Who should run a church?

[Cornfed]

One of the big issues of the Protestant reformation was who should control a religion. This was framed in religious terms, but generally stemmed out of a resentment of the Roman Catholic Church. There seem to be three general solutions.

1.The Catholic Solution. The church has a centralized, self-renewing top down hierarchy which everyone else obeys.

2.The Congregationalist Solution. Local churches are run according to the consensus or majority opinion of their parishioner (generally including women).

3.The Presbyterian Solution. This was a compromise where there was a lot of local control, but rather than stemming from the general congregation, power came from the presbyters - priests, elders etc.

As we know, none of these solutions have really worked in the long run. A central hierarchy may serve as a bulwark against the stupidity of the masses, but is prone to corruption, self-absorbtion and co-option. Congregationalist movements tended to begin well, since they were mostly founded by genuinely devout people, but then succumbed to various forms of mass hysteria and pandering to hysterical females. The Presbyterian solution is probably best but failed to stand up to the collapse of society around it. Probably some better crafted version of this would be the way to go.

[drealm]

I would define the above as the following:

1. elite/centralization

2. democratic/localization

3. elite/localization

I like 3. (Presbyterian) solution the most. I'm not sure how the Eastern Orthodox churches are. I know they go by Name + Eastern Orthodox... in other words Russian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox, etc. So I'm guessing they are 3.

[fschmidt]

The Mennonites seem most successful, but I don't know how they are run, so I asked.

http://forum.mennonet.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=225

[Adama]

Churches should be local entities, not interstate, national or international entities. They should be independent. That way the corruption of the leaders doesn't affect the members. Churches should be run by the pastors and the deacons. That's it.

By the way, how is it that someone who thinks that most of humanity is beneath him can believe in God? I think most people just have religiosity but without God. Lip service, but reprobate concerning their works.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

I find this topic quite ironic from the poster whose hate and unmitigated evil doom him to eternal damnation burning in hell.

Is that fact lost on you somehow Cornfed or are you in the mode of attempting the herculean task of redeeming yourself?

[Cornfed]

I find this topic quite ironic from the poster whose hate and unmitigated evil doom him to eternal damnation burning in hell.

Is that fact lost on you somehow Cornfed or are you in the mode of attempting the herculean task of redeeming yourself?

The human God takes precedence over whatever monkey god you worship. Have a banana.

[gravity25x]

I find this topic quite ironic from the poster whose hate and unmitigated evil doom him to eternal damnation burning in hell.

Is that fact lost on you somehow Cornfed or are you in the mode of attempting the herculean task of redeeming yourself?

The human God takes precedence over whatever monkey god you worship. Have a banana.

Contrarian, I've been here a relatively short time so I don't really know who is who. Why would you say that Cornfed is evil?

He certainly makes snarky comments quite often, but he's not usually hostile for no reason (at least to me), so why would you say he's evil?

[Contrarian Expatriate]

I find this topic quite ironic from the poster whose hate and unmitigated evil doom him to eternal damnation burning in hell.

Is that fact lost on you somehow Cornfed or are you in the mode of attempting the herculean task of redeeming yourself?

The human God takes precedence over whatever monkey god you worship. Have a banana.

Contrarian, I've been here a relatively short time so I don't really know who is who. Why would you say that Cornfed is evil?

He certainly makes snarky comments quite often, but he's not usually hostile for no reason (at least to me), so why would you say he's evil?

You might have a point in the sense that in Cornfed's particular case, the interplay of untreated mental illness and pitifully low self-esteem borne of pathology in his proletarian family of origin plays a role. I also highly suspect that there may have been some vicious sexual abuse at the hands of black males factoring into his rage. Poor fella....

But if you review some of his prescriptions for racial hatred and violence in his posting history, it illustrates my point very clearly. But if he is now on the path to reversing the karmic damnation to which he has sentenced himself, that would be a positive step.

[Moretorque]

I find this topic quite ironic from the poster whose hate and unmitigated evil doom him to eternal damnation burning in hell.

Is that fact lost on you somehow Cornfed or are you in the mode of attempting the herculean task of redeeming yourself?

The human God takes precedence over whatever monkey god you worship. Have a banana.

Contrarian, I've been here a relatively short time so I don't really know who is who. Why would you say that Cornfed is evil?

He certainly makes snarky comments quite often, but he's not usually hostile for no reason (at least to me), so why would you say he's evil?

You might have a point in the sense that in Cornfed's particular case, the interplay of untreated mental illness and pitifully low self-esteem born of pathology in his proletarian family of origin plays a role. I also highly suspect that there may have been some vicious sexual abuse at the hands of black males factoring into his rage. Poor fella....

But if you review some of his prescriptions for racial hatred and violence in his posting history, it illustrates my point very clearly. But if he is now on the path to reversing the karmic damnation to which he has sentenced himself, that would be a positive step.

Contra you called it, I keep trying to tell the Great Corny some blacks are twice as talented as me and him put together butt he be never listen.

You said last year to buy Zinc and did the Corny listen ??? The Blackman call dat like it was to be dare. If only whitey would learn to listen and respect his elders this place may be a much better place to live...