Keep Coming Up With More Reasons to Move.

[zacb]

Now I am a libertarian, and I am actually quite liberal in my political beliefs on social policy (legalize polygamy, lower the age of consent, and legalize prostitution). Pot should be legal, drugs at least decriminalized, marriage a private matter, abortion a state issue, our civil liberties protected, etc. . But personally I am mixed. I have very personally conservative beliefs (yes I am for prostitution if someone is going through a hard time) and some times watch things that are questionable, but I try to be personally responsible, and have a strong ethic. Having said that, I must admit that even with my liberal politics (libertarian), the country's morals concern me. I have chatted with various people, and if what I hear is any indication of the future, I am worried. Where is the freaking self restraint? I think that is the issue. It is not liberalism or conservatism. Without restraint, we are screwed either way.

Having said that, my original reason for heading abroad was the economic decline. But then I found out about the women (although I had it in the back of my head that if American dating never worked out, I was going to Japan), then the speculative opportunities, then the cost savings, the better standards of living, and now I will add conservative lifestyle to the mix. Here in America, if you were home educated, grew up in a Christian home (still has some influence over you, Christian, Deist, Atheist, or otherwise), and have decent values, you are scorned. Add to that you are a nice guy (pacifist, libertarian, etc.), you are double screwed. But this culture is scaring me. I don't even consider myself conservative per se, but the more I see, the more conservative I look, even with my liberal beliefs.

[fschmidt]

The libertarian solution to morality is religion. Religion is the only way to enforce morality without legal sanction.

Other countries offer some advantages. The women are certainly friendlier and some behavior may be more conservative. But without a sound religion, you will not find morality.

[zacb]

I agree. And I think many libertarians miss that.

[Halwick]

Now I am a libertarian, and I am actually quite liberal in my political beliefs on social policy (legalize polygamy, lower the age of consent, and legalize p4p). Pot should be legal, drugs at least decriminalized, marriage a private matter, abortion a state issue, our civil liberties protected, etc. . But personally I am mixed. I have very personally conservative beliefs (yes I am for p4p if someone is going through a hard time) and some times watch things that are questionable, but I try to be personally responsible, and have a strong ethic. Having said that, I must admit that even with my liberal politics (libertarian), the country's morals concern me. I have chatted with various people, and if what I hear is any indication of the future, I am worried. Where is the freaking self restraint? I think that is the issue. It is not liberalism or conservatism. Without restraint, we are screwed either way.

Having said that, my original reason for heading abroad was the economic decline. But then I found out about the women (although I had it in the back of my head that if American dating never worked out, I was going to Japan), then the speculative opportunities, then the cost savings, the better standards of living, and now I will add conservative lifestyle to the mix. Here in America, if you were home educated, grew up in a Christian home (still has some influence over you, Christian, Deist, Atheist, or otherwise), and have decent values, you are scorned. Add to that you are a nice guy (pacifist, libertarian, etc.), you are double screwed. But this culture is scaring me. I don't even consider myself conservative per se, but the more I see, the more conservative I look, even with my liberal beliefs.

You cite good compelling reasons to go abroad (and I can respect those reasons), especially if there is nothing in the U.S. that benefits you. One should go to and live in country that fits your lifestyle, political and moral beliefs.
But let me ask you something: Do you intend to renounce your U.S. citizenship?

[zacb]

Eventually yes. There are still some reasons to hold US citizenship (domestic commerce). Once I get some foreign assets, and family either dies off, or have nothing in common, then yes, I would strongly consider it.

[zboy1]

The libertarian solution to morality is religion. Religion is the only way to enforce morality without legal sanction.

Other countries offer some advantages. The women are certainly friendlier and some behavior may be more conservative. But without a sound religion, you will not find morality.

Exactly! Religion is the guiding spiritual and moral force for humanity. Without it, society becomes an anarchy--without no morals and values.

As a Libertarian, I realize the importance of religion, and how it impacts the life of everyday people. Although, like Zac, I'm pretty liberal in regards to the legalization of various illicit activities, I understand the need for a guiding force to regulate people's behavior in a rational society...

[tre]

We Libertarians are the Liberty Party. Liberals are not as they are for taking your money if you have it. Liberals want the government involved in your life. They don't want you to have the freedom to choose in MANY instances. They are not really fans of Religion and they want to force religion to adopt their corrupt ideas. Libertarians are for personal liberty and personal responsibility. While we might have slightly more in common with the Conservatives, we don't like war and we don't like the Police State. Conservatives have no respect for people who believe differently than they do (not of fan of any religion besides Christianity).

NEITHER side is for REALLY cutting spending and neither side is against the War on Drugs or legalized prostitution. Libertarians might not ALL be religious, but they believe in your freedom to believe and practice religion as you wish. It's really the only party that does. In short, the Libertarian is the common sense party...

With freedom comes the ability to choose what you will do with your life and how you will believe. Some people will make good choices and some will not. I'd prefer freedom over force....no contest.

Unfortunately, the Elites do all they can go brush away the Libertarian Party. It is clear that any liberty minded candidate for President will never be allowed to win. They have become too powerful and have control of everything. That is why the USA will never again be a free country...

My reason for wanting to leave is due to the ridiculous politics causing the destruction of this country. I'm tired of watching it day by day....on it's way into the shitter. I need a break from it...many years away from it. While it is true that most countries I'd go to are also not free, at least I'd have a break from watching MY country's destruction. The stress of it is killing me...literally.

[Halwick]

We Libertarians are the Liberty Party. Liberals are not as they are for taking your money if you have it. Liberals want the government involved in your life. They don't want you to have the freedom to choose in MANY instances. They are not really fans of Religion and they want to force religion to adopt their corrupt ideas. Libertarians are for personal liberty and personal responsibility. While we might have slightly more in common with the Conservatives, we don't like war and we don't like the Police State. Conservatives have no respect for people who believe differently than they do (not of fan of any religion besides Christianity).

NEITHER side is for REALLY cutting spending and neither side is against the War on Drugs or legalized p4p. Libertarians might not ALL be religious, but they believe in your freedom to believe and practice religion as you wish. It's really the only party that does. In short, the Libertarian is the common sense party...

With freedom comes the ability to choose what you will do with your life and how you will believe. Some people will make good choices and some will not. I'd prefer freedom over force....no contest.

Unfortunately, the Elites do all they can go brush away the Libertarian Party. It is clear that any liberty minded candidate for President will never be allowed to win. They have become too powerful and have control of everything. That is why the USA will never again be a free country...

My reason for wanting to leave is due to the ridiculous politics causing the destruction of this country. I'm tired of watching it day by day....on it's way into the shitter. I need a break from it...many years away from it. While it is true that most countries I'd go to are also not free, at least I'd have a break from watching MY country's destruction. The stress of it is killing me...literally.

Very interesting thoughts. So...WHERE will you go and WHAT countries abroad fits the Libertarian model?

[zboy1]

We Libertarians are the Liberty Party. Liberals are not as they are for taking your money if you have it. Liberals want the government involved in your life. They don't want you to have the freedom to choose in MANY instances. They are not really fans of Religion and they want to force religion to adopt their corrupt ideas. Libertarians are for personal liberty and personal responsibility. While we might have slightly more in common with the Conservatives, we don't like war and we don't like the Police State. Conservatives have no respect for people who believe differently than they do (not of fan of any religion besides Christianity).

NEITHER side is for REALLY cutting spending and neither side is against the War on Drugs or legalized p4p. Libertarians might not ALL be religious, but they believe in your freedom to believe and practice religion as you wish. It's really the only party that does. In short, the Libertarian is the common sense party...

With freedom comes the ability to choose what you will do with your life and how you will believe. Some people will make good choices and some will not. I'd prefer freedom over force....no contest.

Unfortunately, the Elites do all they can go brush away the Libertarian Party. It is clear that any liberty minded candidate for President will never be allowed to win. They have become too powerful and have control of everything. That is why the USA will never again be a free country...

My reason for wanting to leave is due to the ridiculous politics causing the destruction of this country. I'm tired of watching it day by day....on it's way into the shitter. I need a break from it...many years away from it. While it is true that most countries I'd go to are also not free, at least I'd have a break from watching MY country's destruction. The stress of it is killing me...literally.

Very interesting thoughts. So...WHERE will you go and WHAT countries abroad fits the Libertarian model?

You can Google "Galt's Gulch" in Chile. Also, many Libertarians are moving to Uruguay as well. Hong Kong follows an economic libertarian model, but obviously not politically (due to China). Switzerland could be considered somewhat 'libertarian' as well. ...

There is no pure 'libertarian' nation to speak of, unfortunately. A couple of years back, I read that some wealthy entrepreneurs were planning on building floating 'libertarian' cities in the oceans, but I don't know what's come of it, lately. Last I heard, there were no concrete plans to do so. ...

[tre]

We Libertarians are the Liberty Party. Liberals are not as they are for taking your money if you have it. Liberals want the government involved in your life. They don't want you to have the freedom to choose in MANY instances. They are not really fans of Religion and they want to force religion to adopt their corrupt ideas. Libertarians are for personal liberty and personal responsibility. While we might have slightly more in common with the Conservatives, we don't like war and we don't like the Police State. Conservatives have no respect for people who believe differently than they do (not of fan of any religion besides Christianity).

NEITHER side is for REALLY cutting spending and neither side is against the War on Drugs or legalized p4p. Libertarians might not ALL be religious, but they believe in your freedom to believe and practice religion as you wish. It's really the only party that does. In short, the Libertarian is the common sense party...

With freedom comes the ability to choose what you will do with your life and how you will believe. Some people will make good choices and some will not. I'd prefer freedom over force....no contest.

Unfortunately, the Elites do all they can go brush away the Libertarian Party. It is clear that any liberty minded candidate for President will never be allowed to win. They have become too powerful and have control of everything. That is why the USA will never again be a free country...

My reason for wanting to leave is due to the ridiculous politics causing the destruction of this country. I'm tired of watching it day by day....on it's way into the shitter. I need a break from it...many years away from it. While it is true that most countries I'd go to are also not free, at least I'd have a break from watching MY country's destruction. The stress of it is killing me...literally.

Very interesting thoughts. So...WHERE will you go and WHAT countries abroad fits the Libertarian model?

The founders of this country could definitely be considered Libertarians. They truly fought for freedom, unlike the warmongering the USA is involved in today. Unfortunately there is NO country abroad that fits the Libertarian model. Government, in general, likes power and thus, hates liberty. The USA had liberty for a few years before government took it away due to the ignorance of the people. I doubt we will ever see liberty again...anywhere in the world. The best we can do is go where we can put up with life in general. For me, that means going abroad. However, I'd come back if there was a collapse simply for the reason of protecting my family...

[magnum]

I was home schooled in a Christian home and I'm a nice guy, I know what your saying all too well.

Escaping the usa is the only answer, when the "christians" women treat you badly and the non-christian women in other countries are more moral...what kind of twisted game is that?

Though my ex backfired in my face, she gave me more then any "christian" woman ever did.

I personally believe the bible and in jesus, and it pains me to say...I would make the selfish choice of a non-saved woman over a "christian" woman, seems like even if you find a attractive young christian woman who's serious about it she's taken, because most the time she went for the first nice guy she found and she isn't superficial, so in a way...the dating pool kills it self off rather fast.

Causes much frustration, and lets be honest, the church is full of fat morons, literally, they preach with fire in regards to homosexuals, drugs, sex, but you'll surly burn in hell if you mention the fast food and gluttony in church, Christianity's favorite sin, a fat woman regardless of race or religion is the same to me, another human being who I have no interest seeking a wife.

[zacb]

We Libertarians are the Liberty Party. Liberals are not as they are for taking your money if you have it. Liberals want the government involved in your life. They don't want you to have the freedom to choose in MANY instances. They are not really fans of Religion and they want to force religion to adopt their corrupt ideas. Libertarians are for personal liberty and personal responsibility. While we might have slightly more in common with the Conservatives, we don't like war and we don't like the Police State. Conservatives have no respect for people who believe differently than they do (not of fan of any religion besides Christianity).

NEITHER side is for REALLY cutting spending and neither side is against the War on Drugs or legalized p4p. Libertarians might not ALL be religious, but they believe in your freedom to believe and practice religion as you wish. It's really the only party that does. In short, the Libertarian is the common sense party...

With freedom comes the ability to choose what you will do with your life and how you will believe. Some people will make good choices and some will not. I'd prefer freedom over force....no contest.

Unfortunately, the Elites do all they can go brush away the Libertarian Party. It is clear that any liberty minded candidate for President will never be allowed to win. They have become too powerful and have control of everything. That is why the USA will never again be a free country...

My reason for wanting to leave is due to the ridiculous politics causing the destruction of this country. I'm tired of watching it day by day....on it's way into the shitter. I need a break from it...many years away from it. While it is true that most countries I'd go to are also not free, at least I'd have a break from watching MY country's destruction. The stress of it is killing me...literally.

Yeah gotcha. My initial thing was our finances, then our freedoms, then women, then cost of living, and now I am realizing the morality of it (or lack thereof).

[zacb]

We Libertarians are the Liberty Party. Liberals are not as they are for taking your money if you have it. Liberals want the government involved in your life. They don't want you to have the freedom to choose in MANY instances. They are not really fans of Religion and they want to force religion to adopt their corrupt ideas. Libertarians are for personal liberty and personal responsibility. While we might have slightly more in common with the Conservatives, we don't like war and we don't like the Police State. Conservatives have no respect for people who believe differently than they do (not of fan of any religion besides Christianity).

NEITHER side is for REALLY cutting spending and neither side is against the War on Drugs or legalized p4p. Libertarians might not ALL be religious, but they believe in your freedom to believe and practice religion as you wish. It's really the only party that does. In short, the Libertarian is the common sense party...

With freedom comes the ability to choose what you will do with your life and how you will believe. Some people will make good choices and some will not. I'd prefer freedom over force....no contest.

Unfortunately, the Elites do all they can go brush away the Libertarian Party. It is clear that any liberty minded candidate for President will never be allowed to win. They have become too powerful and have control of everything. That is why the USA will never again be a free country...

My reason for wanting to leave is due to the ridiculous politics causing the destruction of this country. I'm tired of watching it day by day....on it's way into the shitter. I need a break from it...many years away from it. While it is true that most countries I'd go to are also not free, at least I'd have a break from watching MY country's destruction. The stress of it is killing me...literally.

Very interesting thoughts. So...WHERE will you go and WHAT countries abroad fits the Libertarian model?

The founders of this country could definitely be considered Libertarians. They truly fought for freedom, unlike the warmongering the USA is involved in today. Unfortunately there is NO country abroad that fits the Libertarian model. Government, in general, likes power and thus, hates liberty. The USA had liberty for a few years before government took it away due to the ignorance of the people. I doubt we will ever see liberty again...anywhere in the world. The best we can do is go where we can put up with life in general. For me, that means going abroad. However, I'd come back if there was a collapse simply for the reason of protecting my family...

I would argue more Classical Liberal (which would allow for some limited welfare), but on the whole, yeah, they would be libertarian Republicans and Democrats.

[zacb]

I was home schooled in a Christian home and I'm a nice guy, I know what your saying all too well.

Escaping the usa is the only answer, when the "christians" women treat you badly and the non-christian women in other countries are more moral...what kind of twisted game is that?

Though my ex backfired in my face, she gave me more then any "christian" woman ever did.

I personally believe the bible and in jesus, and it pains me to say...I would make the selfish choice of a non-saved woman over a "christian" woman, seems like even if you find a attractive young christian woman who's serious about it she's taken, because most the time she went for the first nice guy she found and she isn't superficial, so in a way...the dating pool kills it self off rather fast.

Causes much frustration, and lets be honest, the church is full of fat morons, literally, they preach with fire in regards to homosexuals, drugs, sex, but you'll surly burn in hell if you mention the fast food and gluttony in church, Christianity's favorite sin, a fat woman regardless of race or religion is the same to me, another human being who I have no interest seeking a wife.

I gotcha. I feel the same way. It is interesting that if you are a homo (which is wrong), you are cast out, but if you re a pregnant woman (out of wedlock) every thing is A okay. God never said which sexual sin was worse, both are abominations. And they talk about deadbeat dads, what about lazy women? IDK anymore, I have contemplated converting to Deism, or at least looking into quakerism. The American church seems like BS, and this is from a Christian!

[tre]

We Libertarians are the Liberty Party. Liberals are not as they are for taking your money if you have it. Liberals want the government involved in your life. They don't want you to have the freedom to choose in MANY instances. They are not really fans of Religion and they want to force religion to adopt their corrupt ideas. Libertarians are for personal liberty and personal responsibility. While we might have slightly more in common with the Conservatives, we don't like war and we don't like the Police State. Conservatives have no respect for people who believe differently than they do (not of fan of any religion besides Christianity).

NEITHER side is for REALLY cutting spending and neither side is against the War on Drugs or legalized p4p. Libertarians might not ALL be religious, but they believe in your freedom to believe and practice religion as you wish. It's really the only party that does. In short, the Libertarian is the common sense party...

With freedom comes the ability to choose what you will do with your life and how you will believe. Some people will make good choices and some will not. I'd prefer freedom over force....no contest.

Unfortunately, the Elites do all they can go brush away the Libertarian Party. It is clear that any liberty minded candidate for President will never be allowed to win. They have become too powerful and have control of everything. That is why the USA will never again be a free country...

My reason for wanting to leave is due to the ridiculous politics causing the destruction of this country. I'm tired of watching it day by day....on it's way into the shitter. I need a break from it...many years away from it. While it is true that most countries I'd go to are also not free, at least I'd have a break from watching MY country's destruction. The stress of it is killing me...literally.

Very interesting thoughts. So...WHERE will you go and WHAT countries abroad fits the Libertarian model?

The founders of this country could definitely be considered Libertarians. They truly fought for freedom, unlike the warmongering the USA is involved in today. Unfortunately there is NO country abroad that fits the Libertarian model. Government, in general, likes power and thus, hates liberty. The USA had liberty for a few years before government took it away due to the ignorance of the people. I doubt we will ever see liberty again...anywhere in the world. The best we can do is go where we can put up with life in general. For me, that means going abroad. However, I'd come back if there was a collapse simply for the reason of protecting my family...

I would argue more Classical Liberal (which would allow for some limited welfare), but on the whole, yeah, they would be libertarian Republicans and Democrats.

Don't mistake Government welfare for charity as they are VASTLY different. Government doesn't make money in and of itself and anything they give to others has to be robbed from someone else. That is what Government Welfare is. Charity, on the other hand, is given to someone by someone willingly...no government involvement. The people back then were more charitable than they are today, which makes perfect sense. People back then were just happy to have FREEDOM and the ability to do what they feel is best for themselves and their families. They all worked hard and there was obviously more of a sense of community. Today, the government FORCES us to give them money so that they can give it to someone else (very little of which goes to welfare for those that need it). Those that are forced are not going to feel very charitable at that point and will feel that they have given enough already. In truth, direct charity is much better than government welfare as we all know that government likes to squander money. Not much goes for anything that benefits any of us. The givers are taken out of the equation and have no choice as to where their money goes...not rewarding at all. The rewards of doing good are destroyed by the lack of true freedom. People in this type of society lose "feeling" for their fellow man. It doesn't surprise me that selfishness and moral decay are some of the results...