Re: Why does God have to be perfect, all good, and just? Why can't he be Good and Evil like everyone else?
Posted: August 18th, 2021, 7:00 pm
To Christians:
Key question for you: Do you actually believe that a "Just God" rules this world? Who would actually believe that? Isn't that 1000 percent IMPOSSIBLE?! Look at the world around you. There's way too much pain, suffering, injustice, death, and enslavement too. No sane person would believe that the ruler of this world must be just. Is simply does NOT FIT the data and reality. So isn't that the most insane and impossible claim in the world?! How could you have been hoodwinked into such an impossible claim? Think about it. Do you see any "Just God" running this world? Obviously not. If a "Just God" were running this world, then obviously the world would be just and fair, or at least mostly just and fair to some degree. That's simple logic, as obvious as 2+2=4. You can't escape that. Obviously the world is not just, and history shows that it never has been, in all of recorded history at least. So your claim is impossible and indefensible. There's no way around this. Simply put, your claim that a "Just God" is in charge of this world does NOT FIT the data at all. Not even a little. So why do you take it as dogma just because the church or some book or others told you so? That makes NO SENSE at all if you think about it!
Of course, the Christian traditional excuse has been to blame the state of the world on the Fall of Man in the Garden of Eden when Adam and Eve "sinned" by eating the forbidden fruit. But that doesn't hold water, sorry. It doesn't justify the pain, suffering, death, injustice, and enslavement in the world at all. Not one bit. The punishment does NOT fit the crime and is WAY out of proportion. Who would actually seriously believe that all the pain, suffering, death, injustice, and enslavement in this world is all due to two dumb people eating an apple/fruit off a bad tree? It's totally ludicrous. How can any sane buy that? At best that story is only metaphorical, not literally true. It's not only a cheap copout excuse, but the dumbest and most lame excuse in the world too. How can any mature adult buy that? If you think about it, it sounds totally insane and nonsensical and most importantly explains NOTHING. Nor does it justify anything at all. It sounds like a lame excuse to make you feel guilty and pin the blame for everything bad in the world on YOU, for something you didn't do, because your ancestors made a simple mistake. Really lame. What kind of a God would let the world go to hell just for one trivial mistake like that? No one would do that in real life, not even a bad father, let alone a "just God". This is totally indefensible and 100 percent impossible to justify. If you think about it clearly for a moment, you will realize this. I'm sure many Christians do realize this but they dare not think it further out of fear of course, because Christianity is a fear based religion using a carrot and stick to control you.
Therefore, if a "Just God" is not in charge of this world, then the only logical possibilities are:
1. God is both good and evil, good and bad, and everything in between, like Pantheism and Hinduism suggest. After all, if God is everything and everything is part of God, then that means the good and bad and everything in between are part of God too. The logic follows. And if God created everything or is everything, then if this world contains the good, the bad, and the ugly, then God must by definition embody all those traits too, because the creation is a reflection of the creator, which is logical and makes sense.
2. God is neither good or evil, but neutral.
3. God is not involved in the affairs of this world. He is a Deist God. This is what the founding fathers of America and 18th Century intellectuals believed. It's what Einstein believed too. This makes sense if you think about it. If we are atoms and molecules in the universe, then the creator cannot talk to us, just like we cannot talk to the 40 trillion or so cells in our body. We may be able to influence them with our thoughts, but we cannot have one to one communication or interaction with them. There's no way we could. Why would God ever have time to talk to everyone one on one even if he could? That's like expecting Santa Claus to visit every house in the world on the same night. It's implausible and expecting too much of God. If the 40 trillion cells in your body expected you to interact with them one to one wouldn't that be asking too much of you? lol
I'm not saying that there aren't higher forces that sometimes help us and intervene. There very well could be, even if Deism were true. But these would just be interdimensional beings, ascended higher beings, nonphysical entities, spirit guides, guardian angels, or even our own higher selves. Not the "one and only creator of the universe himself or herself". Also, even if they help or guide us sometimes, they seem to do so only on a personal basis, they do not intervene in world affairs or stop invading armies or governments from doing bad things. That's what history shows us. So they are limited and not all powerful it seems.
4. God is not all powerful, but very limited, even if he is a higher being. Same with multiple deities. This makes sense too if you think about it. Just because someone creates or designs something does not mean they have to all powerful. For example, Bill Gates created Microsoft and Steve Jobs created Apple, but it didn't make them all powerful or infallible. The logic simply doesn't follow. It's an assumption without basis that a creator must be all powerful or perfect or always right.
Conclusions and Important Points:
The Christian institution obviously invented this doctrine of a Just God because humans need something all powerful and perfect to worship, otherwise they could never respect a flawed deity who is no better than themselves. After that, everyone assumed it must be true because everyone else believed it. Humans are easy to dupe, brainwash, and condition after all.
Another reason people need to believe in a just God is that they need to believe in a just and fair universe. Because they cannot bear to live in an unjust cosmos. That's why many people are very victim-blaming, and assume that if something bad happens to you, you must have done something wrong to deserve it, whether you realize it or not. Just like how in the Book of Job, Job's friends assumed God must be just so all of Job's misfortunes must have been due to his wrongdoings and sins. New Agers are also guilty of this too, and tend to be very victim-blaming. They like to say "there are no victims" and assume that if something bad happens, your bad attitude or negative mindset, or bad karma from a past life, must have caused it. Like Christians, they need to believe in a just universe, even though they are more open minded, they still have that proclivity. They also need to believe that everything happens for a reason, and by that they mean "good reason" of course. So if something happens, it must be just and deserved. So this is a factor too.
The thing is, if something is true, it does not need to be repeated constantly. Only lies have to be constantly repeated and reinforced. For example, no one has to keep saying "tigers are bigger and stronger than rabbits" or "fire is hot and ice is cold" because those are obvious and self-evident. So why do Christians have to keep saying "God is just. God is good. God is in control. God will save us and deliver us." etc? Isn't it because deep down they have trouble believing it, because it doesn't fit reality, so they have to convince themselves of it by uttering it? If so, then that means they have no real basis. It's just a lie or fable they have to constantly reinforce in themselves, because it's not true or sensible to begin with. That bodes very bad for Christians. It means they have no reality or foundation for their beliefs. Think about it. If something is true and self-evident, it does not have to be declared or repeated constantly.
Before Christianity and Islam, the Abrahamic religions, took over much of the world by force, no one believed the gods were perfect. Ancient people always believed that the gods were full of virtues and vices and flaws too, just like everything else. Nor were they all powerful or infallible. Only Abrahamic religions, which are fear based and unnatural, claim that. The ancients made more sense because we do not see anything or anyone who is perfect in real life. So why should the gods, if they exist, be perfect? It's obviously just part of a man made control system type of religion that needs an all powerful deity to authorize its authority. If you think about it, there is no logical basis for it. Hence the notion that God is perfect and just has to be artificially programmed into you, it's not something you would otherwise believe naturally.
What this means is that even if Christianity is indeed a divine revelation of some sort, it is is still NOT perfect and NOT "the only way to the true God". It would still be one of many emanations or faces of God, one of millions. Just like the 33 million gods in Hinduism are all emanations and faces of Brahma. None of them being "the only true way". We may all be different faces or emanations of God too, each and every one of us. Think about this: The creator or co-creators of this world obviously love infinite diversity and variety, since there is so much of it in this world, so why would God be so narrow minded as to believe that only "one true way" exists? That contradicts everything in creation if you think about it, all the diversity we see around us. Hence that's another reason why this notion of there being "only one true way" makes no sense, if you think about it that is and stop believing the dogma you were fed with by others.
All the great wise spiritual gurus of the East agree, and say that if Jesus was an enlightened person or great spiritual teacher or highly evolved ascended master of high consciousness, or even a messiah or redeemer, that still would NOT mean that he was the only way to God or that all those who don't accept him will go to hell. For example, Deepak Chopra, Sadhguru, the Dalai Lama, Thich Nhat Hanh, etc. all accept Jesus as a great teacher or sage or even prophet. But that doesn't mean he's the only way to God. All wise people say that Jesus' teachings were corrupted and turned into a control system by the Catholic Church, once it became a system of political and social control. There's a consensus about that among all non-fundamentalist spiritual teachers. I agree with that too of course. Thus it's most likely true. So no, you are wrong to assume that Jesus was a fundamentalist evangelical Christian like the Billy Graham types are. No way. Christianity evolved over time through a long series and chain of events, just like any religion or culture does. It is not something set in stone from the beginning til now. No way jose. If you believe that you are crazy and wrong too.
I know that evangelical fundamentalist Christians agree that the Catholic Church corrupted Jesus' teachings. They are happy to admit that since they are anti-Catholic. However, where they go wrong is when they assume that their version of Christianity was the original pure unadultered version before the Catholic Church corrupted it. No way jose! Hell no! No objective historian believes that. Only fundamentalists do. There is no evidence at all that the original or early Christians believed what modern evangelical Christians believe today, which is made in the USA and didn't even become mainstream in America until 1910, hence is mostly a modern version of Christianity. In fact, the early Christians were never united. Since the beginning, they were always divided and split into factions, with some believing that Christians should follow Jewish laws and others like Paul saying no. So there was never any singular "true version" of Christianity to begin with. This is what evangelical Christians don't realize and can't accept, because their minds are hijacked and their dogmatic beliefs won't allow them to see the obvious.
Here's another kicker: Jesus himself was NOT a fundamentalist. Even if you go by the four canonical Gospels, you see that Jesus often repudiated fundamentlist interpretations of the Scriptures and Old Testament and disagreed with Moses' Law. In his debates with the Pharisees, he made that clear. Instead he interpreted scriptures in a more esoteric manner, not the literal manner that the fundamentalists of his day did. What this means is that Jesus would NOT have agreed with the fundamentalist versions of his teachings today that evangelicals espouse. This is HUGE and totally undermines the evangelical version of Christianity and makes them look silly, dumb, foolish, and obviously wrong too.
Why do Christians never address these questions head on? Because obviously they can't and they know it. These questions and points disprove their beliefs and since they do not want to change their beliefs, they prefer to ignore all these points and questions instead, and pretend that they don't exist. Because in the final analysis, a man's beliefs are his identity, and no one wants to change their beliefs unless they are dissatisfied with them and looking to change them. Hence if you disprove their beliefs, they will simply ignore your message and flush it out of their mind. That's why Christians always dodge tough questions like these and only answer the most easiest ones.
Obviously, in the end everyone chooses their religion based on what resonates with them and speaks to their soul the best. Either that, or they stick with the religion they grew up with. It's not about evidence, reason, or logic. That's fine and normal. But the problem is that this Christian notion of a "Just God" ruling the Earth simply does NOT FIT the data at all. It does not fit reality or the world you see around you. Hence it's not natural, and has to be artificially induced into you. You have to be brainwashed to believe it, in other words. That's what Christians don't get. Their beliefs are not natural. They would not hold them if some people or institution did not ingrain them with it. That's what they don't realize. Hence it is NOT absolute truth as they assume. Far from it.
Such a dogma about God being absolutely "Just" may be necessary to hold the Christian faith together, but it is not logical at all, nor does it have any basis or evidence to support it at all, if you think about it. It's simply a dogma that has been ingrained and brainwashed into you, because it's necessary for the religion to exist, not because it's true. How can you justify or rationalize something that goes against all the data and evidence and reality around you? Doesn't it require mind control for you to adopt something totally unreasonable and contrary to reality and without basis?
Key question for you: Do you actually believe that a "Just God" rules this world? Who would actually believe that? Isn't that 1000 percent IMPOSSIBLE?! Look at the world around you. There's way too much pain, suffering, injustice, death, and enslavement too. No sane person would believe that the ruler of this world must be just. Is simply does NOT FIT the data and reality. So isn't that the most insane and impossible claim in the world?! How could you have been hoodwinked into such an impossible claim? Think about it. Do you see any "Just God" running this world? Obviously not. If a "Just God" were running this world, then obviously the world would be just and fair, or at least mostly just and fair to some degree. That's simple logic, as obvious as 2+2=4. You can't escape that. Obviously the world is not just, and history shows that it never has been, in all of recorded history at least. So your claim is impossible and indefensible. There's no way around this. Simply put, your claim that a "Just God" is in charge of this world does NOT FIT the data at all. Not even a little. So why do you take it as dogma just because the church or some book or others told you so? That makes NO SENSE at all if you think about it!
Of course, the Christian traditional excuse has been to blame the state of the world on the Fall of Man in the Garden of Eden when Adam and Eve "sinned" by eating the forbidden fruit. But that doesn't hold water, sorry. It doesn't justify the pain, suffering, death, injustice, and enslavement in the world at all. Not one bit. The punishment does NOT fit the crime and is WAY out of proportion. Who would actually seriously believe that all the pain, suffering, death, injustice, and enslavement in this world is all due to two dumb people eating an apple/fruit off a bad tree? It's totally ludicrous. How can any sane buy that? At best that story is only metaphorical, not literally true. It's not only a cheap copout excuse, but the dumbest and most lame excuse in the world too. How can any mature adult buy that? If you think about it, it sounds totally insane and nonsensical and most importantly explains NOTHING. Nor does it justify anything at all. It sounds like a lame excuse to make you feel guilty and pin the blame for everything bad in the world on YOU, for something you didn't do, because your ancestors made a simple mistake. Really lame. What kind of a God would let the world go to hell just for one trivial mistake like that? No one would do that in real life, not even a bad father, let alone a "just God". This is totally indefensible and 100 percent impossible to justify. If you think about it clearly for a moment, you will realize this. I'm sure many Christians do realize this but they dare not think it further out of fear of course, because Christianity is a fear based religion using a carrot and stick to control you.
Therefore, if a "Just God" is not in charge of this world, then the only logical possibilities are:
1. God is both good and evil, good and bad, and everything in between, like Pantheism and Hinduism suggest. After all, if God is everything and everything is part of God, then that means the good and bad and everything in between are part of God too. The logic follows. And if God created everything or is everything, then if this world contains the good, the bad, and the ugly, then God must by definition embody all those traits too, because the creation is a reflection of the creator, which is logical and makes sense.
2. God is neither good or evil, but neutral.
3. God is not involved in the affairs of this world. He is a Deist God. This is what the founding fathers of America and 18th Century intellectuals believed. It's what Einstein believed too. This makes sense if you think about it. If we are atoms and molecules in the universe, then the creator cannot talk to us, just like we cannot talk to the 40 trillion or so cells in our body. We may be able to influence them with our thoughts, but we cannot have one to one communication or interaction with them. There's no way we could. Why would God ever have time to talk to everyone one on one even if he could? That's like expecting Santa Claus to visit every house in the world on the same night. It's implausible and expecting too much of God. If the 40 trillion cells in your body expected you to interact with them one to one wouldn't that be asking too much of you? lol
I'm not saying that there aren't higher forces that sometimes help us and intervene. There very well could be, even if Deism were true. But these would just be interdimensional beings, ascended higher beings, nonphysical entities, spirit guides, guardian angels, or even our own higher selves. Not the "one and only creator of the universe himself or herself". Also, even if they help or guide us sometimes, they seem to do so only on a personal basis, they do not intervene in world affairs or stop invading armies or governments from doing bad things. That's what history shows us. So they are limited and not all powerful it seems.
4. God is not all powerful, but very limited, even if he is a higher being. Same with multiple deities. This makes sense too if you think about it. Just because someone creates or designs something does not mean they have to all powerful. For example, Bill Gates created Microsoft and Steve Jobs created Apple, but it didn't make them all powerful or infallible. The logic simply doesn't follow. It's an assumption without basis that a creator must be all powerful or perfect or always right.
Conclusions and Important Points:
The Christian institution obviously invented this doctrine of a Just God because humans need something all powerful and perfect to worship, otherwise they could never respect a flawed deity who is no better than themselves. After that, everyone assumed it must be true because everyone else believed it. Humans are easy to dupe, brainwash, and condition after all.
Another reason people need to believe in a just God is that they need to believe in a just and fair universe. Because they cannot bear to live in an unjust cosmos. That's why many people are very victim-blaming, and assume that if something bad happens to you, you must have done something wrong to deserve it, whether you realize it or not. Just like how in the Book of Job, Job's friends assumed God must be just so all of Job's misfortunes must have been due to his wrongdoings and sins. New Agers are also guilty of this too, and tend to be very victim-blaming. They like to say "there are no victims" and assume that if something bad happens, your bad attitude or negative mindset, or bad karma from a past life, must have caused it. Like Christians, they need to believe in a just universe, even though they are more open minded, they still have that proclivity. They also need to believe that everything happens for a reason, and by that they mean "good reason" of course. So if something happens, it must be just and deserved. So this is a factor too.
The thing is, if something is true, it does not need to be repeated constantly. Only lies have to be constantly repeated and reinforced. For example, no one has to keep saying "tigers are bigger and stronger than rabbits" or "fire is hot and ice is cold" because those are obvious and self-evident. So why do Christians have to keep saying "God is just. God is good. God is in control. God will save us and deliver us." etc? Isn't it because deep down they have trouble believing it, because it doesn't fit reality, so they have to convince themselves of it by uttering it? If so, then that means they have no real basis. It's just a lie or fable they have to constantly reinforce in themselves, because it's not true or sensible to begin with. That bodes very bad for Christians. It means they have no reality or foundation for their beliefs. Think about it. If something is true and self-evident, it does not have to be declared or repeated constantly.
Before Christianity and Islam, the Abrahamic religions, took over much of the world by force, no one believed the gods were perfect. Ancient people always believed that the gods were full of virtues and vices and flaws too, just like everything else. Nor were they all powerful or infallible. Only Abrahamic religions, which are fear based and unnatural, claim that. The ancients made more sense because we do not see anything or anyone who is perfect in real life. So why should the gods, if they exist, be perfect? It's obviously just part of a man made control system type of religion that needs an all powerful deity to authorize its authority. If you think about it, there is no logical basis for it. Hence the notion that God is perfect and just has to be artificially programmed into you, it's not something you would otherwise believe naturally.
What this means is that even if Christianity is indeed a divine revelation of some sort, it is is still NOT perfect and NOT "the only way to the true God". It would still be one of many emanations or faces of God, one of millions. Just like the 33 million gods in Hinduism are all emanations and faces of Brahma. None of them being "the only true way". We may all be different faces or emanations of God too, each and every one of us. Think about this: The creator or co-creators of this world obviously love infinite diversity and variety, since there is so much of it in this world, so why would God be so narrow minded as to believe that only "one true way" exists? That contradicts everything in creation if you think about it, all the diversity we see around us. Hence that's another reason why this notion of there being "only one true way" makes no sense, if you think about it that is and stop believing the dogma you were fed with by others.
All the great wise spiritual gurus of the East agree, and say that if Jesus was an enlightened person or great spiritual teacher or highly evolved ascended master of high consciousness, or even a messiah or redeemer, that still would NOT mean that he was the only way to God or that all those who don't accept him will go to hell. For example, Deepak Chopra, Sadhguru, the Dalai Lama, Thich Nhat Hanh, etc. all accept Jesus as a great teacher or sage or even prophet. But that doesn't mean he's the only way to God. All wise people say that Jesus' teachings were corrupted and turned into a control system by the Catholic Church, once it became a system of political and social control. There's a consensus about that among all non-fundamentalist spiritual teachers. I agree with that too of course. Thus it's most likely true. So no, you are wrong to assume that Jesus was a fundamentalist evangelical Christian like the Billy Graham types are. No way. Christianity evolved over time through a long series and chain of events, just like any religion or culture does. It is not something set in stone from the beginning til now. No way jose. If you believe that you are crazy and wrong too.
I know that evangelical fundamentalist Christians agree that the Catholic Church corrupted Jesus' teachings. They are happy to admit that since they are anti-Catholic. However, where they go wrong is when they assume that their version of Christianity was the original pure unadultered version before the Catholic Church corrupted it. No way jose! Hell no! No objective historian believes that. Only fundamentalists do. There is no evidence at all that the original or early Christians believed what modern evangelical Christians believe today, which is made in the USA and didn't even become mainstream in America until 1910, hence is mostly a modern version of Christianity. In fact, the early Christians were never united. Since the beginning, they were always divided and split into factions, with some believing that Christians should follow Jewish laws and others like Paul saying no. So there was never any singular "true version" of Christianity to begin with. This is what evangelical Christians don't realize and can't accept, because their minds are hijacked and their dogmatic beliefs won't allow them to see the obvious.
Here's another kicker: Jesus himself was NOT a fundamentalist. Even if you go by the four canonical Gospels, you see that Jesus often repudiated fundamentlist interpretations of the Scriptures and Old Testament and disagreed with Moses' Law. In his debates with the Pharisees, he made that clear. Instead he interpreted scriptures in a more esoteric manner, not the literal manner that the fundamentalists of his day did. What this means is that Jesus would NOT have agreed with the fundamentalist versions of his teachings today that evangelicals espouse. This is HUGE and totally undermines the evangelical version of Christianity and makes them look silly, dumb, foolish, and obviously wrong too.
Why do Christians never address these questions head on? Because obviously they can't and they know it. These questions and points disprove their beliefs and since they do not want to change their beliefs, they prefer to ignore all these points and questions instead, and pretend that they don't exist. Because in the final analysis, a man's beliefs are his identity, and no one wants to change their beliefs unless they are dissatisfied with them and looking to change them. Hence if you disprove their beliefs, they will simply ignore your message and flush it out of their mind. That's why Christians always dodge tough questions like these and only answer the most easiest ones.
Obviously, in the end everyone chooses their religion based on what resonates with them and speaks to their soul the best. Either that, or they stick with the religion they grew up with. It's not about evidence, reason, or logic. That's fine and normal. But the problem is that this Christian notion of a "Just God" ruling the Earth simply does NOT FIT the data at all. It does not fit reality or the world you see around you. Hence it's not natural, and has to be artificially induced into you. You have to be brainwashed to believe it, in other words. That's what Christians don't get. Their beliefs are not natural. They would not hold them if some people or institution did not ingrain them with it. That's what they don't realize. Hence it is NOT absolute truth as they assume. Far from it.
Such a dogma about God being absolutely "Just" may be necessary to hold the Christian faith together, but it is not logical at all, nor does it have any basis or evidence to support it at all, if you think about it. It's simply a dogma that has been ingrained and brainwashed into you, because it's necessary for the religion to exist, not because it's true. How can you justify or rationalize something that goes against all the data and evidence and reality around you? Doesn't it require mind control for you to adopt something totally unreasonable and contrary to reality and without basis?