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The Truth Behind Islam

Discuss religion and spirituality topics.

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Yohan
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Re: The Truth Behind Islam

Post by Yohan » November 10th, 2017, 4:40 am

Adama wrote: Yohan, Catholicism has sold out to feminism.

Catholics are easier to get saved than Muslims because they haven't denied the divinity of Christ, which the Muslims do, but it is still a false religion.
I don't care about any religion anymore, as long as it is not threatening me personally and wants to force me to do this or that.

So far I can say, only Muslims have an ideology to attack and kill every infidel/pagan in 2017, no other religion follows such a teaching anymore.
Might be, it was different 500 years ago, but now not any more.

As a former Catholic and now strongly convinced atheist, I can really say, Catholicism was selling out its ideology, its faith to feminism.

However it was easy to leave Catholicism legally - I had to bring the Baptism certificate to the ward office and it was given back to me after a few weeks with a stamp on it: Officially removed from the Catholic church register/date - and that's all.

I was approached by some FEW unfriendly Catholics, especially priests and people near to them (at that time Central Europe was over 85 percent Catholic in my area) in the small town I was living and asking me directly why I left - but I was never threaten with 'apostasy', to beat me up or to kill me.

I never had any problem at my working places or in schools, despite religious information had to be given and there was a 'church tax' to be paid, even now. - All what I had to do was to write in any form instead of 'katholisch' to write 'o.B.' (ohne Bekenntnis = without religion) and this was it.

-----

I am living now in a country with a small Christian community, maybe 1 % of the population. These Japanese Christians do not harm anybody.
Some foreign Chistians, often from Korea and some from USA are also moving around, but nobody is any threat to anybody.
Also some Buddhist and Shinto groups are asking for joining them, if not, then not....

There are even some Buddhist sects and some other cults, which are mixing up Christianity and Buddhism. Otherwise in Japan often land is shared by a Buddhist temple and a Shinto shrine.

Islam has no function in Japan, maybe it is 0.1 % of the population of 127 million people or so, with some Indonesians, Bangladesh citizens, and some foreign diplomats etc...

----

If Catholics are easier to 'save' than Muslims, you mean likely to convert from Islam to Christianity, I don't know, but I think you are right.

Muslims I noticed when they do not want to be Muslims any longer, they merely try to stay away from prayers etc. with excuses, they become silent and passive.

It is very dangerous in certain Muslim countries to become an infidel/pagan, for example in Pakistan. Even your own relatives or long time co-workers will report you for apostasy and blasphemy to authorities.

Other countries will not even accept your application to leave Islam, like in Malaysia - you might even face criminal charges if you try to do it in some Malaysian states.

In Western countries I noticed some former Muslims feel only safe if they move away from their neighborhood to another city and ask authorities to change their name while applying for citizenship.

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Re: The Truth Behind Islam

Post by Contrarian Expatriate » November 10th, 2017, 4:46 am

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Yohan
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Re: The Truth Behind Islam

Post by Yohan » November 10th, 2017, 6:14 am

Instead of remaining silent and tolerant against infidels/pagans who were creating a few drawings, the behavior of Muslims is now a target of many not-really-so-funny drawings.

Exactly the opposite of what Muslims want the Western world to be.

Image

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Re: The Truth Behind Islam

Post by MrPeabody » November 10th, 2017, 4:53 pm

Westoxification

Term coined by the Iranian secular intellectual Jalal al-e Ahmad to describe the fascination with and dependence upon the West to the detriment of traditional, historical, and cultural ties to Islam and Islamic world. Defined as an indiscriminate borrowing from and imitation of the West, joining the twin dangers of cultural imperialism and political domination.

Implies a sense of intoxication or infatuation that impairs rational judgment and confers an inability to see the dangers presented by the toxic substance, that is, the West.

The West's inherent dangers are described as moral laxity, social injustice, secularism, devaluation of religion, and obsession with money, all of which are fueled by capitalism; the common result is cultural alienation.

http://www.oxfordislamicstudies.com/art ... t125/e2501

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Re: The Truth Behind Islam

Post by Misko_Varesanovic » November 11th, 2017, 3:39 pm

Yohan wrote:Instead of remaining silent and tolerant against infidels/pagans who were creating a few drawings, the behavior of Muslims is now a target of many not-really-so-funny drawings.

Exactly the opposite of what Muslims want the Western world to be.
It's amazing how some people prefer cartoons to reality.

Star TV's line-up for September 2017:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfT1ViE41qw[/youtube]

You haven't even heard of any of the people in this clip - despite the fact that these are stars from some of the most popular TV shows in the most-exported media market anywhere in the OIC - and you're seemingly happy to remain ignorant, like a prole in Orwell's 1984, faithfully reciting the the Two-Minutes Hate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Minutes_Hate

This is exactly what Winston Wu warned us about: sucking up everything that a morally compromised media throws at you, even when it is against your own interests.

Do you not see how you're being played like a piano?

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Re: The Truth Behind Islam

Post by Misko_Varesanovic » November 11th, 2017, 4:00 pm

Yohan wrote:https://islamqa.info/en/69811

Interesting to read that Muslims are not allowed to wish any infidel and pagan a 'Happy New Year'.
I understand it about Christmas or Easter, but to wish a person, who is NOT a Muslim, to be happy and healthy this coming year is also against Islamic values?
Quoting from Salafi 'Shaykhs' to prove a point about 'Islam' is a losing battle, I'm afraid. What they say has zero basis in Islamic theology. As I said before, they literally do not believe in the four orthodox schools of Sunni thought and regard Shiites as heretics.

Let me give you a worked example: in 1990, there was a ban imposed on women driving in Saudi Arabia - which, lest we forget, is a US oil protectorate - for 'religious reasons'.

In 2017, this ban was swiftly and suddenly cancelled.

https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/26/1636 ... ifted-uber

http://theconversation.com/saudi-decree ... gion-84809

'Despite the noise that accompanied the decree, this move is not some bold initiative to present a new religious interpretation of the issue. Theologically speaking, the ban has no basis in the Quran or Hadith, and should never have been imposed in the first place. Saudi Arabia was the only country in the region that banned women from driving cars, and its claims to religious and cultural legitimacy were baseless. The denial of this basic right was not only blatantly against the precepts of Islam, but has tainted the name of Islam in a country that flatters itself as the defender of the true faith.'

The same is true of your greetings 'ban'. Not only is there no basis for it in the Islamic religion, it contradicts standard historical practice in the Islamic world, which was for Muslims, Christians and Jews to celebrate each other's festivals.

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Re: The Truth Behind Islam

Post by Yohan » November 11th, 2017, 6:01 pm

Misko_Varesanovic wrote: Quoting from Salafi 'Shaykhs' to prove a point about 'Islam' is a losing battle, I'm afraid. What they say has zero basis in Islamic theology
That's a good video.

[youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJAL6xgViqg
[/youtube]

If Salafis are not Muslims and if teaching of their leaders has zero basis in Islamic theology, I have to ask who is a Muslim and who is not.

There are more than 50 million Salafi - who belong to Sunni Islam - and nowhere they are considered as non-Muslims.
Near Saudi Arabia, like in Qatar, Bahrain, Emirates, there are up to 50 percent Salafis.

This is quite different from the Ahmadiyya, the Muslim group you presented in this thread as Muslims and as being especially open and inviting to non-Muslims.

This Ahmadiyya Muslim group is often considered as a cult and rejected by mainstream Muslims and in Pakistan legally classified as 'non-Muslim'.
Last edited by Yohan on November 23rd, 2017, 6:36 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: The Truth Behind Islam

Post by Misko_Varesanovic » November 12th, 2017, 9:13 pm

Yohan wrote:
Misko_Varesanovic wrote: Quoting from Salafi 'Shaykhs' to prove a point about 'Islam' is a losing battle, I'm afraid. What they say has zero basis in Islamic theology
That's a good video.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJAL6xgViqg[/youtube]

If Salafis are not Muslims and if teaching of their leaders has zero basis in Islamic theology, I have to ask who is a Muslim and who is not.

There are more than 50 million Salafi - who belong to Sunni Islam - and nowhere they are considered as non-Muslims.
Near Saudi Arabia, like in Qatar, Bahrain, Emirates, there are up to 50 percent Salafis.

This is quite different from the Ahmadiyya, the Muslim group you presented in this thread as Muslims and as being especially open and inviting to non-Muslims.

This Ahmadiyya Muslim group is often considered as a cult and rejected by mainstream Muslims and in Pakistan legally classified as 'non-Muslim'.
It is entirely correct to say that Salafis are not orthodox Muslims. They are sometimes filed under 'Sunni' in certain academic categorisations because some of them claim adherence to the Hanbali school of law/ethics, but as Vincenzo Oliveti shows in Terror's Source: The Ideology of Salafism and Its Consequences, this is pretty tenuous because in practice, Salafis ignore most Hanbali rulings and in fact emphasise that they represent 'Islam without madhabs' or schools of law.

You have to remember that Salafism is historically very new. It literally did not exist before the late eighteenth century, and even then for most of the time since then it has been a peripheral movement. The key reason that this ideology has assumed any kind of prominence is that in the last 50 years or so, the handful of countries where it has serious traction have suddenly become oil-rich nations with a budget of infinity. That, and the fact that some Western nations support violent Salafists because this helps destabilise the MENA region, presumably making it easier to dominate, though it doesn't always work out that way.

However, most of these Salafi-run nations are running out of both oil and cash. Additionally, they are generally perceived negatively by most Muslims as the latter have become aware that Salafis have destroyed almost all the historical sites in the two holiest cities in Islam over the past circa three decades. So in recent years, they have lost a lot of their soft power.

Ahmadiyyas are generally not regarded as Orthodox Muslims, either. It is almost pointless citing these as an example of mainstream Islam because they do not belong to mainstream Islam theologically.

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Re: The Truth Behind Islam

Post by Yohan » November 14th, 2017, 3:38 am

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/artic ... wives.html

Full text see link above
'It's honourable': Muslim man behind website that helps married men find second wives claims it EMPOWERS women on This Morning (but viewers accuse him of justifying cheating)
Azad Chaiwala set up SecondWife.com for married men who want a second wife
He claims it is an 'honourable' way to have an extra-marital relationship
He argued it also 'empowers' second wives by legitimising their position

The man behind a website to help Muslim men find 'second wives' has insisted the service can 'empower' women.

Azad Chaiwala, from Sunderland, set up SecondWife.com, for the 'small section' of Muslims who are looking to have multiple wives.

Appearing on ITV's This Morning, Mr Chaiwala said his website would discourage women from being mistresses and instead 'empower' them by legitimising the relationship in a way that allows it to be regarded as more than just an affair.

Viewers were shocked by Azed's beliefs, saying he was using the website to justify cheating. One tweeted: 'He says it empowers women... I'd take it more like a slap in the face as the husband is saying "you're not enough for me anymore, you're only half of what I need".'

Azad Chaiwala, set up SecondWife.com, to help Muslim men find more wives. He claims the website helps 'empower' women by legitimising the extra-marital relationship

Polygamy, where a person has more than one spouse, is illegal in the UK, carrying a possible prison sentence of up to seven years.

Such marriages are only recognised if they took place in countries where they are legal. However, there is no law to stop unregistered religious ceremonies taking place.

Mr Chaiwala said he set up the website because he had noticed Muslim men were looking for second wives but didn't know where to find one.

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Yohan
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Re: The Truth Behind Islam

Post by Yohan » November 14th, 2017, 3:40 am

Personally I think, even one woman is already more than enough - or even one is one too many sometimes :lol:

And of course this guy does not even mention anything about money, only rich people can marry several women and provide all what they want for themselves to agree with such a relationship - Islam is often very materialistic and single-sided orientated. the man should pay for everything...

Most young poor Muslim men are lonely.

Interesting follow-up comments
theCurmudgeon, birmingham, United Kingdom, 2 days ago
It's up to the women to say NO, they walk straight into these situations. While they do, the men will carry on having their cake & eating it.

Cath41rhondda, Rhondda, United Kingdom, 2 days ago
What about two husbands for the woman?

Primalist, Safely over the Border, United Kingdom, 2 days ago
As bigamy is illegal in the UK, this guy should be prosecuted for assisting offenders.

Ruby88, Edinburgh, United Kingdom, 2 days ago
Bigamy is illegal in this country, the site should be shut down!

Mary, London, 2 days ago
If second marriages are so great, then women should have two husbands. I'm sure it would be great for us, too. (Obviously, these men only want what they want for themselves.)

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Yohan
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Re: The Truth Behind Islam

Post by Yohan » November 14th, 2017, 4:04 am

To be fair, about the Western world, legally to be married with two women is not allowed, but a relationship like this one is OK?
This is a 'family'?

The Western world is really nothing better sometimes, if you compare it with Islam

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/artic ... ogate.html
'We adore her and she is family now': Gay couple who became fathers to TWINS praise their 'selfless' surrogate and her husband for the sacrifices they made so they could have children
British couple Stephen Glover, 36, and Andrew Murray, 53, live in Australia
The couple met their American surrogate, Katy, through an agency in July 2016
Katy suffered a miscarriage before falling pregnant with twins Reilly and Phoenix
Stephen and Andrew say Katy and her husband, Nathan, now feel like family

A gay couple have praised the 'selfless' stranger who agreed to be their surrogate so they could realise their dream of having children.
Stephen Glover, 36, and Andrew Murray, 53, who live in Brisbane, Australia, welcomed twins Reilly and Phoenix in September this year with the help of their American surrogate, Katy, who they met through an online agency.
Katy, who has two children with husband Nathan, first fell pregnant in early 2016 but miscarried at nine weeks. She later agreed to try again to give Stephen and Andrew the children they longed for.
Stephen and Andrew described how they share a 'special bond' with Katy and that her children now consider their twins their 'cousins'.
Sorry, but this is also not my way of life,
A gay couple gives their sperm to a married women to carry out their children?
Christianity should speak out about such a life-style, but remains silent - just sold out it's moral values to feminism.

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Re: The Truth Behind Islam

Post by Yohan » November 14th, 2017, 12:35 pm



I really wonder who in this video is a Muslim and who is not?



And in this one?



And what about this one?
Last edited by Yohan on November 23rd, 2017, 6:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Truth Behind Islam

Post by Yohan » November 14th, 2017, 12:42 pm



Ex-Muslim



Another Ex-Muslim...

Some people openly leave Islam ... Quite dangerous for their lives what they are doing

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Re: The Truth Behind Islam

Post by MrPeabody » November 22nd, 2017, 4:40 pm

Islam in France BBC Documentary


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Re: The Truth Behind Islam

Post by Misko_Varesanovic » November 22nd, 2017, 6:26 pm

Yohan wrote:
November 14th, 2017, 3:40 am

Most young poor Muslim men are lonely.
I have no real idea where you get this from given that the family unit within most Muslim-majority societies is relatively strong. AFAIK, there is no OIC equivalent of Stockholm or parts of NYC, where single-person households are the norm.

If anything, the criticism should be the other way round: that Muslims - at least these days - are too focused on private consumption and don't give enough attention to the public realm. That would at least make sense.
Last edited by Misko_Varesanovic on November 22nd, 2017, 7:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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