Did Jesus Christ Exist as a historical person? If so, who was he?

[Winston]

Historical quotes from early church fathers about the Ebionites, an early group of Jewish Christians who rejected Paul's version of Christianity:

The Ebionites were most likely the true successors of the Torah keeping followers of Yahoshua. And they rejected Paul.

Iranaeus, "Against Heresies", 1.27.2 - on the Ebionites
"Those who are called Ebionites agree that the world was made by God; but their opinions with respect to the Lord are similar to those of Cerinthus and Carpocrates. They use the Gospel according to Matthew only, and REPUDIATE THE APOSTLE PAUL, MAINTAINING THAT HE WAS AN APOSTATE FROM THE LAW. As to the prophetical writings, they endeavour to expound them in a somewhat singular manner: they practise circumcision, persevere in the observance of those customs which are enjoined by the law, and are so Judaic in their style of life, that they even adore Jerusalem as if it were the house of God.

Origen: Contra Celsus: 5:61 On the Ebionites:
"Let it be admitted, moreover, that there are some who accept Jesus, and who boast on that account of being Christians, and yet would regulate their lives, like the Jewish multitude, in accordance with the Jewish law,-and these are the twofold sect of Ebionites, who either acknowledge with us that Jesus was born of a virgin, or deny this, and maintain that He was begotten like other human beings...
5:61 "...there are certain heretical sects which DO NOT RECEIVE THE EPISTLES OF THE APOSTLE PAUL, AS THE TWO SECTS OF EBIONITES"

Eusebius: Ecclesaistical History, 3.27.4
"These men [Ebionites], moreover, thought that it was necessary to REJECT ALL THE EPISTLES OF THE APOSTLE, WHOM THEY CALLED AN APOSTATE FROM THE LAW."

[Winston]

Dr. Bart Ehrman, one of the top secular Biblical scholars, explains here in this talk why the Ebionite version of Christianity is most likely closer to the original than the version that Paul created. The Ebionites believed Jesus was the spiritual messiah (not political) but to be his follower, one had to become a Jew and keep the Jewish rites and laws as well. Apparently, the Ebionite version of Christianity was started by Jesus' own brother James and the Apostle Peter too. So there was a huge rift in early Christianity between James and Peter vs. Paul. Wow that's fascinating and puts into question the doctrines of orthodox Christianity.



Rabbi Tovia explains below why the early church crushed the Ebionites for rejecting Paul's version of Christianity.

[Winston]

Wondering why the Jewish historian Philo of Alexandria, who lived at the same time as Jesus allegedly did, never even mentioned Jesus once, which is very incriminating against the historicity of Jesus, I Googled "Why didn't Philo mention Jesus" and here are the responses I got:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAChristian/ ... o_make_no/

https://www.quora.com/Why-didn%E2%80%99 ... s-writings

http://www.stephenjbedard.com/2012/08/0 ... ing-jesus/

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/philo.html

https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateAChristi ... out_jesus/

[MrMan]

Wondering why the Jewish historian Philo of Alexandria, who lived at the same time as Jesus allegedly did, never even mentioned Jesus once, which is very incriminating against the historicity of Jesus, I Googled "Why didn't Philo mention Jesus" and here are the responses I got:

You don't know if Philo never mentioned Jesus. I would argue that he did, since he wrote about the Word of God, but not by the name Jesus.

But it is not incriminating since Philo was in Alexandria in Egypt and Jesus only ministered in the historical holy land, Gallilee down to Judea, though he did pass through Samaria-- still historically Israelite land-- at least on one occasion.

The Bible never mentions Jesus mentioning Philo. Does that mean Philo did not exist?

[Winston]

Wow check this out. Apparently there is a lot of evidence that Jesus and the early Christians were vegetarian! And that the Bible promotes vegetarianism too!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_vegetarianism

https://www.compassionatespirit.com/wpb ... egetarian/

Genesis 1:29-30
"Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food”; and it was so."

These verse is clearly stated every plant and tree with fruits shall be the only food for human. Animals and every living beings that crawl, swim or fly around earth is not food for human. But God have given them every green plant for food.

James the brother of Jesus, the first leader of the Jerusalem church after Jesus’ departure, was universally acknowledged to be a strict vegetarian, and in fact was raised as a vegetarian (Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History 2.23.5–6). Why would Jesus’ family raise James as a vegetarian, but not Jesus? The natural conclusion is that Jesus’ parents raised Jesus and James as vegetarians and that this was part of the original gospel message.

See these video presentations below.





Today! Two Podcasts Combined to Create a Presentation Over Ninety Minutes in Length Intended to Be the Most Comprehensive Collection Ever of Vegetarian References Providing Evidence For the Vegetarianism of Yeshua (Jesus), the Apostles, the Jesus Movement (Hebrew Christians, Ebionites,) and Other Expressions of Early Christianity. An Outline, the Major Segments Include the Following:

Evidence That Jesus and The Original Aramaic Christians Were Vegetarians:

Dueling Gospel Traditions — Pro-Meat and Pro-Veg;

What About Those Pesky ‘Fishes and Loaves’?

Textual Variations in Greek Manuscripts;

Was John the Baptist Really A Bug-Eater?

Christianity Before Paul (The Original Hebrew Christians or Ebionites) and the Essene Connection -- The Essene Branch of Judaism Not Just Kosher But Vegetarian;

Thou Shalt Not Kill: The Biblical Basis For Vegetarianism: A Vegetarian Ideal Described In Genesis and Isaiah;

Signing Up Paul to the Vegetarian Cause After All;

Uncovering a Vegetarian Jesus (Yeshua) at the Beginning of Christianity: Vegetarian Sayings of Jesus;

Jesus Stopping Animal Sacrifice in the Temple;

The Vegetarian Apostles (Leadership of the Original Jesus Movement) -- Vegetarian Quotes About the Apostles;

Church Fathers And Other Later Voices Affirming the Existence of the Earlier Veg Tradition;

Inter-Faith Love! An Ebionite Christian author had very nice things to say about those in India who worship One God, follow peaceful customs and laws, and are vegetarian or vegan.

The Gnostics Were Vegetarians;

The Vegetarian Prayer of Thanksgiving in the Nag Hammadi Library (Gnostic Gospels) and Corpus Hermeticum;

Texts I DO NOT CITE: What About Those Modern-Day Essene Gospels of Peace? What About Those Groups That Call Themselves Essenes: "Essene" VS. the More Accurate Term: "Ebionite";

Did Jesus Travel to India? Gospel of Isa, another text I AVOID.

Real Wisdom from the East: The Spiritual and Ethical Reasons Why Saints Advocate Following a Non-violent Vegetarian or Vegan Diet;

Peace Be to You,
James
Spiritual Awakening Radio

* Website:
http://www.SpiritualAwakeningRadio.com

[Winston]

Slide presentation about the original followers of Jesus and the different factions they were divided into. Very fascinating.

[Neo]

Winston, what if Christ is real? What will you say when you meet Him on the day of your death?

[Winston]

Winston, what if Christ is real? What will you say when you meet Him on the day of your death?

Haven't you been reading the last few threads? Don't you get it? If there was a historical Jesus, then he was nothing like what Paul portrayed and created. He was very different. That's the point. Thus he will not be sending us to hell just because we didn't "accept him" and the doctrine of fundamentalist Christianity. In fact, Jesus will be proud of me because I took the time to research and find out what his true message was and what he really said. I mean the original Jesus, not the one created by Paul and the Romans to serve as a control system of profit. You need to do a lot more research man. It appears you don't know what's going on. Your mind is all black and white and knee jerk reaction. Please follow my next few links. Thanks.

[Winston]

Dr. Rupert Sheldrake, the famous pioneer of telepathy studies, explains in this 30 min talk the meaning of the Jesus archetype. What's fascinating is that the Jesus archetype or motif is deeply biological (not just spiritual) and even has relevance and meaning in the animal kingdom among animals as well. That's very fascinating. I never thought of it that way.

Description:

This is a really wonderful discussion by Rupert Sheldrake and Mark Vernon regarding the archetypes and symbolism of Jesus Christ. This audio gives a deep appreciation for the complexity and variety of interpretations and meaning that can be found in the teachings of Jesus.
Enjoy!

[Winston]

For anyone interested in the original teachings of Jesus, or Yeshua (his original name), this is a must hear. It's a playlist of video talks by Jeffrey Daugherty, former Christian minister, who spent his whole life studying the Bible and Christianity. In this video series he takes us step by step in deciphering the true and original teachings of the original Jesus (Yeshua). There are 25 videos but each one is less than 15 minutes so they aren't that long. I think he is right about most things and on the same page as me and has come to similar conclusions that me and Mr S has about the origins of Christianity.

The Original Teachings of Jesus (Yeshua)

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... uBG5lmHGXi

Here is part 1:

[Neo]

Winston, what if Christ is real? What will you say when you meet Him on the day of your death?

Haven't you been reading the last few threads? Don't you get it? If there was a historical Jesus, then he was nothing like what Paul portrayed and created. He was very different. That's the point. Thus he will not be sending us to hell just because we didn't "accept him" and the doctrine of fundamentalist Christianity. In fact, Jesus will be proud of me because I took the time to research and find out what his true message was and what he really said. I mean the original Jesus, not the one created by Paul and the Romans to serve as a control system of profit. You need to do a lot more research man. It appears you don't know what's going on. Your mind is all black and white and knee jerk reaction. Please follow my next few links. Thanks.

But what if He says, "All you ever had to do was to accept the free gift of salvation by simply believing that I am the Son of God, the Messiah, who died for all your sins"? What would you say to Him then, if He were to ask you, why you refused to believe in Him? I think it might be too late after death to prove faith in Christ after having seen Him in person at the Judgment Seat.

[Winston]

Well I officially accepted Christ in 1983 at Fremont Christian summer school. I was invited to during chapel. So I did that part. Anyone can do that. It only takes 5 minutes. Didn't you read my story and testimony? But as I mentioned, that's American Evangelical Christianity, not traditional Christianity or original Christianity, and not literal truth either. You keep forgetting that, because fundamentalism has hijacked your mind. I know because I used to be a fundamentalist too, so I know how your mind works and thinks. It's only literal truth in your mind, not in reality, especially other people's reality.

[Winston]

Wow check this out. Even Thomas Jefferson, the great founding father, said that Paul corrupted the message of Jesus. See what Jefferson wrote about that below in his letters and correspondences. He also said the Gospels are a mix of truth and lies and does not seem to come from the same source, but from multiple sources with different agendas and corruptions.

https://www.monticello.org/site/jeffers ... -quotation

"Among the sayings and discourses imputed to him by his biographers, I find many passages of fine imagination, correct morality, and of the most lovely benevolence: and others again of so much ignorance, so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism, and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same being. I separate therefore the gold from the dross; restore to him the former, and leave the latter to the stupidity of some, and roguery of others of his disciples. Of this band of dupes and impostors, Paul was the great Coryphaeus, and first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus. These palpable interpolations and falsifications of his doctrines led me to try to sift them apart."
- Thomas Jefferson to William Short, Monticello, 13 April 1820

[Pinayhunter]

He wasn’t just a good teacher, Winston. He was the Son of God, and he died for our sins. New age deception has blinded you from the truth.

If we’re all just little pieces of God experiencing Himself and Jesus isn’t who the Bible says he is, then why do NDE and OBE testimonies all point to Christianity? Why do demons flee upon hearing His name? Why did I stop having night terrors as soon as I gave my life to Him?

I suggest you start reading His word daily and obeying his commands. Because one second after you die, it’ll be too late. And it won’t matter how many hot girls you slept with. You’ll just want the pain to end, but it never will.

[Pinayhunter]

He wasn’t just a good teacher, Winston. He was the Son of God, and he died for our sins. New age deception has blinded you from the truth.

If we’re all just little pieces of God experiencing Himself and Jesus isn’t who the Bible says he is, then why do NDE and OBE testimonies all point to Christianity? Why do demons flee upon hearing His name? Why did I stop having night terrors as soon as I gave my life to Him?

I suggest you start reading His word daily and obeying his commands. Because one second after you die, it’ll be too late. And it won’t matter how many hot girls you slept with. You’ll just want the pain to end, but it never will.