What guys don't understand about fear of approaching women

[ErikHeaven]

Winston is right of course once again. I tend to believe that if you fit into certain types you will meet just about anybody you please anywhere you want. For example i think the white guy who is skinny and has the Justin Bieber Look will get women just about anywhere. Especially in asian countries where Some women might worship white men. And if you do not have that look you will most certainly get the closed off response.
I will add to what the brother on here said i have talked to some women who looked closed off and unapproachable only to find out that they were thinking hard about their problems, losing their house, bills etc.
I do agree that sometimes it it all about your energy. What you put out you get back in return. I have a great book that i recommend to you all The Power of Your Subconcious Mind by Dr Joseph Murphy. Its a classic timeless book explaining the powers of your mind.
I get hit on alot because i choose to believe that i can instead of i cant.

[Sexter]

Lovesong I disagree w/ some of your points, i agree with some

Look at the pathetic lot of guys who are surrounding them or leering at them.

VERY TRUE. In the USA, a lot of guys supplicate (kiss ass/buy her dinner/nice guy/doormat) to women(especially to the beautiful women). Also, a lot of beautiful women get a lot of "looks" and get hit on a lot the wrong way (especially at bigger cities)

That's why the women are so closed off, b/c they get hit on so much(the wrong way)
most guys supplicate or kiss ass, which means you lose your power(unless you are very good looking or rich)

Now, what's the key?? MY ENERGY!

this is what they call "state". The biggest fallacy about "energy" or "state" is that, it doesn't always work. Some nights you are not in state, other nights you are. Yes, being in the right mood/energy will determine whether or not you get rejected/not, you can't always have good energy.

... even if you are feeling confident/in-state, that doesn't mean you will f**k the girl. I've had good energy in the past and i've gotten rejected before... Or a woman would chit chat with me then eventually leave and say (nice to meet you). That doesn't necessarily lead to sex. EVEN IF I GET A GIRLS NUMBER, most women(especially the beautiful ones) flake out on me.

Oh, by the way, I'm asian, not tall at all, so don't give me that lame excuse of race or looks. Change your life and perspective now! Otherwise, you really are living a sad existence.

again, it depends what kind of women you approach, and how desirable they are. A 22 year old blonde hair attractive thin woman probably has a shitload of options, and even if you have a fun/playful vibe, if she sees you as "not her type" she will just be polite and eventually dismiss you. However, a woman who has less options, average looking, and havn't had dick in a long time will probably give you a chance.

[Rock]

What guys don't understand about the fear of approaching women

What many guys, especially the ones involved in the PUA (Pick Up Artist) movement, don't understand about the fear of approaching women is that the reason they are afraid is not because they lack guts. It's because they can sense that the girls they want to meet do NOT want to be approached, so that to do so would be rude and violating. They subconsciously sense the "do not approach me" shield around them.

You see, everyone has body language and vibes. We can all sense them, even if we deny that vibes exist as a form of energy. There is a big difference between a girl who is approachable vs. one who is not. But this difference can only be described in words to a certain point. It is mostly felt and sensed by one's natural instincts. You simply "just know", even without observative physical signs or evidence. Even left-brained guys who deny that vibes and auras exist as a form of actual energy can instinctually sense others' vibes, despite their denial.

To try to put into words, an approachable girl looks at ease, relaxed, open and friendly. It's in her face, body language and aura too. She makes eye contact with others, smiles back at people, and has an open body posture. An unapproachable girl, on the other hand, has a closed narrow vibe and look on her face. She is uptight, serious, focused, does not make eye contact with others, and has a "don't bother me" look on her face. When you try to muster the courage to talk to her, you will feel a cold chill and an alarm will go off in you that says, "DO NOT! NOT ALLOWED! INAPPROPRIATE!" It has nothing to do with guts or bravery at all. And even the top PUA gurus can do nothing about it, despite their bogus claims. Guaranteed.

An adept "people reader" can spot these differences consciously, while others merely feel them subconsciously. Either way, one simply knows, even in the absence of physical signs.

So for example, say I'm in the Philippines where there is a very open culture. There, many girls are approachable and easy to chat with, without being introduced by a mutual friend. I could easily meet girls in public, flirt with them and get their numbers. It will look very relaxed and natural. To inexperienced others, it may look like I am bold and have guts. Yet when I fly to Japan, the opposite will happen. I will sense that the girls are unapproachable and are NOT comfortable talking to strangers, even of their own race.

Now this is not my imagination. In Japanese culture, people do not talk to strangers unless they are properly introduced by mutual friends, or it is for business-related purposes. It has nothing to do with you or whether they like you. It is merely a basic part of their culture. Almost everyone conforms to it. You can feel it in their "collective vibes" even. If you try, you will sense an inner alarm that says "NOT ALLOWED! FORBIDDEN! TOTALLY INAPPROPRIATE!" It would feel like you were about to commit a cardinal sin and violation. You just know this.

In this scenario, it won't matter if you are the biggest daredevil in the world, or one of the top PUA gurus (e.g. David DeAngelo, Ross Jeffries, Mystery, etc.). It won't make a difference. Despite their bogus claims, if put to the test in this situation, the PUA gurus will undoubtedly fail. I can guarantee that.

If something is inappropriate, you just know it. You don't have to be told or given physical signs. And it's not your imagination either. You simply know, even if you are not good at reading others or have poor people skills.

What this means is that American guys are not really gutless, as the PUA movement claims. Not at all. They simply live in a culture where females are paranoid, not approachable, and don't like talking to strangers. To violate this is inappropriate, so most guys do not dare try.

Yet American pop culture maintains this myth that girls are very open and friendly in America, so that anyone who has trouble meeting or dating girls must have a problem - they are either too shy, nerdy, lack social skills or technique. So these guys who are afraid to approach girls, falsely assume, based on this myth, that they must be lacking guts or "technique" when in reality it isn't that at all. The girls they like simply don't want to be approached or do not find the guys to be their type, so they put out that vibe to them. The unwanted guy then senses this "reject shield" and misinteprets it as coming from their own fears.

This misconception is then capitalized on by the PUA movement and their gurus, who have a vested financial interest in selling expensive seminars and courses to these "average frustrated chumps (AFC's)" as they put it, to help them overcome their fears, which further perpetuates this myth. But it ends up being just a bunch of pep talk with little or no result.

In reality, it is extremely rare to change the mind of a girl who doesn't want to meet you by using some kind of "PUA technique", and even in such cases, the girl is likely to be mentally unstable or erratic.

Anyone can make bogus claims or brag. But to prove them is another matter. Reality is reality. And bogus claims usually fail when put to the test. I've seen it time and time again. A lot of guys who claim they can pick up girls in places where they are not approachable, end up chickening out or making excuses when put to the actual test. Even if it were possible, it would happen occasionally, not on an everyday anytime basis.

Of course, your looks matter. Some girls only want to be approached by guys that are "their type". These girls are "conditionally approachable" and you can also recognize them by their "don't approach me unless you're hot" vibe as well.

Now, suppose you are a very good looking white guy in Japan. In that case, yes a certain percentage of girls will be open to cold approaches from you. But we are talking a minority percentage here, not the majority. Most girls will still not be willing to be approached by you in public, even if they think you are very attractive. They are simply way too uncomfortable with it. Also, most Japanese girls will not date seriously outside their race, even if they have a curiosity toward white guys. You can find a girlfriend of course, or date several girls at once, from the percentage of girls who will be open to you. But you still would not be able to chat up any girl you want anywhere you want. No way. Not in Japan. And whether the girls interested in you will be the same ones you are interested in, is another matter.

So the lesson here is that approachability of women depends on the situation, location, culture and type of woman. It's not about guts or technique. You simply have to utilize those factors to the best of your advantage.

Now if you are in a culture where it is not appropriate to approach girls coldly, you can still meet them through introductions, parties or other social events. Those would be the socially acceptable venues in that case. But at that point, you would have to evaluate your desirability and eligibility to the females there. You’d have to gauge whether you are seen by a reasonable percentage of females there as the type they would be willing to date.

Here is why this matters:

Take the example of a typical Asian male in America who is not seen as “dating material� by over 99 percent of white females there. In that case, it wouldn’t matter whether this average Asian male goes out and meets many white girls at social events, parties, swing dance lessons, cooking classes, through mutual friends, etc. for he is simply NOT their type. Even most unattractive white females will reject him. The best he could do is engage them in polite casual chit chat. But that would be the limit. Any attempt at a date or hint of it, and they would blow him off immediately. In such a case, he is in a ZERO SUM game, for his attempt of using socially acceptable venues to meet women will simply be an exercise in futility (unless a miracle happens). Therefore, if you are not seen as a potential suitor by the females you are attracted to, it will not help you to have opportunities to meet them – whether through introductions, social events or cold approaches – for they simply will not be interested in you in that way.

Now in the earlier scenario of the good looking white guy in Japan, the results would be different. In his case, since a certain percentage of Japanese females will undoubtedly be interested in him, all he has to do is meet them through socially acceptable channels - at social events, parties or through introductions - and statistically he is eventually guaranteed to find some Japanese females who will be interested in him. Thus he would have a valid chance of getting results through these venues.

So you see, your desirability and eligibility is another important consideration you would have to factor in.

This will matter even if you are in a culture where the women are very approachable. For example, if the typical Asian male above goes to Russia, where the females are VERY approachable and have no hang ups about talking to strangers or being “hit on� by guys (which is socially acceptable in Russian culture) the same factor will apply. If he goes to Moscow, in Western Russia, where the Russian women are very racist toward Asian men and see them as sexually undesirable, he may be able to meet hundreds of girls easily by approaching them randomly in public. But they will usually end up using him for culture/language exchange and getting free dinners off him, or worse, milking him for cash and gifts. They will not take him seriously and will not be intimate with him beyond a certain point (if you know what I mean). However, if he were to go to Siberia or any part of Eastern Russia, where the Russian women are more pro-Asian (being closer to Asia geographically), his chances would be upped considerably. His race would not go against him, and far more females would take him seriously as a potential mate.

So, even in a super approachable culture like Russia, his desirability factor will ultimately determine his success.

There are always exceptions of course, but that’s how it generally is.

In any case, it doesn't hurt to try to develop your people reading skills, so you can size up people and situations quickly and accurately. If you are strongly left brained or practical, focus on utilizing the skills of your right brain so that you can function with whole brain holistic thinking. Being able to connect the dots and understand others requires the abilities of your right brain, not just your left. So don't neglect it.

That is my suggestion. Good luck!

Some of my biggest regrets in life were girls I really wanted to know and came close to approaching but never did because their "body language" was either cold and closed or neutral. On the other hand, some of the best experiences in my life were a result of cold approaches to similar types of girls who miraculously opened the door a bit, gave me a number, etc. Some of those girls even told me that most guys are afraid of them because they look difficult or tough. Others told me that they usually don't talk to strangers but I seemed very sincere, etc.

If you can honestly say to yourself that you could be a decent catch to the girl in question (ie you truly believe you are qualified to be with her romantically), then give it your best shot. If you do this 20 or so times and get nothing but flat rejections, then yes, its time to go back to the drawing board, change countries, etc. If you are suffering such a rejection rate and are in Asia or Latin America, even tough countries like Japan, then your perception of self is probably way-off. I mean, if she's out of your league, you're usually gonna get rejected. And if you are aware of that, your own vibe will lack confidence and repel her. You won't feel qualified and it will show. Likewise, if you approach 20 or more girls and get nothing but flat rejections, your confidence will plummet and you will start to feel unqualified (beneath your target). It will become a vicious cycle. No need to approach 5,000 girls if you get nowhere with a couple dozen.

Girls who are open and easy will be approached and chatted-up everyday if they are decent looking or better. So having this type of girlfriend is risky. On the other hand, if manage to break through the ice-shield of a cold and aloof one and eventually become her boyfriend, you will probably feel more secure in your relationship with her.

[BellaRuth]

When is the last time a woman in the US, UK or Canda flirted with you? Or started a conversation with you? Probably never!

Whoa there! Women do flirt here (UK). I got my own boyfriend by going after him, and if any of my friends see a man they like, they sure let him know. I would have no problem at all flirting with a stranger if I liked him. British men aren't the most forward of people when it comes to romance, so if you want one, you need to make it extremely obvious you want him, or you'll be waiting forever (or you'll see him with another girl the week after who got there first).

Don't believe everything you read about a country if you haven't actually lived there. Each country has its own social dynamics.

A 22 year old blonde hair attractive thin woman probably has a shitload of options

Not from experience and I pretty much fit the above description.

These girls don't necessarily have decent men going after them. They just usually attract men with massive egos who want a trophy on their arm. If you are a good man who has a lot to offer, always go for it. You'll be a refreshing change from the posers.

I think men need to stop thinking about girls as these peculiar creatures with codes to crack. Just talk to them as people. Be friendly, don't think you have to strut around and make them go 'ooh'. It will probably give you more results to be simply friendly than going in there trying to act confident and powerful and just coming off as an egotistical narcissus. If a man like that came up to me I wouldn't be interested, I'd think he loved himself too much. I'd want someone chilled out who I can actually see myself talking to and spending time with. Is that so ground-breaking?

On the original topic: I think this is largely a symptom of globalisation. People know each other less and don't want the sense of community, they are not used to it and find it strange. I'll never forget standing at a bus station once in my old rural, tourist town in the summer with a friend. I was in my late teens. I heard a boy about my age behind me talk with a particular city accent. Immediately I turned and said, "oh! Are you from ...?" with a big smile. He looked at me like I was a piece of shit. I faltered a bit and said... "Your accent. My family's from there." He scoffed and turned away. I couldn't believe it. I was expecting him to be friendly, ask what area my family was from, and how I moved from there. But I was used to a different kind of people. City people are not used to the community spirit, they have their lives plugged into the media instead of real people. And now the entire world becomes one big city, people are more isolated and lacking in social skills. They think talking to strangers is weird, they don't see the need for friendship other than another number on their Facebook list or another face in a photo of a night out. It's sad.

[Sexter]

Whoa there! Women do flirt here (UK). I got my own boyfriend by going after him,

i've approached roughly 5,000 women in my life, not one girl flirted with me. I still had to initiate every thing. I think you are mistaken UK to the United States. The only dudes that get flirted on by women are usually tall good looking white guys. i'm 5 foot 5 Filipino american and i've never gotten hit on by an attractive female. PS. if I were to go to the UK, i probably won't get hit on either b/c asian men are usually last on the preference scale on caucasian women.

Not from experience and I pretty much fit the above description.

it depends where you live. A 9 or a 10 who lives in a major city DOES GET HIT ON A LOT. She also has a bunch of guys getting at her. It depends where you live but for the most part, most 9s and 10s Have plenty of options in america. (also, get hit on a lot, on facebook, in real life, at malls, etc)

These girls don't necessarily have decent men going after them. They just usually attract men with massive egos who want a trophy on their arm.

your being rational. Although women dislike men with egos, men with egos tend to have confidence or success for them to have that ego. THUS, attracts the woman. Women are attracted to men in an emotional level, not in a rational level. I have a big ego, and i've attracted many women b/c I can stimulate their emotions by being confident.

On the original topic: I think this is largely a symptom of globalisation.

no it's not globalization, it's more

1. social conditioning (most women from the USA are conditioned to view "strange men" as creepers, serial killers, trouble makers)
2. feminism (thinking women are equal to that of a man, thus they don't need men LESS and developed a superior ego to be bitchy/cold to men)
3. western country (most women have jobs now, go to decent colleges, and have more access to $, thus, we are thought think more in an independent western way, which makes women independent of men)

it's not globalization Bella, i know this for a fact b/c I've experienced it myself.

[Fenix]

@Sexter

I am 5'9, black and I consider myself good looking and white, Latina, Asian women hit on me all of the time. White women hit on me the most. I met a Canadian/Iranian chick on Saturday night and we are still talking now.

Some women take longer to warm up than others like this one Latina at this store I go to all of the time. She always looks gloomy and one day she started to talk to me and she was so nice. I wanted to ask for her number the next time she was at the store, but I never saw her again. Just because women look "cold" doesn't mean they are. I talked to some women that were "cold" in appearance but she warmed up pretty quickly!

Anyway, I wouldn't say "tall good looking white guys" get flirted on. I haven't asked for a girls number since 2001. I am not an asshole, I am not a thug...I am myself and I am friendly. I also have a sense of humor too so that helps.

Last thing: My dad is 5'6 and he has never had trouble with women. He has a great personality and has a great sense of humor. He doesn't have an ego, act like a thug, etc. He is short.

Do you really think because you are Filipino that women don't like you or your height? I try not to post on this forum, but I had to say something here.

[BellaRuth]

The only dudes that get flirted on by women are usually tall good looking white guys. i'm 5 foot 5 Filipino american and i've never gotten hit on by an attractive female. PS. if I were to go to the UK, i probably won't get hit on either b/c asian men are usually last on the preference scale on caucasian women.

My boyfriend is about 5ft 8, if I'm being generous, which is almost my height, and he isn't white. My sister has a Chinese boyfriend. My other sister is married to a man who is about 5ft 8 or less. My sisters are very beautiful and are not just 'settling' for whatever they can get. They love and are attracted to these men. Height is not an important factor. These preferences are not universal even amongst 'Anglo' countries. Don't think you won't get a girl because you are a short Asian.

Asian (we call them Chinese, Japanese, etc., 'Asian' in British English = Pakistani, Bangladeshi) are not undesirable at all. They are not a particularly common group here so I guess are still viewed as exotic, with connotations of karate, Buddhism, wisdom- the romantised Asia.

your being rational. Although women dislike men with egos, men with egos tend to have confidence or success for them to have that ego. THUS, attracts the woman. Women are attracted to men in an emotional level, not in a rational level. I have a big ego, and i've attracted many women b/c I can stimulate their emotions by being confident.

I'm only being rational cos I have a brain. I would rather spend my time with an interesting, nice man whom I actually like the company of, rather than a confident ego-on-a-stick. But perhaps these are cultural differences as America does celebrate success, confidence, etc. more than any other place on Earth. I'd personally rather be with someone shy than someone arrogant - a hundred times over - as long as the man was good to be around. Globally, a big ego =/= you get the girl.

On the original topic: I think this is largely a symptom of globalisation.

no it's not globalization, it's more

1. social conditioning (most women from the USA are conditioned to view "strange men" as creepers, serial killers, trouble makers)
2. feminism (thinking women are equal to that of a man, thus they don't need men LESS and developed a superior ego to be bitchy/cold to men)
3. western country (most women have jobs now, go to decent colleges, and have more access to $, thus, we are thought think more in an independent western way, which makes women independent of men)

it's not globalization Bella, i know this for a fact b/c I've experienced it myself.

Ok. Though maybe in other countries it can be a symptom of globalisation/Americanisation.

I've heard the news in America is very scaremongering, making people think their country is unsafe. This would breed paranoia of strangers and distrust of those in other groups- genders, races, etc.

Women might be independent of men now but it doesn't mean they don't love or want men. Very few women in Europe (which are all Western countries, feminised) are dependent on men nowadays yet they still want a man in their life and love being around men. Independence doesn't necessarily mean contempt. Or I could say- women will always need men and men will always need women. If not for money or security or sex, simply because the sexes complement each other, and we are meant to be together, to work as a unit in life. So I'm not sure I agree with the last two reasons to explain antisocial behaviour- it must be something else.

[Rock]

@Sexter

I am 5'9, black and I consider myself good looking and white, Latina, Asian women hit on me all of the time. White women hit on me the most. I met a Canadian/Iranian chick on Saturday night and we are still talking now.

Some women take longer to warm up than others like this one Latina at this store I go to all of the time. She always looks gloomy and one day she started to talk to me and she was so nice. I wanted to ask for her number the next time she was at the store, but I never saw her again. Just because women look "cold" doesn't mean they are. I talked to some women that were "cold" in appearance but she warmed up pretty quickly!

Anyway, I wouldn't say "tall good looking white guys" get flirted on. I haven't asked for a girls number since 2001. I am not an asshole, I am not a thug...I am myself and I am friendly. I also have a sense of humor too so that helps.

Last thing: My dad is 5'6 and he has never had trouble with women. He has a great personality and has a great sense of humor. He doesn't have an ego, act like a thug, etc. He is short.

Do you really think because you are Filipino that women don't like you or your height? I try not to post on this forum, but I had to say something here.

Look, its pretty much you either got it or not in the States. Looks, build, and overall image are a lot more important than height. Just being black or Latino is a plus to your image. Being Asian is a minus. White is pretty neutral. But more importantly is your total look. If one girl finds you desirable at first glance, chances are a lot will. If you don't fit into one of the cooler looking images, you're probably invisible to most women. There are some exceptional women who can look beyond all this but its rare. Bella may be one of them. But then again, she has a Latin (Colombian) boyfriend who may not be tall, but is probably young and good-looking.

I have actually seen white girls who have yellow fever but its very rare. I remember meeting one at Chinese Uni in HK. She came over on exchange with a stated goal was to hook-up and marry a Chinese guy. Within a few months, she was engaged to one and he was very local, not at all westernized. Once in a long while I see white girls with local guys in Taiwan and generally, if the girl is hot, the guy looks very good too.

Lets be real. If you don't look right and are not able to compensate in some special way, you are going to be ignored by almost all women in the States for anything except platonic friendship.

[mattyman]

I wonder why so many people think along the lines of having money, looks and height as a pre-requisite to being attractive. In my opinion this is a highly linear way of looking at things. I think that it's possible to sabotage yourself with this kind of thinking. Why is it that so many guys (especially on the internet, especially from america) view attractiveness in terms of money, looks, height and all that load of jazz. What about being happy the way you are, genuine, true to yourself, being a generally good person and doing what's right for you as opposed to following the doctrine of what society considers to be attractive?

Why is it that so many guys today feel that they have to act 'cocky' to get the girl? A guy that's confident is happy being the way that he is, whether he's shy or outgoing. There is such a thing as cool, quite confidence. A guy that's confident doesn't feel that he needs to prove himself or try to act cocky just to gain the approval of others. Could it be that some are simply trying too hard?

I think that there is a major thinking error many men make (myself included I must admit), that one has to beef up, impress and put on a good show. I've found that girls find it better when you are just true to yourself, you don't try to prove anything, and you make her feel comfortable around you. You're just being friendly and thus more genuine. I personally think that this is what girls feel much more comfortable around. I think anyway that guys should be thinking more in terms of making girls feel at ease, and getting them to trust them as opposed to worrying about how they're coming accross.
So many guys these days seem to develop these cocky, artificial personalities, even here in the UK. The worst of which can be seen on a friday or saturday night. I think that they're under the impression that they're somehow 'not good enough' and that they need to prove themselves otherwise. That's understandable, since there is so much terrible, terrible, TERRIBLE advice out there with re to meeting women that actively promotes that kind of thinking.

Having said all that, I think that 90% of the problem is due to lack of social openess, that fact that hitting on girls is now 'innappropriate'. I can say that the biggest barrier for me to meeting women has been lack of access to them; i.e. not knowing the right people, pubs and clubs being the only socially acceptable places to meet them in in public. They are f***ing horrid environments to meet new people in anyway. When I do get access to nice girls, I usually have no problem.

However, the notion that one has to have money, looks, height and bla, blah, blah is I think, a largely american thing. It's all part of the rat race mentality. I just hope it doesn't pollute the whole of Europe, and the world for that matter.

A 22 year old blonde hair attractive thin woman probably has a shitload of options


Not from experience and I pretty much fit the above description.

These girls don't necessarily have decent men going after them. They just usually attract men with massive egos who want a trophy on their arm. If you are a good man who has a lot to offer, always go for it. You'll be a refreshing change from the posers.

What a breath of fresh air. If only more people would think along similar lines. So there are plenty of decent girls out there that only get approached by cocky posers who deep down actually DO want a decent, genuine guy, yet rarely get approached by those types of guys. It's reassuring to know that not being cocky can be a good advantage and I can see why. This is a very positive way of looking at things.

[Sexter]

Last thing: My dad is 5'6 and he has never had trouble with women. He has a great personality and has a great sense of humor. He doesn't have an ego, act like a thug, etc. He is short.

Do you really think because you are Filipino that women don't like you or your height? I try not to post on this forum, but I had to say something here.

that's because "so and so" (5 foot 6 guy never had trouble dating women) doesn't mean a vast majority of shorter guys don't have trouble dating women.

Sure, there are special exceptions out there but the fact is, exceptions don't prove a majority. Majority Proves the rule, not the exception.

Look around you, you see a couple holding hands, notice the guy is also as attractive (no homo). Maybe he has a quality in him that got him the girl (met through social circle, has a shit load of money, or has a good personality). From my experience, the guys who date beautiful women are either good looking or have something else going for them outside of height/looks. ($$$, fame, power, etc)

IT also depends on how beautiful the woman is. You will rarely see a 9 or a 10(who's white 5 foot 10, skinny, young, etc) date a shorter least attractive male minority(asian). I RARELY SEE THIS.

You might claim it's a "LIMITING BELIEF" but it's not, i get my reference points from EXPERIENCE.... Us asians are at a disadvantage. Look at the dating sites, asian males are probably the least preferred males out of any race(especially white women). Hell, i've approached 5 thousand women in my life, and i got blown out a bunch of times.

[Sexter]

My boyfriend is about 5ft 8, if I'm being generous, which is almost my height, and he isn't white. My sister has a Chinese boyfriend. My other sister is married to a man who is about 5ft 8 or less.

what's your point and what context bella ruth??

1. you live in the UK, you don't live in america.

2. did those "non-asian men" meet your sisters from a cold approach or through a mutual friend/club/organization? If it's through a mutual friend, then it's 50x easier than meeting them at a cold approach

Women in america (especially the beautiful 9s and 10s) have Plenty of options. They get hit on all the time, outside walking, or on facebook, and in their social circle. I'm not saying it's "impossible" to date an attractive white woman in america, but I really have to approach enough women to have somewhat of a success. Also, most 9s and 10s in america are already "taken" or doesn't see her as her type. The only way to have a chance(if your asian) with a beautiful white woman, is if you

1. met through a mutual friend(who claims your a cool guy)
2. she sees you as her type(usually, asian men are least desirable groups of men(look online!)
3. she values you enough to like you (money, power, fame, etc)

Women might be independent of men now but it doesn't mean they don't love or want men. Very few women in Europe (which are all Western countries, feminised) are dependent on men nowadays yet they still want a man in their life and love being around men. Independence doesn't necessarily mean contempt. Or I could say- women will always need men and men will always need women.

of course not! that wasn't my point. My point was, you seriously need to work harder to get a desirable woman here in america. You just don't need $$, but you also need to have a good personality and luck (hopefully she sees you as her type and single).

The stigma in the USA is that cold approach and Picking up women is negative. If you come from a cold approach perspective, it's A LOT HARDER. why not just go abroad and meet women in russia/philippiens? It's 50x easier....

The sense of entitlement of Women in america is ridiculous.

[BellaRuth]

what's your point and what context bella ruth??

1. you live in the UK, you don't live in america.

Well I keep getting told we are the same on here- 'Anglo countries' as one entity. I can't keep up.

Notice the reason I began posting in this topic and the first post I quoted.

2. did those "non-asian men" meet your sisters from a cold approach or through a mutual friend/club/organization? If it's through a mutual friend, then it's 50x easier than meeting them at a cold approach

In pubs (bars), not sure of the particular dynamics.

My point was, you seriously need to work harder to get a desirable woman here in america. You just don't need $$, but you also need to have a good personality and luck (hopefully she sees you as her type and single).

The stigma in the USA is that cold approach and Picking up women is negative. If you come from a cold approach perspective, it's A LOT HARDER. why not just go abroad and meet women in russia/philippiens? It's 50x easier....

The sense of entitlement of Women in america is ridiculous.

Ok. The thing is, if this is about America alone, I can't comment, as I've never even been. It sounds tough there.

But when it is about 'Anglo countries' then I can comment and it gets confusing as the countries are actually different... which is a good point. If you're talking about America, it's usually best to talk about America, not presume everywhere in the West might as well be extra States (I know you didn't do this yourself).

If things are that difficult for you there, do a Winston and jump ship! I'm not sure if you're planning to/are having trouble doing so, but it sounds like it will do you the world of good.

[Sexter]

Well I keep getting told we are the same on here- 'Anglo countries' as one entity. I can't keep up.

so you make a point that your sister's dated

1. outside their race
2. from a cold approach perspective (pubs/bars)

now, you have to weigh in other factors in context

1. That's because there's an exception doesn't prove the rule, majority proves the rule. That's because you see your sister's dating outside of their race or an asian guy, doesn't necessarily make it easier "IN GENERAL" for us asian guys to date white women. Exceptions don't prove the rule, Majority does.

2. comparing UK the USA as "western country" and claiming it as "the same" is only have truth. USA is a whole different country and we value things differently and have different social conditioning. Comparing social life and dating to UK/USA is simply over simplying the problem

3. If your statement is correct, how come I rarely see asian male/white female couples VS asian female/white male couples in the USA? How come I Rarely see an average looking asian guy date an attractivve white female? (99% of the time when I see an attractive white female dating a guy, the guy is either tall/white/ave looking but has lots of money/etc. I RARELY SEE an attractive white female date an average looking asian guy. RARE, and even if i do find it, exceptions don't prove the rule. The guy probably has lots of $$, met her through a mutual friend, or worked REALLY HARD to get at her.

bella, your theory claiming that it's possible to date beautiful white female if your asian, is POSSIBLE. I've seen it, but it's very rare . I can approach 5,000 white females, taht doesn't mean i will f**k/date any of them. The woman still has to see me as her type and see me as dating material(in which white females usually reject me if I make my intentions known).

If things are that difficult for you there, do a Winston and jump ship! I'm not sure if you're planning to/are having trouble doing so, but it sounds like it will do you the world of good.

about your anglo/western theory. Not all countries are the same, so stop claiiming that UK is like USA, it's not! it's different.

The only way to know where i'm coming from(and where winston is coming from) is to be an asian male, living in america and hitting on attractive white female. GOOD LUCK!! b/c it's very rare and very difficult to date a beautiful white female coming from a PUA/cold approach perspective.

I do agree with you on one thing, take winston's advice and go abroad. Try out new things!

[BellaRuth]

2. comparing UK the USA as "western country" and claiming it as "the same" is only have truth. USA is a whole different country and we value things differently and have different social conditioning. Comparing social life and dating to UK/USA is simply over simplying the problem

about your anglo/western theory. Not all countries are the same, so stop claiiming that UK is like USA, it's not! it's different.

We actually agree here, by the way. I say the above so much on here I sound like a broken record.

On reading that you said this, I had to double-take a little because I couldn't believe someone was saying this to me instead of the other way round.

The only reason I entered this thread was because someone lumped all the 'Anglo' countries into one (as is common on this forum). My thoughts on Asian men dating white women/PUA is rubbish was secondary to this. I do think you have a chance of getting a white girlfriend but I realise that I can't really tell you for sure. I was just putting my thoughts in for whatever they were worth.

But yes. America is a whole country of its own.

[Repatriate]

The only reason I entered this thread was because someone lumped all the 'Anglo' countries into one (as is common on this forum).

I wouldn't lump all anglo countries into one group but there are lots of shared similarities. I find the prejudices and stereotypes to be roughly the same across the board just different degrees of severity. If I were to rank the levels of tolerance amongst anglo majority nations i'd say Canada is the most tolerant and probably Australia the least. I'm not sure where the U.k. and the U.S. actually rank. Despite its problems the U.S. does have a lot of minorities in top political positions.