then!), if you are still interested in looking for a good Filipina, the best option for you would be to be here for a few weeks, not just a few days, and start dating here. You don't even need to use Tinder or the dating sites. At least in the large cities like Manila and Cebu, there are several expat associations that organise social gatherings.

Dang! I would LOVE to go back to Manila. I like the city. It's like a combination of Los Angeles, Seoul, NYC, but more grungy and run-down looking in certain parts of Manila.

The problem is staying there for couple of weeks. I don't have that kind of time to have that kind of vacation.

If I were to move to the Philippines, I don't know what kind of work I can do over there, besides ESL instructor. No ways. My job here in the US pays much better than what folks in the Philippines make.

One of them I recently discovered is Internations (https://www.internations.org) which sports a good mix of foreign and Filipinos, most being single women in their late 20s to late 30s, mostly single. These are usually Filipinas with jobs, with financial and social independence, well-educated and capable to understanding the subtleties of a joke and being honest about their feelings.

Makes me sad that I cannot participate in those gatherings. The Filipina's that you describe sound like the kind of wife that I would want in the future. Definitely.

The downside to Grace is that she is currently not employed and only staying at home doing house chores/errands.

But cool Publicduende....thanks for letting me know about Internations' website.

[Horahngee]

He didn't plan it well enough. Should have told Grace to take the bus to Manila meeting her off it when it arrives. They could have spent time together alone and visited the MOA and other attractions over a few days before heading up north if they so wished. No sense traveling up and down Luzon like a yo-yo especially with the overbearing older sister in tow.

Whoa whoa whoa! Hold on.

I spent the first six days in the Philippines at Grace's house and in her hometown/province area.

It was the last three days, two nights, that I wanted to tour Manila to check out the MOA, the aquarium and some of the smaller museums.

Grace's dad drove her and me to the house that her older sister, Jonnalyn, was staying at.

And guys, I thought Jonnalyn, the older sister, was a nice person, because she was really kind to me back in January when I last saw Grace and the family (actually the first time I have met the family and Grace).
The older sister would chat with me, ask questions, and I was like "wow...I want her to come and live with Grace if she does come to the US."

But shit totally hit the fan when Grace found out about me communicating with "J" which she was not aware of....after her older sister posted photos of me and Grace, on her own Facebook page....which somehow....made its way to my Facebook page.

In March, I also called up Grace to tell her sorry, but my mom wants us to break up and part ways because my mom wanted me to marry a Korean girl (but I did not reveal that info to Grace)....and then the following day, I called up Grace and told her sorry, but I want to still be in a relationship with her (to her, it was like I was giving her the run-around)..... All of those events are what changed her older sister, Jonnalyn's opinion of me.

In addition, older sister was diagnosed with Gout in February due to constant arm joint pain. Older sister also had cysts ....cancerous or not..I don't know....found in one of her breasts upon a routine mammogram in April (and for Pete's sake....she's only 34 years old!).

Older sister was also a victim of a Filipino Muslim husband whom she married back in 2015, but the ex-husband ended up marrying other women, because in the Philippines, I guess it's legal for Muslim Filipino's to marry multiple women. Is this true?
So that is what made the older sister hate men, and also hate me for breaking up with Grace, back in March, but also for communicating with "J"... the other Filipina.

All in all, all these events made the older sister Jonnalyn, a more bitter and totally different person.



Why did I ask older sister to come along?

It is because I did not want Grace to travel alone on the shuttle bus back to Illocos province, after the day I was to depart from the Philippines to travel back to the US. I wanted somebody to accomodate her. However, from this second most-recent visit to the Philippines, I do think that Grace was independent enough to travel by herself.

Oh well, things happen for a reason.


I still send text messages to Grace. she is hoping that we can still continue our relationship.

I told her flat out that i am still upset with her older sister, Jonnalyn, for yelling at me in the hotel room, and for both of them to abondon/walk out of the hotel room, and leave me there by myself.

[DarthXedonias]

Honestly, Horahngee, I think you just need to end it. That is just my opinion though I have reasons:

(1) If you even think about going back to that relationship your basically signaling to the family, "Hey, you can treat me like garbage and with disrespect and I will still come back". You already didn't have their respect before, do you think their respect is going to come back if do that? More than anything they are probably going to treat you with even more disrespect because they know they do so with impunity now. Also, do you really want a woman who is going to treat you like she did at times who is influenced by a family like that? Just my honest opinion, but you would be crazy to accept something like that. What would happen if you guys were going through a rough time in the states and she finds out that she doesn't really need you to survive. She realizes that she can just divorce you, take half your stuff and get alimony. What do you think her older sister, who you admit has started to hate man, would suggest to her? She has shown that her older sister has influence over her which right off the bat should tell you to stay away since she doesn't respect or like you anymore.

(2) I will say this the best way I can, even if you plan on marrying a foreign woman you need to get rid of the "Nice guy" traits I'm sensing in you. I'm not telling you to start treating women like shit like top guys in America do but you clearly need to setup more boundaries and actually enforce them. I keep on sensing this whenever you mention something bad that happened but then automatically you would mention that her or her family did something good for you or were under bad circumstances, almost excusing their behavior because they previously did something good for you or were going through a bad time. You need to stop that. People deciding to act badly towards others is a "choice" and just because they did some good thing in the past doesn't excuse it neither does them being in some bad situation. There are millions of people who are in bad situations yet they don't use that as an excuse to treat others badly do they? Granted I will give you credit that after the whole buying stuff for her and then "choosing" to buy stuff for her sister you did finally reach your wit's end and decide to do something about it. Though I will say this was way too late in my opinion and not to mention that you should have been taking care of this stuff as it came up. You shouldn't have tolerated it every time it happened until it finally came out in the forum of you getting in a yelling match with her sister. Also, you didn't handle that "Tampo" Where she was just staring at the wall ignoring you and what did you do? You started talking about how good a person she is and complimenting her while she is giving you attitude? Do you know how bad that sounds.

Also, this goes along with the making excuses, so what if her sister has this bad health problem or this problem? It doesn't excuse the fact that she was acting bitchy and just plain bad towards you. So, I can tell you from my past from when I had PTSD that I never used it as an excuse to treat people like shit. To give you an idea over half of people who have PTSD commit suicide (Just to give you an idea of how bad the circumstance is) and yet even with that I didn't say, "Hey, I should treat people like shit because I'm in a shitty situation or in shitty health". I've known people with even worst problems than her and they still didn't use it as an excuse to treat people around them like shit. You know why, because that's what good people with actual character do. So I don't know why at times you keep on bringing up her health situation and her marriage to that guy over and over as if that is some excuse for her behavior? Another thing ,and I think publicduende might agree with this, this family might have educational degrees but they certainly don't act educated or middle class at all.

In the end I hope I didn't say anything that seemed to be mean, which wasn't the spirit in which I was writing it, but I really do want to make you understand this isn't worth it. I also see you making a lot of mistakes I saw myself doing when I was younger and I'm trying to hopefully help you avoid some of that stuff. If I had to say one more thing it would be get rid of this scarcity mindset and fear of having to start from zero again. There are millions of filipinas in the Philippines that are probably better looking and would actually treat you better and with more respect then this girl is treating you with. Its not hard like in the United states so this fear of starting again from ground Zero shouldn't be even paid attention to. Don't sell yourself short by settling for a woman who is going to treat you like this (or her family is going to treat you like this). If you feel like if you keep on talking to her your feelings might overpower your reason and you might try to give the relationship another try (with all the amount of tries it already has had) I would just say my goodbyes and break off all contact. That's just me though, in the end you have to make the decision but with the cluster f**k this has turned into I really do think your selling yourself short if you decide to keep pursuing this woman when there's a lot better and classy women out there.

Heck, if you have problems letting going then since you guys aren't officially together anyway just start talking to someone else from the Philippines and if its someone who actually is a lot better you might actually come to your senses and realize what a bad deal you were about to take before with the previous girl. Either that or break it off and take some time off because its obvious from this story that even though somethings were her family and her fault, you made your fair share of mistakes as well, along with having your mother involved. You obviously need to learn to conduct yourself better. The first time was your mistake because you decided to start talking with 2 other girls while giving Grace the impression she was the only one (really bad move on our part), then you had your mother involved which honestly at this point the lesson I would take from this is stop updating your mother on your personal relationships all the time. Take if from someone who has a mother that is similar, don't tell her anything. My mother doesn't know anything about the girl I have been talking to and I will keep it like that until "maybe" I might propose to this woman. I do that because I know she will start being nosy and try to be controlling, granted I've already told her off about that type of stuff so she has backed off somewhat cause she knows I won't tolerate that shit anymore. Granted your mistake with the 2 girls is what got your mother involved even more to the point of demanding you end it. The third times was her mistake mostly, but I will be frank it was partly your fault for even considering going back after all that previous shit happened and thought everything was going to be fine. I find it preposterous that you would even consider now going back for a fourth time? really? Its not going to be any better that's all I will say.

[zboy1]

I'm Korean and I say, screw what your parents say. I was in a similar situation where my parents objected to my future goals and desires. They went nuts when I told them I was going to move out of the U.S.

Now, they're completely on my side. lol. I also met a wonderful Chinese girl, whom I'll introduce to my parents this year or next.