Should Winston get US citizenship for his son Angelo?

[zboy1]

Are you out of your mind, Pandabear? Common Care teaches kids that 2 + 2 = 5. You don't believe me?

2+2=What? Parents Rail Against Common Core Math

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local ... 63861.html

[Mr S]

Plus I can send my kid to the Manila Waldorf school surrounded by high-end Filipino families that actually have decent values and a brain. The school costs less than 5000 dollars a year vs. the American ones which range anywhere from 10,000-20,000 dollars a year depending on the location and state. I would never torture my kid by sending her to an American public school or typical private school, as they both have too many negatives nowadays.

Actually, the schools here are much improved.
1. The anti-bullying campaigns are having a very positive impact.
2. The new Common Core Standards have made schools more academically challenging.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Cor ... Initiative

Have you gone mental? All the anti-bullying is just more statism and teaching kids how to be wimps and submissive victims while Common Core is making kids mental and more stressed out than adults while they are learning less. I've read articles where academics can't figure out what the hell the lessons are about. It's a total crock of shit that is meant to destroy the education system rather than improve it. If America really wanted to improve their education system they would mimic successful education systems from other countries rather than every new president that gets elected, they throw out whatever was being taught previously and just come up with some new BS to appease dumbed down voters that can't see through the charade of creating more bureaucracy and control over children.

I would never put any kid of mine through public school in today's day and age if I was living in the states. I'd either find a decent private school, online internet schooling or home schooling. I hated public school in the 80's and early 90's and I assume it's probably 100x worse nowadays.

[Jester]

Plus I can send my kid to the Manila Waldorf school surrounded by high-end Filipino families that actually have decent values and a brain.

GREAT point. I had checked out Waldorf schools in Costa Rica etc before leaving the USSA, but had NO IDEA they exist in Asia.

Going to make this a thread.

[Winston]

Dianne told me that she wants me to get US citizenship for Angelo so that he can have more opportunities when he grows up to live abroad or travel abroad.

However, when I told her that I would only do that if she would sign a contract promising not to sue me for child support with the US government, she refused. Apparently, she wants to leave the door open to sue me for child support if she has to. That's a bad sign I think.

What should I do? Even if she signed such a contract, would it actually prevent her from being able to sue me for extra child support or abusing the system?

[Rock]

Dianne told me that she wants me to get US citizenship for Angelo so that he can have more opportunities when he grows up to live abroad or travel abroad.

However, when I told her that I would only do that if she would sign a contract promising not to sue me for child support with the US government, she refused. Apparently, she wants to leave the door open to sue me for child support if she has to. That's a bad sign I think.

What should I do? Even if she signed such a contract, would it actually prevent her from being able to sue me for extra child support or abusing the system?

As you know, Dianne visited me and some of my friends in Makati on the day of the Pacquiao Mayweather fight.

Be careful. She opened up a bit to us. But she sung a somewhat different tune than your post above. She said that she was fine signing that document agreeing not to sue. But that you just refused to get the DNA test needed for naturalization. You should at least get a low cost test to find out for sure whether or not you are the biological father, even if that test is not accepted by embassies.

I do doubt that that such a document would be of much use to you if she decided at some point to sue. I believe that in the eyes of the US law, child support is an obligation. Dianne signing some agreement with you does not absolve you of that responsibility. Once you are the proven father, she could easily sue for it if she was on USA soil or perhaps even if she was not. Actually, since your name is on Angelo's birth certificate, she still might have a case if she found the right lawyer. But I didn't tell her that.

Also, she said you are chronically late in sending school feels for Angelo and that you are not willing to use Western Union in China for some reason. (I used Western Union several times in Shenzhen and Dongguan to make international transfers in cash or bank accounts and it was relatively easy). So she is forced to sign promissory notes with the school to cover the shortfalls. If that's true Winston, it's a real shame.

Ideally, the decision on whether or not to get a USA and or Taiwan citizenship for Angelo can be delayed until he is an adult and can make his own call on it (assuming you want him to be raised and schooled in Philippines). But I don't know if that's possible or if waiting will make it more difficult to do. A competent immigration lawyer could provide you with a comprehensive list of options and possibilities.

Anyway, I did explain to Dianne that there are at least the following downsides to other citizenships for Angelo:

USA:

a. Getting logged into USA tax and reporting system which will require a lot of burdensome annual paperwork and possible extra tax expenses (assuming he lives outside of USA) for him once he reaches adulthood.

b. If he spends significant time in USA, the toxic social culture may influence him and damage his relationship with Dianne. This is particularly true if he lives there at a younger age.

Taiwan:

a. He may be required to serve in Taiwan military.

b. If he goes there at a younger age, he might get influenced by the culture which could distance him from Dianne. He might also be discriminated against and develop shame for his background since many Taiwanese still seem to look down on Filipinos. In contrast, his mixed blood may be a source of pride and privilege in the Philippines.

[Winston]

Rock,
She did not ask for a DNA test. She keeps assuming that the US embassy will require one but that's not true. I already checked. This has been explained 10,000 times.

I am sure I'm the father so it's no really necessary. But I may do a low cost one.

I already explained about the western union many times. Many frigging times. Their online site flags me if in not in the USA and declines my transactions. Especially in China and especially if I use a vpn. And Ko Kard takes a month now to send money which is awfully suspicious and I am threatening to report them to the FTC. So I have no control over the time schedule. See my thread about ko kard in the scam section.

Xoom.com closed my account long ago for sending money from overseas and refuses to explain why for security reasons. So I'm blocked from every angle.

Murphys law is to blame again. Remember that Murphys law is God and is much stronger than God. God is weak compared to Murphys law, which rules everything.

I also explained why i don't want to go to a western union office. I have to do a lot of legwork and research to find one. Then stand in line and fill out long paperwork. It's a days task that will leave me drained afterward. And I will have to go to the ATM machine and pay a 12 dollar fee to bank of America for withdrawing money. But online I can send within minutes.

This has been explained to Dianne 10,000 times yet she forgets and keeps asking again. Why is she so dumb and empty? Why does she erase her memory everyday? I do not like repeating the same thing 10,000 times. I get tired easily and have no tolerance for people that dumb and inefficient.

Why couldn't God set me up with a normal girl? Oh I forget. Because God has no power. All the power is with Murphys law which controls everything, at least in my love life and relationships.

I also hate being involved with a woman who is 100 percent dependent on me for every cent and cannot work or even try to. Always needy and can't do anything without me. That's ridiculous. I've never seen a woman completely helpless like that before.

Plus she's a prude and doesn't fulfill my desires and needs for sex and intimacy and passion. She is passionless and only cares about food and money and shopping. So I'm not exactly motivated.

She has problems that are unsolvable. She can't get a good paying job and refuses to work a low paying job. And she can't work overseas without paying thousands of dollars to greedy agencies and going through the most tedious and bureaucratic immigration process. It's a no win situation and cannot be solved by logic.

Plus she has a tendency to make dumb reckless decisions. So even if I spend a thousand dollars to set up a business for her in the Philippines, she could easily quit or ruin it. Filipinos are not business minded like chinese are.

I give up. It's out of my control. If anyone has any logical solutions, feel free to share. At this point she is randomly going around trying to get a job somewhere, even in manila where she hates. I asked rock to give her some advice since he is wise and practical, because I give up and do not deal with no win situations.

[MarcosZeitola]

Make up your mind already, Winston. You have your girl in Dongguan now, don't you? Dianne and you are clearly not compatible, so let her go. Let Steve have her, he has expressed clear interest in her and seems to be a good guy. She is young, too young to be throwing her life away waiting for you. Because you'll never love her or be with her any way, not in the long run.

You have to make up your mind. Is Dianne your girlfriend, yes or no? If she is, continue this status quo taking you nowhere. If she is not, tell her. Be upfront about it. That way she knows to expect nothing, and will be able to move on. You still have the obligation as a father to provide for your son, but maybe when she finds a new man with a stable income and a more stable lifestyle, the burden will lessen.

Stop trying to have your cake and eat it too.

[Winston]

Rock,
That's a great reason not to bring my son to Taiwan. I didn't think of the military service reason. I already gave chanta76 a list of reasons why I wouldn't bring my son to Taiwan in another thread:

I didn't bring my son to live in Taiwan because:

1) I cannot bring him there without bringing Dianne too. But I can't bring Dianne without marrying her. He will not go there without his mother. Marrying Dianne would mean marrying a prudish girl whom I have a sexless relationship with. No one here recommends that.
2) I have no fun or dating or social life in Taiwan, so I would not want to live there and would not be happy there long term. So I would have to leave him with my parents and give them the trouble and stress of taking care of him. Would you want to do that to your retired parents who are trying to live a peaceful life? Think about it.
3) The Taiwanese school system is strict and cold and conditions students to study crazily long hours under lots of stress. Filipino schools are more laid back. Taiwanese schools make you memorize tons of useless data, which is an unevolved system. Would you want to put your kids through that? Duh.
4) Trying to learn Chinese is too difficult. Would you want to make your kids do that?

[Rock]

Rock,
She did not ask for a DNA test. She keeps assuming that the US embassy will require one but that's not true. I already checked. This has been explained 10,000 times.

I am sure I'm the father so it's no really necessary. But I may do a low cost one.

I already explained about the western union many times. Many frigging times. Their online site flags me if in not in the USA and declines my transactions. Especially in China and especially if I use a vpn. And Ko Kard takes a month now to send money which is awfully suspicious and I am threatening to report them to the FTC. So I have no control over the time schedule. See my thread about ko kard in the scam section.

Xoom.com closed my account long ago for sending money from overseas and refuses to explain why for security reasons. So I'm blocked from every angle.

Murphys law is to blame again. Remember that Murphys law is God and is much stronger than God. God is weak compared to Murphys law, which rules everything.

I also explained why i don't want to go to a western union office. I have to do a lot of legwork and research to find one. Then stand in line and fill out long paperwork. It's a days task that will leave me drained afterward. And I will have to go to the ATM machine and pay a 12 dollar fee to bank of America for withdrawing money. But online I can send within minutes.

This has been explained to Dianne 10,000 times yet she forgets and keeps asking again. Why is she so dumb and empty? Why does she erase her memory everyday? I do not like repeating the same thing 10,000 times. I get tired easily and have no tolerance for people that dumb and inefficient.

Why couldn't God set me up with a normal girl? Oh I forget. Because God has no power. All the power is with Murphys law which controls everything, at least in my love life and relationships.

I also hate being involved with a woman who is 100 percent dependent on me for every cent and cannot work or even try to. Always needy and can't do anything without me. That's ridiculous. I've never seen a woman completely helpless like that before.

Plus she's a prude and doesn't fulfill my desires and needs for sex and intimacy and passion. She is passionless and only cares about food and money and shopping. So I'm not exactly motivated.

She has problems that are unsolvable. She can't get a good paying job and refuses to work a low paying job. And she can't work overseas without paying thousands of dollars to greedy agencies and going through the most tedious and bureaucratic immigration process. It's a no win situation and cannot be solved by logic.

Plus she has a tendency to make dumb reckless decisions. So even if I spend a thousand dollars to set up a business for her in the Philippines, she could easily quit or ruin it. Filipinos are not business minded like chinese are.

I give up. It's out of my control. If anyone has any logical solutions, feel free to share. At this point she is randomly going around trying to get a job somewhere, even in manila where she hates. I asked rock to give her some advice since he is wise and practical, because I give up and do not deal with no win situations.

Remember when you, Dianne, and Angelo visited me at my condo in Makati? And I left for about an hour to go to one of the Makati Western Union Office while you guys were chilling at the pool? I was going to collect the payments I had sent myself from China - both Dongguan and Shenzhen. In China, I did 6 transactions in 2 weeks time, each took me just 30 min to 2 hours. It's not hard to find Western Union branches. They are abundant in Shenzhen and Dongguan. All you have to do is a simple online search or ask a reception at one of the hotels around. You pay the ATM fee when you take out the money for your expenses anyway. So why can't you do it for Angelo's needs as well? If Rock can do it 3 times per week in various banks with just reasonable paperwork and quick taxi rides or walks, can't you manage to do it once or twice for the sake of your son?

Even though you are done with Dianne, don't you wanna take good care of Angelo? In 10-20 years, you just may need him. Dianne will probably move-on while she is young and pretty as soon as she gets the opportunity, a decent guy she likes who wants to settle down with her. And it's possible you might not find a China girl or another Filipina to take her place. So your son may emerge as your primary future family with the passage of some time.

[Rock]

Rock,
That's a great reason not to bring my son to Taiwan. I didn't think of the military service reason. I already gave chanta76 a list of reasons why I wouldn't bring my son to Taiwan in another thread:

I didn't bring my son to live in Taiwan because:

1) I cannot bring him there without bringing Dianne too. But I can't bring Dianne without marrying her. He will not go there without his mother. Marrying Dianne would mean marrying a prudish girl whom I have a sexless relationship with. No one here recommends that. (Are you sure? If you prove he is your biological son through the right kind of DNA test accepted by Taiwan embassy, why can't he go to Taiwan with just you? You are a Taiwan citizen. You should be able to bring your own proven biological son with you to visit, even without the mother, right? Dianne told me Angelo is beginning to understand that she needs to be away to work in order to support him. So he doesn't have to be with her like before. Anyway, if she had gotten the HK job, they would have been separated for months or years. So why couldn't he just as well accept being in Taiwan without her?)

2) I have no fun or dating or social life in Taiwan, so I would not want to live there and would not be happy there long term. So I would have to leave him with my parents and give them the trouble and stress of taking care of him. Would you want to do that to your retired parents who are trying to live a peaceful life? Think about it. (It depends on the attitude of the retired parents. A lot of Taiwanese grandparents absolutely adore their grandchildren and a fair percentage end up being the de-facto parents and caregivers while the young parents earn a living outside or even in some cases work abroad. Some older people don't want the hassle while others would relish being parents again. So it's up to the attitude and outlook of your particular parents. I don't think it's something you can generalize on. Have you ever asked them how they would feel about raising Angelo for a few years in Chiayi?)

3) The Taiwanese school system is strict and cold and conditions students to study crazily long hours under lots of stress. Filipino schools are more laid back. Taiwanese schools make you memorize tons of useless data, which is an unevolved system. Would you want to put your kids through that? Duh. (Well some would say typical Filipino schools tend to churn out ignorant and helpless grads. The contrast between school system here and that in Taiwan is not an obvious win for either side. There are pros and cons to each. At least overwhelming majority of Taiwan grads tend to become financially responsible and independent whereas system in Philippines seems to encourage the weak to rely on the strong instead of developing their own backbone and carrying their own weight. That is not universally true of course, but it happens too much still.)

4) Trying to learn Chinese is too difficult. Would you want to make your kids do that? (YES! Kids pick-up languages fast! Chinese is just another language but as a future job and social tool, extremely valuable in Asia. Look at kids in multi lingual countries. They often become fluent in 3 or more languages by the time they reach mid-teens. I remember I was on MRT in Taipei a couple years ago and saw a white European kid speak a northern Euro language to his mom then ask a security officer standing nearby on the train whether or not he carried a gun in perfect Chinese. He was only like 6 years old and his mom had just given him permission to ask that.)

[Winston]

I do doubt that that such a document would be of much use to you if she decided at some point to sue. I believe that in the eyes of the US law, child support is an obligation. Dianne signing some agreement with you does not absolve you of that responsibility. Once you are the proven father, she could easily sue for it if she was on USA soil or perhaps even if she was not. Actually, since your name is on Angelo's birth certificate, she still might have a case if she found the right lawyer. But I didn't tell her that.

Well by posting it here, you are in effect telling her. Don't you remember she reads this forum too, and pays attention to any thread about her or Angelo? Duh. But anyhow, she can't just get a lawyer to do that. Lawyer's don't work for free. They want thousands of dollars, even in the Philippines. Dianne cannot even buy a hamburger at McDonald's unless someone gives her money for it. So I doubt she could afford that much. If she could, she wouldn't need to sue. So it's an oxymoron.

Just like how it's an oxymoron that agencies in the Philippines want 1,000 or 2,000 USD to place Filipinos in overseas jobs. Yet Filipinos who are desperate to work overseas are in the worst position to shell out 1000 dollars, since they have no money and are always broke and cannot even buy a hamburger unless someone else gives them the money for it.

However, Dianne is unlikely to sue anyway because she is too good-natured and does not like to involve third parties in private affairs. It's not in her nature to do that sort of thing. I know her very well. She is very private and does not like publicity or attention or having strangers meddle in her affairs. She also does not like confrontation and is not a mean-spirited person at all. Thus, she isn't the type that would try to sue me or use third parties to go after me.

[onethousandknives]

Winston, if he got Taiwanese citizenship, besides the possible military obligation, wouldn't he be required to renounce his Philippines citizenship, too? Or would he be considered "overseas Chinese" thanks to you being the father and this doesn't require renunciation? With the military obligation, in a rather funny story, there was actually a white guy who got Taiwanese citizenship in the 90s who served in the Army there. But now the military period is only a few months and not years, so it's less of a big deal imo. This guy here actually got legally adopted by another family to get Taiwanese citizenship.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TC_Lin

[Winston]

Hi all,
I went to AUF hospital today. The most prestigious hospital in angeles city. The DNA test there costs 20,000 php. Damn. Why so expensive?

Can i just do one of those mail in DNA test kits that they have in the US? Would they send it to me in the Philippines so i can mail it back to them with the swab test kit? I guess ill look into that and research it and contact those US services that offer that.

Dianne wants me to get US citizenship for Angelo while the laws still permit it, so angelo can go where he wants to when he grows up and is not limited to the Philippines. I think i trust her enough to know that she wont try to sue for more child support. Ive known her almost 9 years now. Shes not that mean spirited and is not conniving by nature, and doesnt like to involve third parties in her personal affairs.

What you all think?

Btw just to clarify something to you all:

Dianne isnt seeking US citizenship for angelo so he can live in the US. She is seeking it so that he can have a future when he grows up and have opportunities to go overseas for work or study, not in the US, but in any of the other 200 countries of the world. A US passport gives you worldwide opportunities. Thats why.

Dianne believes me about the US. So she isnt aiming to go there. Her sister married an american guy now and lives in california in a nice house, and even she says it isnt that great.

Also, Mr S told me that if angelo were a US citizen, Dianne could not sue me for more child support, because she is not a US citizen and also does not live on US soil. Is that true?

[Winston]

Update:

I saw a flyer on the wall near my hotel for a service called Easy DNA Philippines. It lists a website at www.easydna.ph

Can you guys check it out and let me know what you think?

[chanta76]

Winston,

Why not just bring your son to USA to visit and take a DNA test here in the states if it's too hard in the Philippines. On top of that if you do decide to sponsor your son to the Philippines who will take care of him day to day? Would it be your parents?

Granted USA offer more educational opportunity than the Philippines or you can try to get your son better education in the Philippines. In other words give him the best opportunity he can get in the Philippines.

On side note having kids are hard..but once there is a kid even though you don't want to be day to day dad as a father there has to be some level or responsibility. I asked myself the same question since I am married as of now but not sure about being a parent. What would I do if my wife got pregnant.