My sexless relationship with Filipina. What to do?

[Winston]

MarcosZeitola,
You are making a big logic fallacy in assuming that I'm like you. I'm not. Your whole post was based on that false assumption. The truth is, I simply don't care about raising kids. I mean I do a little, but it's not a big priority to me. And no, it's not something I'll regret. In my old age, I will regret not loving enough women or not loving better women or not going to better countries where I might have gotten better romance and love, etc. That's what I regret now in fact. So no, I'm not like you. My regrets are different than yours too. In old age, we will all regret many things, not just being a father. That's how life is. Even now, I can think of hundreds of things I regret. So your warning doesn't make any sense.

And yes, I am like a Buddha, in that I'm trying to wake up and enlighten people to get out of the US matrix. Duh. Didn't you know that? Have you been to the US? Go to any US city or suburb and you will see depressed men everywhere with hopeless faces, like they have nothing to live for. Don't you want to help those men? That's my calling. So yes, I am similar to Buddha in that I'm trying to wake people up, not just to life outside the US Matrix, but to exposing materialism and liberalism and bullshit lies as well.

Karmic retribution does not always happen. America has been doing bad things to Indians since the 1600's. So it wronged them for 300 years. That's a long time. Yet in spite of 300 years of wrongdoings toward the Indians and others, America went on to become the richest and most powerful nation in the world by the end of the 19th Century and now is the leader of the world in power, technology and influence. So no, sorry, no karmic retribution there. Your theory of "delayed karmic retribution" is just a copout. Sorry but the universe isn't fair or just. Your morality may be just an illusion for the masses.

I'm just trying to make you think outside the box because you are thinking in absolutes.

My son may want me around, but he doesn't obey my commands and he won't allow me to take him to school. So much for respect. He watches trashy TV shows and has no taste either.

You also seem to be under the fallacy that a son's life is ALWAYS more important and worth more than his father's. That makes no sense. Look at the greatest men in history. In every case, their children did NOT go on to do the same great things or even unique things, that their fathers did. You can say this about any great man in history, such as Benjamin Franklin for example. Or Albert Einstein, Thomas Edison, Leonardo Da Vinci, Nikola Tesla, Buddha, etc. Most of them had sons who became ordinary men.

So no, it is not true that the son's life is always worth more than the father's. Think about it. You seem to believe everything society tells you.

[smallcheese]

Well I wrote that letter to Dianne. I didn't write it with the forum audience in mind. Dianne knows what I mean. I assumed you would too, with the part where I mention that "there's no attraction or passion between us". Plus I've talked about this on the forum before, for the last few years, so I assumed you all knew what I was talking about.

If I was the only person who made the wrong assumption, you would be correct. But I wasn't the only one. Everyone else replying in the forum thought the same thing.

I did mention it before. I've been mentioning it since 2011. Remember? Where have you been? You must have missed it. Where on the forum did I say I was going to China to be a playboy? lol

You've been talking about it since 2011 but it's 4 years later and now you're finally in China? As the site owner, you would remember more about your forum and what you said in the last 4 years than I would. All I remember is that you planned on going to China to meet women and other people kept asking you when and you never gave a specific time. Like I said, I didn't know you were looking for a wife in China.

I was going to go to Zhuhai too. A chat mate of mine is there. How do you know there's still P4P there? Zboy1 told me that they cracked down on P4P in DongGuan. But yeah, I need to get sex out of my system. I'm addicted to sex so I suffer a lot if I don't get it.

There is P4P in Zhuhai if you know where to look. But coming from Hong Kong, I have to go thru Macau anyway so why bother? Just go to one of the massage parlors in Macau, e.g. 18, Senado, Emperor's, Darlings and you will DEFINITELY get sex out of your system.

After that, I did a lot of cold approaching and got some numbers. But those girls are only friendly with me via talking on WeChat. They don't offer to meet up or anything, even though one of them is unemployed. They seem reluctant to go out for some reason. I don't know why.

As for what I tell them during the courtship stage, well I don't say anything bad to incriminate myself. I say all the right things that I should say, such as "I am willing to settle for the right person" etc. I do not talk about my work unless they ask. I just say I'm a writer and that's usually enough. Sometimes I mention an online business or that I make money from online advertising, but they don't ask any more details after that.

But look, I don't think it works as technical as you make it out to be. You do not get rejected for saying the wrong thing, nor do you get accepted for saying the right thing. It's not that formulaic.

Look at my friend Rock for example. I hear him telling Chinese women lots of things that incriminate us and makes us look bad. He talks to them the same way he talks on the forum, just as bluntly. He is not as tactful as I am in that regard. Yet women still like him and want to date him. On the other hand, I say the right things and am tactful and make sure I don't say anything to incriminate me. Yet I still get rejected a lot.

So you see, what you say doesn't make or break a dating relationship. Women are not that formulaic. It's not like a job interview. You know, you can say all the right things to the wrong person, and it still will not work out. Likewise, you can say all the wrong things to the right person, and she will forgive you and still want to be with you. If you have some real experience in relationships, you would know that. Don't you?

Like I said, men and women both lie. Looks do matter when you're making a first impression on someone. If women are only chatting with you after you got their number, then I have to assume that when they first saw you and assessed you, they made up their minds that they wouldn't want to date you. As many others on the forum have advised, you need to work on your appearance. But you already know this.

If I remember correctly Rock is not Asian? If yes, then he can probably get away with saying things that a Chinese guy like you couldn't get away with saying. Especially with Asian women.

You're right that what you say doesn't make or break a dating relationship. There are many intangibles that can't be quantified that go into whether or not a woman likes you or not.

I don't know if I have any real experience in relationships. I was married before for 15+ years with a westernized Chinese woman and after carefully going through many relationships since I divorced her, I am happily married again to a teacher (and ex-model) 25+ years younger than me. So I guess maybe I have a little bit of real experience with women.

[smallcheese]

I would not maliciously attack your character, Winston, but I do believe that what you are doing is immoral and that your son deserves better then this. So on this matter, my opinion on you has become lowered. I understand you have your needs and that your dreams and goals matter too, but I am suggesting you think over things a little deeper and try to still find a workable compromise. I know you disagree with me on this, but I do believe that when you father a child you are supposed to be a father to that child as well.

Ultimately whatever you do is up to you. But think of the impact your actions have on the lives of others, and how it will affect your own life.

+1

I totally agree with what you said Marcos. Your replies were well written, passionate and thoughtful.

However, I don't think you'll change Winston. It's like talking to a brick wall. You're just going to keep banging your head over and over and over again.

For better or for worse, Winston is who he is. And the choices he makes in life are his own. Even though his choices may negatively impact the lives of others, I don't think he cares about that unless it negatively impacts him first. If you've read all of his writings on this forum over the years, you already know what kind of a person Winston is.

I'm not smart enough to tell anyone how to live their life, nor would I ever try to impose my morals on someone else. I don't have the right to do that.

You and others have tried to advise and guide him as best you could but in the end, Winston has to decide what he wants to do with his life. He has to decide what he can and cannot live with.

If anything, you should be thankful that you don't have to make the difficult choices that Winston faces today and in the future. You have already made choices for you and your family that leave you feeling blessed, happy, fulfilled and hopeful for the future. And that's all anyone could ever hope for, don't you think?

[MarcosZeitola]

My son may want me around, but he doesn't obey my commands and he won't allow me to take him to school. So much for respect. He watches trashy TV shows and has no taste either.

For Christ sake, man, he's a 7 year old boy...

I tried. Good luck with your life. I just hope if you ever marry a Chinese chick and knock her up you won't play favoritism with the new kid because that'd be low. And that you continue to at least financially support Angelo even if you are not physically there. That's more then some fathers do.

+1

I totally agree with what you said Marcos. Your replies were well written, passionate and thoughtful.

However, I don't think you'll change Winston. It's like talking to a brick wall. You're just going to keep banging your head over and over and over again.

Thank you. I tried. You tried. Others tried. We all tried and he just doesn't seem to care. As someone who knows the pain of losing a father, I really feel bad for his little boy. Life is unfair sometimes, but a lot of the unfairness is due to people's own bad choices. To see someone make the conscious decision to be an absent father while pursuing other women far away just to see his own selfish needs met, to me is appalling. I respect Winston a lot for spreading his message and for creating these forums, but for some of the choices he's made in his personal life I cannot have any respect.

He pretends like I am somehow the brainwashed one here for having a sense of decency, whereas what he is doing (forsaking family and parental responsibilities for selfish personal reasons) is exactly what so many people nowadays do in the West he claims to despise so much. Absent fathers, mothers, married to their work, prioritizing money over quality time with their families, and the broken homes and messed up children it results in. He's seen the result of this in America so many times I'm sure, the rampant materialism, the shallowness of people, the "me, me, me!" mentality. Otherwise he would not have created a forum meant to help men find good, traditional women abroad. But if it's good, traditional women you want, you ought to live life as a good traditional man so you are worthy of them.

[Cornfed]

While as I have said, traditionally men were not responsible for bastards resulting from them impregnating whores, I can't help but think that Winston sounds a bit like your typical Western woman. It is surprising they don't like him more than they do, since they have so much in common. Both he and they don't seem to have been introduced to the concept of "responsibility". You know, the one where you do something even when it doesn't fit in with your idle, mindless whims because it is the right thing to do by other people. No really, Winston and AW - this does actually happen.

[smallcheese]

My son may want me around, but he doesn't obey my commands and he won't allow me to take him to school. So much for respect. He watches trashy TV shows and has no taste either.

For Christ sake, man, he's a 7 year old boy...

A 40+ year old father dissing his 7 year old son. Classy, Winston, real classy.

Why do you expect your son to respect you when you're almost never around? Angelo doesn't know you from a hole in the wall. Obviously he disdains you as much as you dislike him.

It makes me wonder though how Winston gets along with his father. Do you have a good, loving relationship with your father, Winston? Do you respect the choices and sacrifices he made for you and your family while you were growing up? Does your father read this forum and know about your views on his grandson? What does he think of the choices you're making now in life?

Obviously Winston doesn't care if Angelo grows up to hate his guts. He probably does already. The best thing Winston could do is provide financial support for his son until he's finished college but I suspect that this will be the very bare minimum. If he gives any money at all.

To marry a woman in China, most women will demand a dowry, e.g. a house/apartment and/or car. Winston will need to save up his money to get married to a Chinese woman so that he can live happily ever after. Or so he thinks. Take it from someone who's been burned before by Chinese women, you shouldn't count your chickens before they hatch.

[Johnny1975]

Winston, guess what. I'm 39 and I haven't had sex in 9 years. I've only had 1 girlfriend and she had more red flags than China. And I live in the UK which is a shit hole with no culture, but I was born in a part of the world which is superior in every way to where I am now, and if I'd never come here I'm sure my life would have been different. There are things that I want in life but right now I can't have them. I have a lot to complain about, and I think I'm entitled to do so.

There are two ways that I could deal with that. I could dedicate my life to desperately trying to make up for what I've missed out on so far, obsessively fixating on trying to feel better, with no regard to anything else.

Or, I could try to be as balanced as possible. This means making sure I'm worthy of the things that I want, and making sure I don't become one of those one dimensional people with only one thing on their mind all the time, at the expense of other important things.

I've chosen the second option. I'm trying to make money from my writing, which right now I'm finding extremely hard because I'm on my own and I have no one to help me. But when I figure it out, I'm going to get the hell out of here and go to a nicer country with real culture and real women. Then, I'm going to date lots of women but I'm not going to become obsessed. I'm going to satisfy my sense of having missed out, but once that's out of my system i'm going to find 1 woman to stick with. I'm going to take my time and choose one that is compatible with me. If I feel like having some more on the side I'll do that, but I won't go crazy with it, and I'll be honest about it to my main girl.

What I mean is that I'm not going to let the fact that I've missed out rule my life. I'm going to try to make wise decisions.

Sometimes, when someone discovers a solution to their problem, like dating, they go crazy. It seems like all you want to do is be a playboy forever. You're letting all those years of missing out rule your life. It's like someone who is deprived of food suddenly finds food, and then all they want to do is eat forever. You've discovered the wonders of women in all these countries, you've had a taste of the good times, and now you're hooked. That's not balance. Maybe you're trying to prove something to yourself, maybe you're trying to erase something.

Obviously you're welcome to criticize my criticism, but first, ask yourself, do I have a point? Or am I talking complete nonsense?

"My son may want me around, but he doesn't obey my commands and he won't allow me to take him to school. So much for respect. He watches trashy TV shows and has no taste either."

I used to be a bit disrespectful to my dad when I was younger. Not because I wanted to, but because he wasn't there and it made me angry and I wanted to make a point in the only way I knew how. By the way when I say he wasn't there, he was there physically, but when he was, he may as well have not been. Imagine how your son must feel with you not being around much at all, and he probably senses that he's not a priority. If I was your son I would be seriously disrespecting you. Kids don't act weird or stupid for no reason. You get what you put in.

[davewe]

MarcosZeitola,
You are making a big logic fallacy in assuming that I'm like you.

MZ - You should get on your knees (do it now!), kiss the ground you walk on, and thank God or whatever you believe in, that this is true! You are not like Winston

[MarcosZeitola]

MZ - You should get on your knees (do it now!), kiss the ground you walk on, and thank God or whatever you believe in, that this is true! You are not like Winston

I did exactly that.

It's kind of a pity Winston has not replied to the messages on this page, there are a few very thoughtful messages by smallcheese, Johnny and even by Cornfed that I feel Winston should read and let sink in. It seems like he has already made up his mind and never came here to ask for honest advice... he just came here to get feedback and approval on a decision he had already made, and wanted to patted on the back for it. He knew he could not defend his actions, so he stopped replying and trying to defend them.

[Seeker]

People here are being WAY too nice to Winston about his decision to abandon his child, except for some measly financial support. Lots of men abandon their children but what stands out about Winston is his attempt to justify it as he's been trying to for the last few years. There doesn't seem to slightest amount of guilt at what he's done.

Marcos, smallcheese you gave some great advice, but Winston will continue to chase his base desires while failing miserably even at that.

[Winston]

MarcosZeitola,
Have you lost your marbles? You are dodging many of my questions. And you are not being realistic.

Why do you expect me to do something I don't want to do just because you or society says so? If my heart isn't in it, why should I force myself to do it?

Why should I go live in the Philippines again if I don't want to? Why should I stay with a girl I have no love or attraction for? WTF are you smoking?!

If I quit my China trip and go back now, Rock and Ethan_sg will ask me "WTF are you doing Winston?" and I'll tell them, "I'm going back to be with Dianne and Angelo because MarcosZeitola GUILT TRIPPED me into going back."

What will they think of that? Ask them. You can even ask Momopi, our practical Taiwanese advisor here, if that would be a good idea.

Furthermore, if I go back to Philippines and realize it was a mistake, then I will have to buy another ticket back to China and go through the hassle again. Then I will blame you for it.

Also you're not offering me anything Marcos. Me going back to be a father and living in the Philippines, brings nothing for me. I'm into Chinese women now. So that's my goal and objective. Why is that over your head? You seem so narrow and you don't LISTEN to anything I say! You're essentially asking me to FORCE myself to do something I don't want to do. Is that wise or even possible? THINK man!

One more thing. I'm getting old now and I need to get married ASAP. My China trip is three years later because God kept blocking me since 2012 which f***ing PISSES ME OFF like you won't believe! f**k man! Every day I look up and curse the heavens because of it! I'm not even living in 2015 in fact. I am still living in 2012 because my life and my time did not move on from there cause an invisible hand thwarted my plans. Do you know how pathetic that is?!

Anyhow, I already realized that I'm not suited or meant to marry a Filipina. Best to marry a Chinese. So I am in a rush to get married now. That's an important factor here. Did you ever consider that? NO YOU DIDN'T! You are totally INCONSIDERATE of everything I say and my needs. Doesn't that make you an a-hole MarcosZeitola???!!!

[davewe]

Your thread title: My sexless relationship with Filipino. What to do?

People post advice & actions to follow. You proceed to ignore them.

Winston, you're so stuck in your ways that you only see what you want to see. Good advice is filtered by your ego, and 4 pages in, have you actually done anything to improve your situation?

+1

I do agree that the thread has gone a bit off track, despite a lot of very good advise. If Winston chooses to not have a relationship with the mother of his child, that is his right. Even had they married we know that the divorce rate is such that many very good men end up as divorced wretches. If that is the case he should assist in financially supporting his child (which he says he is doing). Frankly this is not too difficult in the Philippines, a country where $200/month can completely change a woman's lifestyle.

But in addition to cash, he should certainly make some plan to see his son periodically and maintain some kind of relationship with him. Criticizing a 7 year old for bad taste is nuts; the kid's only bad taste was in choosing his parents

But Winston - the problem with this thread was in your original question. You didn't ask how to maintain a relationship with your son. You wrote a thread entitled "My sexless relationship..." posted a somewhat nasty letter you wrote Diane and asked for input. The pointedly critical input you got was based on that.

You aren't obligated to marry Diane, move back to the Philippines and pretend to be happy. But you do have to make better decisions regarding your son and take some kind of responsibility. Criticizing Diane because you don't find her attractive anymore is not the answer.

[Winston]

Your thread title: My sexless relationship with Filipino. What to do?

People post advice & actions to follow. You proceed to ignore them.

Winston, you're so stuck in your ways that you only see what you want to see. Good advice is filtered by your ego, and 4 pages in, have you actually done anything to improve your situation?

There is good advice and bad advice. Asking for suggestions does not mean that I am obligated to agree with all suggestions and not disagree with them. Your expectation is unreasonable and illogical.

Also, this thread is about my sexless relationship with Dianne, not about Angelo. So it has strayed off topic.

Also, please stop posting something and then deleting it with the words "delete" in the post. It makes the thread look weird and it makes you look mentally unstable.

[zboy1]

The most important thing to take away from this thread is...don't have a child with someone you're not married to--or love--otherwise, the child will grow up without a father. Please--all the men on the forum should take note! You see how effed-up the Black community is in the USA, due to African American children growing up with fathers; bad things happen to children who grow up without a strong father-figure in their life. Also, the women ends up screwed, because she's forever burdened as being 'used-up goods,' shall we say, which makes her life very difficult

At least have the common sense to use a condom before bedding a women.

[MarcosZeitola]

MarcosZeitola,
Have you lost your marbles?

No I have not. That is why I take full responsibility for the child I made and for the further children I am to make. If I, like you, was lacking in cojones, I would simply run away from the task, distance myself from the son I left behind and tell myself that just sending money is already enough.

You are dodging many of my questions. And you are not being realistic.

As you dodged many of mine. Such as the cardinal question: why do you want to get married when everything you have said on these forums points towards you not being marriage material? Starchild made a very convincing case for this, I believe on this very thread.

Why do you expect me to do something I don't want to do just because you or society says so? If my heart isn't in it, why should I force myself to do it?

Sometimes in life, the right thing is not always the thing that is most enjoyable. If you cannot step over your own shadow and make sacrifices for other people, people that you are responsible for, then you are a bad person, plain and simple. Not because of society, not because of, but because you have a son that needs you. Tell me, Winston, do you love Angelo or not? If you have a child with a Chinese woman, will you treat him the same as Angelo?

Why should I go live in the Philippines again if I don't want to? Why should I stay with a girl I have no love or attraction for? WTF are you smoking?!

You don't have to stay with Dianne. For all I care you get a house across the street, and you have Angelo live with you a few times a week, or in weekends. Or you visit every couple of days. That would be enough. You can see as many cheap whores as you want on the side to keep your hedonistic desires satisfied, and you can even convince your Chinese lady to come with you for all I care. I never said you had to live with Dianne. Just that you cannot just abandon your son and expect people here to still think you're a good person.

If I quit my China trip and go back now, Rock and Ethan_sg will ask me "WTF are you doing Winston?" and I'll tell them, "I'm going back to be with Dianne and Angelo because MarcosZeitola GUILT TRIPPED me into going back."

So what? You aren't going back because to take care of your only child because you are afraid your friends might not understand? What sort of spineless p***y behavior is that? If I am guilt tripping you, though, that means you at least are aware that what you are doing is immoral, and you are capable of feeling guilty over it. That means you aren't a sociopath, which is a good thing.

What will they think of that? Ask them. You can even ask Momopi, our practical Taiwanese advisor here, if that would be a good idea.

I am not asking anyone. I'm not even asking you anything. I am simply giving my opinion on what you are doing and why I think it is immoral, bad and selfish.

Furthermore, if I go back to Philippines and realize it was a mistake, then I will have to buy another ticket back to China and go through the hassle again. Then I will blame you for it.

So blame me. You made one mistake, and that mistake was to father a child with a woman you did not love and felt no genuine attraction towards. Now you are making another mistake, to abandon that child. A child with whom you will have a bad relationship, if you will even be in contact in the future. You neglect him, and it will cost you dearly. There's a little boy who needs you and he will continue to need you. He may be praying at night, and maybe he asks God to give him a father like the other boys. Or maybe he asks why his father doesn't love him? Why his father does not want him? Why his father wants to marry a Chinese woman and live far away, and raise another child and ignore him?

Also you're not offering me anything Marcos. Me going back to be a father and living in the Philippines, brings nothing for me. I'm into Chinese women now. So that's my goal and objective. Why is that over your head? You seem so narrow and you don't LISTEN to anything I say! You're essentially asking me to FORCE myself to do something I don't want to do. Is that wise or even possible? THINK man!

I am not asking you anything. All I did was make an observation, and I observed a few undeniable facts:

-you have decided you wanted a child with Dianne
-you and Dianne no longer felt attraction towards one another
-you decided you felt more attracted to Chinese women and want to marry one
-you thought sending some money over to Angelo and Dianne is good enough
-you decided to pursue romance in China and not live near your son, and not be a part of his upbringing

Did I not listen? Sure I did! I just disagree with your world view is all. And I think you are acting like a selfish Western woman choosing your own happiness over that of your only child. That's the same mentality American career women have. The "me, me, me!" attitude. So, YES! Maybe you SHOULD force yourself to not act like an American career woman, to not act like such a self-centered bastard and think of the needs of your son rather then your own. If you cannot do that, fine, but the least you can do is recognize you are at fault here and see the damage you are causing.

One more thing. I'm getting old now and I need to get married ASAP. My China trip is three years later because God kept blocking me since 2012 which f***ing PISSES ME OFF like you won't believe! f**k man! Every day I look up and curse the heavens because of it! I'm not even living in 2015 in fact. I am still living in 2012 because my life and my time did not move on from there cause an invisible hand thwarted my plans. Do you know how pathetic that is?!

Maybe that invisible hand of God thwarted your plans for a reason. Maybe He thwarted your plans because a little boy prayed to Him, "Please, God, give me a father like the kids in my class!" and God answered Angelo's prayer and not yours. Because He is a just God.

But sure... go be pissed off because you cannot live your own perfect fairytale romance novel life, never minding the wants and need of your son. Priorities, man, priorities. Make your own priorities, live your own life, but don't ask me to pat you on the back and tell you you're a good man when you're clearly not. You are getting old, you are set in your ways, and this marriage you claim to be after is never going to work.

Mark my words, this is a promise to you: you may get married but it will not last.

Anyhow, I already realized that I'm not suited or meant to marry a Filipina. Best to marry a Chinese. So I am in a rush to get married now. That's an important factor here. Did you ever consider that? NO YOU DIDN'T! You are totally INCONSIDERATE of everything I say and my needs. Doesn't that make you an a-hole MarcosZeitola???!!!

I am inconsiderate and an asshole because you choose to abandon your son and I call you out on it? Dude you're so full of it...