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Was there a historical Jesus Christ? If so, who was he?

Discuss religion and spirituality topics.

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TruthSeeker
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Re: Was there a historical Jesus Christ? If so, who was he?

Post by TruthSeeker » December 12th, 2018, 3:12 pm

Good works always follow a genuine faith. Jesus said the works that I do shall you do also and greater works. So yes, we as Christians do good works. The works themselves do not save but are evidence of a true faith in Christ.

Why is it that you lack understanding on this and other issues? Are you so blind that you can not see?




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TruthSeeker
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Re: Was there a historical Jesus Christ? If so, who was he?

Post by TruthSeeker » December 12th, 2018, 5:24 pm

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

I would agree that faith is an evidence but it's not the only evidence.

True faith produces good works. Jesus said you shall know them by their fruits (Matt. 7:16). Fruits are works which are produced as a result of faith.

Matthew 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

You just need to learn to get the horse before the cart Neo.

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Neo
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Re: Was there a historical Jesus Christ? If so, who was he?

Post by Neo » December 12th, 2018, 5:28 pm

TruthSeeker wrote:
December 12th, 2018, 3:12 pm
Good works always follow a genuine faith. Jesus said the works that I do shall you do also and greater works. So yes, we as Christians do good works. The works themselves do not save but are evidence of a true faith in Christ.

Why is it that you lack understanding on this and other issues? Are you so blind that you can not see?
No, good works do not always follow, which is why there is such a thing as a carnal Christian. That is also why someone can be saved, yet their faith can be dead, because they are not doing any good works (works that profit or benefit others).

Works are not for salvation. A person who trusts on his own works is trusting on his own ability to keep the commandments, which means he is trusting on his own righteousness. That would make him is own messiah. To be saved a person must only trust in Christ, because He, as the Son of God, completed all of the commandments, which is why salvation is without works as Paul tells us in Ephesians 2:8-9. A person must trust in Christ and His righteousness, not on their own. If a person trusts on his own righteousness, it denies Jesus as the Messiah.

Good works must be done, only the person must realize that he cannot trust on his works for salvation.

This is why Ephesians 2:8-9 says it twice: NOT OF WORKS. NOT OF YOURSELVES. It is not from the person. The righteousness of Christ is imputed onto the believer as a gift for believing in Christ. God requires nothing else for salvation except our faith in THE MESSIAH, His Son, the Son of God, who is the Redeemer. We can't be co-redeemers with Christ by both trusting on our own works and His. That doesn't count.

Anyone who trusts in his own works, will be judged by his works. Anyone who is judged by his works will be condemned by his works, because he is not Christ. Because the standard of salvation by works is impossible unless the person is God in the flesh.

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Neo
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Re: Was there a historical Jesus Christ? If so, who was he?

Post by Neo » December 12th, 2018, 5:31 pm

TruthSeeker wrote:
December 12th, 2018, 5:24 pm
Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

I would agree that faith is an evidence but it's not the only evidence.

True faith produces good works. Jesus said you shall know them by their fruits (Matt. 7:16). Fruits are works which are produced as a result of faith.

Matthew 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

You just need to learn to get the horse before the cart Neo.
Those are not salvation verses. For salvation, look to verses that indicate salvation. If the verse doesn't say, saved/justified, eternal life/everlasting life, righteousness/salvation or born again/regenerated, etc., then it is probably not a salvation verse.

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Re: Was there a historical Jesus Christ? If so, who was he?

Post by Pinayhunter » December 12th, 2018, 5:56 pm

How can a non-believer become a believer though? What evidence can we provide to make them change their minds? It’s so easy to be deceived with all the distractions and deceptions in our modern world. I spent over a decade going down the neverending rabbit hole of conspiracy theories and new age spirituality, so I know firsthand.

A lot of my family members are non-believers, and I don’t want any of them to go to hell. In fact, I don’t even want my worst enemy to go there. It bothers me how cavelier a lot of Christians are about the subject - some even joke about it.

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Neo
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Re: Was there a historical Jesus Christ? If so, who was he?

Post by Neo » December 12th, 2018, 6:02 pm

All that can be done, is to offer to present the gospel to the unbelievers. Some will accept and then they can be shown the gospel. Some will not be able to believe the gospel. Most will reject the offer to hear the gospel.

Although there is evidence, most of it has been explained away by satanic deceptions that have gripped the whole world. For that reason, trying to use evidence to get someone to believe probably won't work.

Either a person can believe and wants to put their trust in Christ, or they can't or won't.

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Re: Was there a historical Jesus Christ? If so, who was he?

Post by TruthSeeker » December 12th, 2018, 7:14 pm

Pinayhunter wrote:
December 12th, 2018, 5:56 pm
A lot of my family members are non-believers, and I don’t want any of them to go to hell. In fact, I don’t even want my worst enemy to go there. It bothers me how cavelier a lot of Christians are about the subject - some even joke about it.
Hey Pinayhunter all you can do is speak the truth in love (Eph. 4:15) and in meekness instruct those that oppose themselves (2 Tim. 2:25) if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth.

You see it says over here in 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

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Re: Was there a historical Jesus Christ? If so, who was he?

Post by Winston » December 13th, 2018, 6:49 am

Neo are you adama? If so why did you change your screen name? Would you put your hand on the bible and swear that you're not adama? Lol
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Neo
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Re: Was there a historical Jesus Christ? If so, who was he?

Post by Neo » December 13th, 2018, 7:52 pm

Acts 13:39 KJV And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

This verse also shows that a person cannot be saved by keeping the commandments.


Galatians 3:11 KJV But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Galatians 3:6 KJV Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

Genesis 15:6 KJV And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness

James 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Romans 4:6 KJV Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

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Re: Was there a historical Jesus Christ? If so, who was he?

Post by Pinayhunter » December 26th, 2018, 8:48 pm

We have more historical, archaeological, and scientific evidence for Jesus than any other person in antiquity. We have the Bible, which is self-authenticating if you actually read and obey it. We have countless modern testimonies that are in line with Scripture.

A lot of you skeptics already believe in the supernatural anyway. How much of a leap is to to believe Christianity is true? All these phenomena like ghosts, aliens, and OBE’s make so much more sense through the lens of Scripture anyway.

To all you non-Christians, all I can say is... you BETTER be right. Watch this entire clip - it’s only 8 minutes.


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Re: Was there a historical Jesus Christ? If so, who was he?

Post by TruthSeeker » December 26th, 2018, 11:03 pm

Yeah and Bill Wiese is making a lot of money off it. We don't believe in hell because Bill Wiese says so. We believe in hell because the Bible says so. And Jesus talked about hell.

Psalms 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

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Neo
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Re: Was there a historical Jesus Christ? If so, who was he?

Post by Neo » January 4th, 2019, 10:48 pm

As for all those who believe salvation must be more complex than simply trusting in Christ by faith alone (without repentance), here is a verse for you, if you are able to comprehend and accept it:


2 Corinthians 11:3 KJV But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

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Re: Was there a historical Jesus Christ? If so, who was he?

Post by TruthSeeker » January 4th, 2019, 11:08 pm

You're saying repentance isn't necessary? You're wrong on that.

Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Luke 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

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Neo
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Re: Was there a historical Jesus Christ? If so, who was he?

Post by Neo » January 4th, 2019, 11:26 pm

There are two kinds of repentance. This may be a snare to all those who are unaware of it.

God repented in the Old Testament. So this is how we know that repentance is not always about sin.

There is:
1. Repentance from sin, which is turning from sin to keep the commandments, which is work, also known as trusting in our own righteousness if the person believes faith + works save them.
2. Just like God in the OT, there is repentance of mind. In the case of salvation, this means the person changes their mind. Switching from believing the lies of the world, or switching from being an atheist, into believing in Christ is repentance of mind and repentance of heart.

Repent and believe is the same as saying, Change your mind from unbelief to belief.

Also, people should keep in mind that the phrase "repent from sin" or "repent of sin" is never mentioned in the King James. However, ideally, a person who gets saved will repent from their sin, after they accept that Christ is God and the commandments are real and not just from any other religion.

Salvation cannot be by repentance from sin, because repentance from sin is turning from sin to keep the commandments, which is work. And as we all know (although we all do not accept it), salvation is not by the law, it is not by works, because salvation is outside the commandments and completely and totally and simply by faith in Christ and His righteousness.

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Re: Was there a historical Jesus Christ? If so, who was he?

Post by Neo » January 4th, 2019, 11:42 pm

Salvation is by faith, which occurs in the heart:

Romans 10 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

This is repentance of heart/mind: it is simply a change of mind/heart to believe in Christ.

God repents, yet God is always without sin:

Jeremiah 26:13; Amos 7:6; Jonah 3:9, Jonah 3:10

The only one who can be saved by works, by the keeping of the commandments is Christ. A person would have to be God in the flesh to be justified or saved by the commandments. That is half the reason why Christ came into the world: to overcome the law and conquer it because it is impossible for mortal man. This is why salvation is without works. Christ did the work because we can't as mortal beings. The other half that Christ did was, He died for our sins, so that we can avoid the eternal penalty of hell.

God wants everyone to live again. He doesn't want to send anyone to hell. That's why He sent Christ to do all the work for us. All we have to do is believe in Him. Some people are simply unable to believe in the simplicity of Christ, which means they may not live again on the New Earth or see eternal life without the influence of the wicked one (the first of the fallen).

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