Momopi, do you befriend these types of Asian Americans?

[Winston]

Momopi,
Most Asian Americans that I know are quiet, humble, have few opinions, dutiful, and major in something like Electrical Engineering, like that other Winston Wu I posted here long ago.

They are nice but have no independent thoughts.

Do you hang out much with such types? Do you have anything in common with them? Are there many of them among your friends?

[momopi]

Momopi,
Most Asian Americans that I know are quiet, humble, have few opinions, dutiful, and major in something like Electrical Engineering, like that other Winston Wu I posted here long ago.

They are nice but have no independent thoughts.

Do you hang out much with such types? Do you have anything in common with them? Are there many of them among your friends?

I only had 1 EE major Taiwanese guy friend from Cal Tech and haven't spoke to him in years. Most of my Asian friends from the old days are anime otaku's from the fansubbing era, the type you'd find at Anime conventions dressed as anime or video game characters. The more recent Asian guy friends are in the medical, music, and legal profession and I have little in common with them except for a passion in culinary arts. We have a group that meets every couple of weeks to dine at nice restaurants, or cook at someone's kitchen.

My 3 closest male Asian friends are:

1. Taiwanese, math major, quiet but not a humble person inside (aggressive type). Total womenizer before he got married. I'm the godfather of his kid, you've meet him in person before. He's the one who pulled my head out of my arse 14 years ago to get serious about my career and financial affairs.

2. Vietnamese, chemistry major. Quiet and humble, fits the passive Asian stereotype very well. I used to stay up all night working on anime subtitle with him 10 years ago. Married a young intern girl from work. I just drove back from Vegas with him today.

3. Burmese, majored in civil engineering and works on the freeways supervising field work. Not quiet or humble, has explosive temper. I went to high school with him and his father treated me like a son. You can probably compare him to the loud construction worker type.


Among my local Asian guy friends, I'm the rare Business major. Many of my local Asian female friends (plus a few Asian guy friends) are music majors and some are really moody. You've meet one last year in Taichung.

[Winston]

So you don't get along with the typical Asian American who becomes a doctor or engineer and has no personality or independent thoughts either? You've met a lot of them right? Aren't there any in your family too?

[momopi]

Winston, I spent years hanging out with people like these:



Prior to that I was into Renaissance Fair with people like these:



And before that I was a pen and pencil RPG gamer like these guys:




I am "geek". When you're in a convention with 43,000 other geeks, you're a "typical geek". There's nothing special about it.




Except for my grandfather (dad's side), there are no doctors or engineers in my family. My parents never went to college (they went to trade school) and are financially inept. I have to support them financially.

My grandfather lived in Manchuria in the first half of 20th century and attended medical school in Japan. None of his sons were academically inclined. My father was a basketball jock and hanged out with the "Four Seas" triads in Taiwan (they were basketball fans) before joining the ROCAF (air force). His 2nd eldest brother was an erhu player. If anyone here doesn't know what an erhu is:

Momopi,
Most Asian Americans that I know are quiet, humble, have few opinions, dutiful, and major in something like Electrical Engineering, like that other Winston Wu I posted here long ago.
They are nice but have no independent thoughts.
Do you hang out much with such types? Do you have anything in common with them? Are there many of them among your friends?

Also, the number of Asians who majored in EE is a very small minority. Overall, only about half of the Asian Americans will earn a 4-year college degree. You can read more detailed stats here:

http://www.asian-nation.org/demographics.shtml


An Asian American professional might maintain a very respectful image, but there's the other side that most people don't get to see, such as the doctors and dentists I know who flirt and string several women at the same time, and party it up at Jurassic/Indian until 1am and goes home with a new girl. For those who don't live in LA, those are Taiwanese pubs (here in LA):

[Winston]

Wow it sounds like your family is very different than mine.

But my family and its connections are very common for Taiwanese, I'm told. Surely you've met many of them? Come on now.

Most Asian Americans do not fit the description you speak of.

How do you pick up girls at those Taiwanese pubs you mentioned? What if you and I went in and claimed to be doctors or dentists? Would that create automatic attraction from the girls there? The photos you showed are of waitresses, not necessarily girls you can pick up.

[momopi]

Wow it sounds like your family is very different than mine.
But my family and its connections are very common for Taiwanese, I'm told. Surely you've met many of them? Come on now.
Most Asian Americans do not fit the description you speak of.

Let's look at the "very common" perception.

As I recall your family and extended family (that you or I am aware of?) doesn't stay up late or eat after a certain time at night. But in Chayi there's Wenhua night market:



I've been to night markets in Taipei, Keelung, Taichung, and Kaohsiung. I have not been to Wenhua night market in Chayi. From its description, the night market has "thousands of vendors" selling various cusine, such as fountain chicken rice, ku-jing-chen flat noodle soup, preserved cabbage and shrimp egg, and so on. The night market is located at the fountain traffic circle on Jungshan Rd and its nearby areas.

Since your parents live there, they probably know the night market better. I'm just going by the descriptions. Obviously to support a night market with thousands of vendors, you need to have people who stay out late and eat out late. So this demonstrates that there is a significantly large market segment to sustain the business.


Now, let's look at education. As I've stated previously, only a very small % of Asian Americans become doctors or get EE degrees. For both Asian Americans and US-Born Asian Americans, only 50% will attain 4-year college degrees. There is a significantly (very) large Asian American population in America who are blue collar workers. You'll find them working in Chinese restaurants, supermarkets, whole sellers, import/export, and so on.

One of my Taiwanese friends from my high school district (different HS but in same district) never went to college. He got married young, worked in a restaurant, and later opened his own restaurant. Unfortunately he chain-smoked and drank a lot of alcohol, plus he worked as the chef (high stress job). He had a heart attack at age 39 last year and died. We could go into how he's the exception, but it doesn't change how he lived his life.

My Burmese guy friend got married on Saturday (the one I mentioned earlier in this thread). I was his best man and his bride is a Vietnamese single mother. Her son's GF from school is South American. The wife doesn't have a 4-year college degree, she went to culinary school. That's another "non-conforming" to the stereotype.

How do you pick up girls at those Taiwanese pubs you mentioned? What if you and I went in and claimed to be doctors or dentists? Would that create automatic attraction from the girls there? The photos you showed are of waitresses, not necessarily girls you can pick up.

Try joining a Taiwanese American social organization first:
http://tacl.org/classic/tap/index.html
http://tacl.org/

[FuzzX]

lol was just at a d&d convention... all manginas there... all lame. I paid 10 bucks to get in and I couldn't sit with them for more than 3 hours... you could tell 99% of the con were virgins and almost all of them were 40+ (Age not Charisma)
The only guy who had clearly had sex was with his wife and kid.

what a sad sight... immediate 10D6 lighting bolt, no saving throws!

[momopi]

lol was just at a d&d convention... all manginas there... all lame. I paid 10 bucks to get in and I couldn't sit with them for more than 3 hours... you could tell 99% of the con were virgins and almost all of them were 40+ (Age not Charisma)
The only guy who had clearly had sex was with his wife and kid.

what a sad sight... immediate 10D6 lighting bolt, no saving throws!

I recall when I first got into D&D, it was mostly an all male affair. Then suddenly gaming and anime fandom went mainstream and it exploded from there. When I was into MMO's, I was surprised to find competitive GvG MMORPG's like AoC and Shadowbane had significant female presence in certain guilds. The biggest Chinese SB guild was lead by "yljz" during day time in Asia (when they battled with US players in NA evening time) and she even posted her wedding photos, hehehe.


Fanservice:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzVFyWNzjtE

[FuzzX]

Were those girls Chinese?

I have no idea what I just watched but it reminds me of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjZXLXMi0TQ

Here's a bit of D&D humour that none of the D&D nerds seem to get:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 7821122670#

8 Bit D&D:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHdXG2gV01k

Anime Fan Sub Parody:
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/484273

MMORPG web TV show... its great:
http://www.watchtheguild.com/

[Winston]

Momopi,
That photo you showed of Taiwan was not a night market. It was a typical street that cars can drive through. Night market streets are more narrow than that and not situated in wide open roads.

There is one night market in Chiayi that I know of and been to several times. But it does not have thousands of vendors. More like maybe a hundred. It is not big compared to the ones in Taipei.

But anyhow, there is no logical evidence to suggest that the majority of Taiwanese go out to night markets regularly. Sure some do, but your stats don't demonstrate a majority. I'm not sure if you were implying that most TW people do or not.

Regardless of stats, almost every Asian American I know is a doctor or engineer. How can that be? Either that, or they work in some business office occupation like accounting or something involving numbers, or are computer programmers. It's hard for me to believe that you do not notice this commonality. Other TW Americans notice it too as though it were common knowledge that TW Americans aspire to become doctors and engineers as the ideal career.

Are you sure you're not going into one of your "denying the obvious just to play devil's advocate" modes again?

Yes my family and their connections are very square, VERY square. They sleep early and follow routines very strictly.

So it's ironic that someone like me, whom some describe as "the most atypical Asian they've ever met" would come from the most square family you can imagine. Very ironic. It's like I'm the epitome of all their squareness and suppression of anything that's not square unleashed. lol. It's funny how a family with no independent thoughts can produce someone who thinks outside the box on almost every issue.

Anyhow, I do not think that most TW people even go out at night, simply cause there is not that much to do at night, compared to other big cities around the world at least.

You met one of my dad's close friends in LA when you picked me up at their nice suburban home. One of his sons is also a doctor, the kind that reads X Rays, called radiologist or something I think. His other son and daughter are not though. Were they not typical Taiwanese American, in your book?

[momopi]

1. See the following links:

Wenhua Road Night Market photos:
http://eng.taiwan.net.tw/m1.aspx?sNo=0002117&id=474

Look under "South Taiwan Tourist Night Makrets", first entry "Wenhua Night Market" and read the description:
http://eng.taiwan.net.tw/m1.aspx?sNo=0002040

As I've stated previously, I've not been to Wenhua night market in Chayi. I'm citing descriptions provided by Taiwan's Tourism Bureau's web site. Perhaps your relatives in Chayi could provide us with better information on the night market's size.


2. A market segment does not have to be the majority. A market segment is a sub-set of a market made up of people sharing one or more characteristics, which causes them to demand certain products or services.

Night Markets and eating out late is part of Asian culture. You'll find them in Taiwan, HK, SG, Malaysia, etc. Restaurants that cater to late night dinning sometimes advertise "宵夜" (Shao Ye). Ask your father to explain.

Business is very simple, no profit = no financial incentive. The size of the night market is relative to the market segment. Thus, the night markets in urban areas with high density (or located next to a university) tends to be bigger.


3.

Regardless of stats, almost every Asian American I know is a doctor or engineer. How can that be? Either that, or they work in some business office occupation like accounting or something involving numbers, or are computer programmers. It's hard for me to believe that you do not notice this commonality. Other TW Americans notice it too as though it were common knowledge that TW Americans aspire to become doctors and engineers as the ideal career.

This is the Chinese Consumer Yellow Pages of Southern California:



Within this yellow pages book, you'll find some 2,600 pages of Chinese and Taiwanese owned businesses in Southern California. Real estate agents, music teachers, restaurant supply stores, contractors, tree trimmers, house cleaners, baby sitters, shoe importers, cell phone stores, and so on and so on.

I have 9 cousins in North America and none of them are doctors, engineers, computer programmers, or accountants. My aunt in S.F. insisted that her son study music, so he's now attending Colburn.

My restaurant dinning social group is mostly doctors and lawyers. But this group of friends regularly go to high-end restaurants and spend a lot of money on dinner, so it's not like many blue collar Asian American workers could afford to join. When I spend $30 on a bottle of wine, I have to think about it. I have a friend who wouldn't blink twice buying $300 bottle. He's a Taiwanese doctor and his wife is a Korean lawyer (!). He has a wine cellar at his house that's the envy of everyone.


4. Radiologist doctors are one of the highest paying ($400k+) medical professions:
http://healthcareers.about.com/od/compe ... octors.htm
http://healthcareers.about.com/od/physi ... logist.htm

I've heard that some hospitals are now sending X-Rays to India to save money, but am uncertain how this may impact the profession and its pay scale in the US.

[Winston]

Momopi,
Ok I think I understand the confusion now.

The photo you posted is a different night market than what I was thinking of. I was thinking of the night market next to the Carrefour, which has a maze of vendors. The one in your picture is actually a row of vendors and clothes situated on one street extending from the city center of Chiayi. It's crowded at night, yeah, but that street is only a few blocks long. It's not that big either. I didn't even know it was a night market, I just thought it was a row of shops open at night. lol.

Anyhow, I've been to it and to the one next to Carrefour, so I have a good idea of their size. Neither are big at all compared to the Taipei ones of course. You can walk through both in a few minutes.

So basically I guess there are two night markets in Chiayi.

So how come every Taiwanese family that my family knows has at least one doctor or engineer in them? How do you explain that?

[momopi]

So how come every Taiwanese family that my family knows has at least one doctor or engineer in them? How do you explain that?

That's not the same as saying "most Asian Americans" major in EE or something similar (post #1 in thread). I could say that at least one person in my family is a doctor too, since my grandfather was a Japanese educated (Kyoto Imperial) doctor.

I think many Asian families hope that they'd have at least one academically inclined child, who they can invest in education to become a doctor or something prestigious. On my mother's side of family, it was made clear that if I had the ability, my aunts and uncles would've funded my education in med school. To their disappointment, none of the ~11 grand children on my mother's side of family (in TW and USA) were academically gifted enough to become a doctor. Same with the grandchildren on my father's side of family. There are only 2 grandchildren (my generation) who attended grad school, myself and another cousin who's working on his master's in music theory.

The largest night markets aren't necessarily the best. IMO Shilin night market's food is mediocre. I prefer Shida, Raohe, and Miaokou (Keelung) for food.

Asian immigrants in the US have tried to replicate the outdoor hawker scene with mixed success. Wat Thai Temple in North Hollywood was pretty good before it got shut down for sanitary issues. There's another Indonesian outdoor hawker gathering in Durate on Saturdays.