is it really easier to get laid abroad?

[MrPeabody]

Guys may want to consider Mexico and see if it is a fit for them. First, it is right next store to America and you don't have far to go. Next, getting a visa is almost trivial compared to any other country. You can get a six month visa at the border for about $30 and try before you buy. Next, the culture is really not that strange to an American. When I went to the Netherlands, I went through a few weeks of culture shock and it took me about two months to adjust to their strange way of doing things. When I moved to Mexico, there was zero culture shock and I immediately figured things out. But, I also can speak intermediate Spanish. Next, Latin Americans tend to be friendly and tolerant, and it is pretty hard to f**k up or break some cultural rule unless you are a total asshole. Asians aren't that simple, and in places like Thailand or Japan, you are going to get more surprises, may come across people who consider you an inferior person, and you are more likely to accidently offend people without knowing why. Younger men who are stuck in the US for the foreseeable future can learn Spanish and spend weekends in places like Monterrey or Guadalajara. Although, I still think that Colombian women are friendlier and can be easier to meet in certain areas. If you live in a country all the time, you can find opportunities to meet women. I have talked to women in the taco shops, gym, my hairdresser offered to hook me up, malls, fairs, etc. and where I live is a vacation town with about a dozen clubs so there are always women walking around. The best thing is to live in the country to get opportunities, but if you are stuck in the US it may be the best you can do. P.S. - I have seen young American guys here walking around with their Mexican girlfriends.

[Rock]

I am close to Peabody's age and my experiences are similar. When you get to be our age, if you have been paying attention, you can learn to be wise.
You realize, that just like you were yourself at that age, most young guys, (Including the young guys on the forum, do not have a clue about women.
Not a f//kin clue. ) You know that because you see how the young guys are acting much like you did at that same age.

The old bull does with finesse and little effort, what the young bull labors furiously and usually in vain, to accomplish. If as Peabody says, you actually understand women, it gives you a HUGE edge, whatever your intentions. With that, comes the experience and confidence of a silver fox. You are able to
act without hesitation, because you are wise enough to choose your battles, and when you choose, it is almost certain to be one that you will win.

You want an edge fellows? Understand, especially from a girls point of view, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN DATING AND MATING.
"Getting some" or all the "virtues" of a girl who puts out right away is not at all seen like it is in the USA by girls there.
The concept of recreational dating and screwing is not a universal concept guys. Yet most here act as if it is, or at least should be. It is not.
Knowing this and how it plays out in girls minds, will give you a HUGE edge in many places.

One way or the other, in many places, a girl who has been banged by 20 guys and 6 others she cant remember, is not considered good LTR
or marriage material. That is just the way it is. Girls in that arena are not eager to join the ranks of the ho club.

>>>I have observed, with years of experience in more than 60 countries, that girls generally become less capable of bonding with one man when they have copulated with many. That is just the way it is. Winston in fact refers to this as well. Understanding this will influence your choices and actions
significantly. You really do have to understand the water you are fishing in. Paying for sex might often be the more honorable choice if
you are just looking for sex. A street ho? No, perhaps a kind of sugar daddy deal, but at least you are not deceiving a girl into bed by implying that
marriage is coming. Genuine men give each other respect in those areas. You choice may not be mine, but it's not my life either.

>>> In many places, especially the Philippines, a girl will often willingly JUMP into bed so long as she sees it as sealing the deal on a LTR and/or marriage.
She is MATING, not dating. She sees herself as bonded to you at that point, and in a way, you have some "ownership" of what she has given you.
My wife certainly saw things in this light when she moved in with me almost 2 years ago. (We were recently married).

If you simply "need some". a man may do what he has to do to get it. AND YES fellows, it IS easier to get laid overseas if that is what you need.
It is easier to get sex in any place where the golden p***y association does not rule. Other places, a girl is just a girl, not some goddess.

Most men will not take the time to really build the knowledge they need to succeed, but the knowledge is out there.
So I guess I have settled down. yes, I have given up the "many" now that I am married to one. I guess that might happen when
you find one that brings you more meaning than the "many". In fact, I have far more "comfort" in this life than most men who
see it as being tied down and somehow limited. In my case my Filipina wife is 24 vs my 50. Being a bitch has never occurred to her.
She assumes American women must be idiots. I leave it at that. She really focuses on taking good care of me in every way.
She will go back to school this coming year to finish her college efforts- she is nearly done with an engineering degree.

I say these things to illustrate what I am saying. My life has become quite low stress in many ways. I really do not want to have to think about women too much. In most cases, they are simply too much work. If you are in the USA or Western Europe they are just about like suicide...but more agonizing.

Well good luck on all this gentlemen..its in the wee hours...and I am due for some sleep.....

Outwest

1. My experience tends to be in line with what you say about girls who've copulated with too many. The only possible exceptions I've seen are prostitutes in a foreign country who service foreigner men but bond with a local man. Some of them seem to distinguish work (sleeping with foreigners) and love (a mate from the same race and background).

2. Is there a secret society of old experienced men who understand young women to the point of being out to compete young guys for their affections? Because wherever I've traveled in the world so far, I just haven't seen it. And I'm usually very observant and love to watch people all the time. In many foreign countries, I often see very unattractive younger guys (usually local) with sexy young stunners. But I almost never see old men with these types of girls. Most of the old men/young women pairings I see are in places like PI, Cambodia, parts of Africa, and Thailand and involve generally shorter, rough looking, and very unattractive younger girls, not the classy or sexy looking ones. There's usually a P4P/sugar daddy element involved too unless the two have already married.

3. In some other parts of the world, 10, 15, sometimes even 20 year age gaps can sometimes be managed. But when you push beyond that with 18-24 year olds girls, I think it becomes extremely difficult and rare for regular guys at least. Even with guys who stand-out, its not so common. Consider the famous male celebrities you know - those who have money, power, and/or wide public recognition. Of the minority who marry much younger women, consider that the age gaps are still usually within 15-20 years. Sure there's the odd exceptions - Hugh Hefner, Woody Allen, etc. But if you were to randomly select a list of 200 married male celebrities, I bet you would find that some 80% had wives within 10-15 years of their age and another 15% 15-20 years. Less than 5% would be married to women 20 or more years their junior. If you believe that's just an American thing, repeat the same exercise in other countries. If you find a country where it's common for much older local celebrity men to marry women who are 25 or more years their junior, I'll be very surprised.

4. For those of you who understand women well, consider her point of view. When a 20 year old girl interacts with a 50 year old man, what do you think goes though her mind? Even if her right (emotional brain) has a very good feeling about you, don't you think she's going to associate it with a positive fatherly/grandfatherly type of role? Meanwhile, in her left brain, don't you figure the age gap is so extreme that it probably won't even occur to her to even remotely consider you in a romantic context. Of course, it may be part of a young woman's nature to flirt with all males, even father figures. But that doesn't always mean she really wants something to happen between you two.

5. I remember a friend who was involved with an older guy. She was around 26 and the guy was a very young looking early 40s. Now she had some feeling for him and all. But the age gap really disturbed her logical left brain and she just couldn't go through with marrying the guy so she broke-up with him. Perhaps its a bit easier (but still very difficult) for a much older guy to have a medium term relation with a very young girl during which she learns from him and grows-up a bit. But at some stage (perhaps a few weeks to 1-2 years), I believe its likely she will wake up and crave someone closer to her own age.

6. If you are an older western guy who must have an early 20s girl, I reckon the PI might be one of the easiest places to find one, a very exceptional place on this planet in that regard. Thing is, if you want a very attractive one, its kind of like looking for a needle in a haystack. I mean, even in the classiest urban malls there, I have to view many 100s of girls to find a 6-7 (face and body wise) and several 1,000s to see an 8 on a lucky day. In contrast, better Asian countries have 6-7s are all over the place and 8s are easy to find too. I imagine Ukraine or Russia is even better in this regard. Secondly, once you do find your stunner, she's going to be so stand-out in her environment that you will really have to really do some song-and-dance to win her over, especially at your age. In a better country, a 6-7 will feel a lot more ordinary.

7. I know its been argued that historically, girls have paired with much older men. I'm not a history expert. But most of what I've read suggests it was just the very top dogs (kings, emperors, warlords, etc) who could pull this off, basically, the top 1 out 10,000 or better class of men. I don't think ordinary guys got to roll like that in most societies in any given segment of time.

[djfourmoney]

It depends where -

what country and what area in that coutry you go to.....

you have to know the culture of the country you go to & what areas to go to.....

Is that REALLY true? How many cultures are different than Americas???

To my knowledge South American culture is slightly different, more Catholic for one thing. English isn't widely spoken so they have their own Pop Culture that isn't really shared with Southern Europe expect for sharing a language in Spain. Its class structure and economic structure is similar to ours because they do have a problem with racism which in some cases is more class based but in countries like Cuba and Colombia it was race based more so than say Brazil which is the only other South American country with high rates of African Slaves.

More similar than not wouldn't you agree? Educated and Middle Class South Americans are likely to be able to speak basic English because either their families have enough money to travel, learned English in school, have international business relations or apart of the diplomatic core. Most travelers to these countries for various reasons don't have access to these women.

SE Asia I'm not quite as familiar because frankly its never been known to be super-friendly to Black people and I don't care for it that much. Yes some Black Men have War Brides that are Korean or whatever, but that doesn't mean its a wide acceptance. From what I have seen middle class to lower middle class Japanese and Chinese women MAY be interested in Black Men but even those numbers are fairly small.

Having said all that... If you have a tied tongue trying to talk to women it doesn't matter if you know the language or not, your going to struggle. If your short, your going to struggle. If your really tall, your going to struggle. Less so than the short guy, but unless you make it a habit try and talk to women over 5'9, your going to struggle.

Sort of off topic but I with many really tall women (over 6'0) wonder why tall guys go after shorter women? That puzzles me as well, stupid if you ask me. Its likely that tall men don't see tall women as feminine, which might explain why White Men like Asian women so much is because they tend to be petite, thin and short which is by definition is feminine.

Anyway, I don't see any difference and I doubt I would see much difference in Asia or South America. I think some guys just want to be able to show up and women fall to their feet. That shit is not going to happen. Some effort will have to be made on your part. Even with our so-called equalized culture, women STILL want guys to make the first move and have something to say when they do it. All this Brad Pitt, 50 Cent jive is just an excuse for men to use for not being successful as they thought they would.

If your old,balding, fat, short, you're going to have to offset those things. The easiest would be shave your head or get hair implants if your bald or balding. If your fat, loose weight. Can't fix short, but date Latinas or Asian women who tend to be short might be your best option.

For men without many of those shortcomings, maybe the only shortcoming happening between your ears, you're going to have work on that tied tongue you suffer from.

Given a chance I've never found it challenging to get laid.

[djfourmoney]

Guys may want to consider Mexico and see if it is a fit for them. First, it is right next store to America and you don't have far to go. Next, getting a visa is almost trivial compared to any other country. You can get a six month visa at the border for about $30 and try before you buy. Next, the culture is really not that strange to an American. When I went to the Netherlands, I went through a few weeks of culture shock and it took me about two months to adjust to their strange way of doing things. When I moved to Mexico, there was zero culture shock and I immediately figured things out. But, I also can speak intermediate Spanish. Next, Latin Americans tend to be friendly and tolerant, and it is pretty hard to f**k up or break some cultural rule unless you are a total asshole. Asians aren't that simple, and in places like Thailand or Japan, you are going to get more surprises, may come across people who consider you an inferior person, and you are more likely to accidently offend people without knowing why. Younger men who are stuck in the US for the foreseeable future can learn Spanish and spend weekends in places like Monterrey or Guadalajara. Although, I still think that Colombian women are friendlier and can be easier to meet in certain areas. If you live in a country all the time, you can find opportunities to meet women. I have talked to women in the taco shops, gym, my hairdresser offered to hook me up, malls, fairs, etc. and where I live is a vacation town with about a dozen clubs so there are always women walking around. The best thing is to live in the country to get opportunities, but if you are stuck in the US it may be the best you can do. P.S. - I have seen young American guys here walking around with their Mexican girlfriends.

Peabody, Sherman here. What did you have to adjust too in The Netherlands? I know generally in Europe they have no idea what customer service or they sort of have an idea. I thought about relocating to The Netherlands and I find some traditions a bit odd, but not really that much out of step with mainstream Western Culture. I spent some time there in '07 and found it "fun" I guess you could say. I didn't get to do what I wanted to do really, but that's my fault. One of the reasons I consider it a good place for relocation, is the high levels of the population that understand and speak near fluent English, excellent public schools and I like the fact I can bring a car over from America which is much cheaper to buy than there and just add some side markers and a rear amber fog light.

As I said my main problem isn't fear its lack of aggression or being risk adverse, I had more than a few chances to chat up local women and even some tourist.

Love to hear your feedback.

[NorthAmericanguy]

IMO going down to TJ is like a phase in your life, when you want to chip in for gas and drive down with your friends on the weekend for fun. I did that back in HS but stopped by the time that I entered college. I think if someone did it year after year, they're kinda stuck in that phase and not moving forward with their life.

In US it's easy for younger people to meet, but harder for older folks. When I was in college, I'd go down and hang out with friends at UCSD and join their beach BBQ's. It was also fairly easy to chat up girls at Sea World and the Zoo back then. But at my age today (40), it'd be much harder. I'd have to join Asian American professional associations to meet girls in their late 20's, and do brunch at Pacifica Del Mar on Camino Del Mar. If things go really well, maybe dinner at Mister A's on 5th Ave.

Yea, that's true... When I was going to school at MT SAC and was on the sports team, there were so many girls I had access to; I had many girls from different classes, female sports teams, or part time work that wanted to date me. I had so much of a social life that often times I wanted to live on my own so I could get away from everybody.

Now that I have transitioned into the business world in my early 30s, basically my life consist of going to work, and going home because American adults don't socialize other then when they are drunk at a sleazy bar obsessing over a sports team. Access to young girls (18-25), or girls around my age has dropped to almost next to nothing because they are all on a collage campus or at work.

It did not happen right away, but it was more of a gradual reduction of male friends and female attention as people graduated, married, or moved away. And once you move out to the suburbs like me, it's the final nail in the coffin that a social life, or meeting young girls in a natural setting is OVER.



Lucky for me I'm self employed and my work consist of traveling, so I DO get to meet people. The problem is when you try and break out of the business mode and really try and get to know a woman since this is about meeting girls; I find that most American women past 28 are cold, unfriendly, and unwelcoming to any kind of advances.

[NorthAmericanguy]

i hate paying directly for sex. The women only likes the money, NOT YOU. paying for sex is a big blow to your confidence(especially if you can't get sex without paying for it in general).

I have my own beliefs about p4p. pay for sex only, if you enjoy the sex and want some fun in your life... don't do it if you can't get women in general, why? because it's a blow to your confidence. You are poisoning your confidence every time you pay for sex(ONLY IF YOU DON'T HAVE TRUE ABUNDANCE)

I lived in san diego and I know a lot of engineers and military guys here. They struggle with women and have to rely to go to tijuana mexico(prostitutes) just to get laid. ALL of the guys i know who did this consistently got depressed. They know that they can't attract women with their REAL personalies, only their money.

I know young guys that have only ever paid for sex. The reason they are resorting to escorts is because of how sexually open and liberated the societies we live in are. There's a notion that all this sex is going on, yet many can't get in on it. This, mixed with the raging hormones you experience in your youth, is enough to push you down that road. The thing is that it's psychologically damaging, especially for those with little to no experience. You get sexual relief for a period of time, but it ingrains a belief in you that if you had to resort to paying for it, no girl would want to be with you. And a lot of escorts are uncomfortable with their job, but some guys will think this is purely down to them.

As I have recommended before, I think a younger man should do his best to develop game.

When you say develop game, do you mean by going out, making an effort to develop your personality and learning through trial and error? Or are you talking about reading books that teach you to wear multi-colored clothes and approach women using a chat-up line that begins with a joke? The only joke is the books and the guys who wrote them, from my experience. Or do you have any actually decent material to recommend?

It is in my belief, that guys who only sleep with prostitutes become depressed over time because men genuinely are the ones who truly crave companionship/commitment from the opposite sex. Some men hope that the prostitute will come to like them, love them, and screw them for free, but it never happens sincerely; we either leave when the deed is done, she strings us along to secure a future sale, or we pay for more of her time. These men just can't deal with the brutal honesty of the transaction and should therefore find girlfriends even the girl is fat/ugly.

Also, in American culture, it's engrained into men that "real" men seduce women, and "real" men have girlfriends/wives as if somehow those guys are better (or better off) then the rest when we all know that's not always true. Regardless, it only adds more stress to the mental/emotional situation when everybody keeps asking why you're single and such as if something is wrong with you.

As far as psychological damage, I believe it's more of a psychological damage when you're with a woman for 5+ years and you find out she never loved or cared for you since day one, and that all you were was a meal ticket. It happens all the time and those kind of guys have been known to kill themselves and others on the way out. Now how many whorehunters have you known to kill themselves?

Lastly, I would never tell a potential long term mate that I was with pros in the past. Not that I'm a dishonest person, but I would be unfairly judged as person when the REAL reason why I had to use pros was not my fault in the first place. The problem is with SOCIETY, and a poor selection of women which has caused guys like me who WOULD like a girlfriend, and are capable of having a girlfriend to say F**** it and get sex through an alternative means.

[djfourmoney]

1. My experience tends to be in line with what you say about girls who've copulated with too many. The only possible exceptions I've seen are prostitutes in a foreign country who service foreigner men but bond with a local man. Some of them seem to distinguish work (sleeping with foreigners) and love (a mate from the same race and background).

One of the women I had sex with worked in P4P and she had a boyfriend who didn't mind. If most men can get beyond the dynamics of random sex with strangers and look at it as a business transaction, then it really shouldn't bother you. As I said, this is not the dark ages, its hundreds of years after the enlightenment. Should we really cling to old traditions if they don't fit our lifestyle?

2. Is there a secret society of old experienced men who understand young women to the point of being out to compete young guys for their affections? Because wherever I've traveled in the world so far, I just haven't seen it. And I'm usually very observant and love to watch people all the time. In many foreign countries, I often see very unattractive younger guys (usually local) with sexy young stunners. But I almost never see old men with these types of girls. Most of the old men/young women pairings I see are in places like PI, Cambodia, parts of Africa, and Thailand and involve generally shorter, rough looking, and very unattractive younger girls, not the classy or sexy looking ones. There's usually a P4P/sugar daddy element involved too unless the two have already married.

Attractiveness is always subjective and I usually see average looking men with slightly better than average looking women. Women ultimately will pick personality and character over looks. They don't like guys that spend more time in the mirror than they do and they don't like men that other women are really attracted too, especially if they don't feel confident enough to defend their boyfriend or husband being stolen by other women. This is why women tend even if they say otherwise have looks about 3rd or 4th on the list of important features. At least those that don't think like teenagers...

3. In some other parts of the world, 10, 15, sometimes even 20 year age gaps can sometimes be managed. But when you push beyond that with 18-24 year olds girls, I think it becomes extremely difficult and rare for regular guys at least. Even with guys who stand-out, its not so common. Consider the famous male celebrities you know - those who have money, power, and/or wide public recognition. Of the minority who marry much younger women, consider that the age gaps are still usually within 15-20 years. Sure there's the odd exceptions - Hugh Hefner, Woody Allen, etc. But if you were to randomly select a list of 200 married male celebrities, I bet you would find that some 80% had wives within 10-15 years of their age and another 15% 15-20 years. Less than 5% would be married to women 20 or more years their junior. If you believe that's just an American thing, repeat the same exercise in other countries. If you find a country where it's common for much older local celebrity men to marry women who are 25 or more years their junior, I'll be very surprised.

I agree and that's because some women haven't reached full maturity by age 21, even if life experiences have sped that up. This is especially a problem in Western Anglo Cultures, where some women never stop being teenagers into their 30's and make petty things most important. I agree that most celebrities, movers and shakers are married to much younger women, usually 10-15 years, sometimes 15-20 years. Among normal people the woman being a few years older isn't uncommon and it really depends. Some men shack up with older women because it offers them financial security that is often lacking in men with less a college education. Some men are also willing to shack up with older women especially if they have trouble dating and the woman comes off as desperate for attention. Women past their prime with children find it extremely difficult to find suitable men, so often times they will settle for younger men even if they work crappy jobs. I've seen it before, several times.

4. For those of you who understand women well, consider her point of view. When a 20 year old girl interacts with a 50 year old man, what do you think goes though her mind? Even if her right (emotional brain) has a very good feeling about you, don't you think she's going to associate it with a positive fatherly/grandfatherly type of role? Meanwhile, in her left brain, don't you figure the age gap is so extreme that it probably won't even occur to her to even remotely consider you in a romantic context. Of course, it may be part of a young woman's nature to flirt with all males, even father figures. But that doesn't always mean she really wants something to happen between you two.

Its hard to gauge somebody from short conversions but you're mostly correct that most women that pick older men around 20-25 year age difference are looking for a fatherly figure, not a father figure. Not many women want to f**k their father... But they may want a man to teach them about life in general if they found that lacking at home.

Not to say this the case but I think Mark and Anna's relationship is along these lines. He's had a full life before meeting Anna so his life experiences to her are an asset. It doesn't hurt that's he's still young at heart, doesn't look too old for his age and generally a fun person to be around. She also knows that financial security isn't an issue and there other factors as well.

I think Anna has mentioned that it was just her mother and herself growing up, you see what I mean? She was 19 when they met. So it does happen; Wasn't Priscilla Presley 16-17 when she met Elvis??

5. I remember a friend who was involved with an older guy. She was around 26 and the guy was a very young looking early 40s. Now she had some feeling for him and all. But the age gap really disturbed her logical left brain and she just couldn't go through with marrying the guy so she broke-up with him. Perhaps its a bit easier (but still very difficult) for a much older guy to have a medium term relation with a very young girl during which she learns from him and grows-up a bit. But at some stage (perhaps a few weeks to 1-2 years), I believe its likely she will wake up and crave someone closer to her own age.

I think this depends on several factors. If she wants to have children, she may take in account all the information she has available. His family medical history, his overall advanced age and how he treats her overall. These are all factors and will point to reasons why younger women after a few months or years opt to look for men closer to their age to marry. But all WOMEN experiment... They all have dated somebody at least ten years older than them to see if dating older men was what many report it to be. When it IS all its cracked up to be, many women married these men. When its not and its usually the man's fault, his own lack of maturity, maybe has commitment-phobia or a player that's not ready to turn in his player card yet (usually rich men). Single Mothers almost always opt for older men because most of these men are ready to be home on a regular basis and not out running the streets or hanging out constantly with friends.

6. If you are an older western guy who must have an early 20s girl, I reckon the PI might be one of the easiest places to find one, a very exceptional place on this planet in that regard. Thing is, if you want a very attractive one, its kind of like looking for a needle in a haystack. I mean, even in the classiest urban malls there, I have to view many 100s of girls to find a 6-7 (face and body wise) and several 1,000s to see an 8 on a lucky day. In contrast, better Asian countries have 6-7s are all over the place and 8s are easy to find too. I imagine Ukraine or Russia is even better in this regard. Secondly, once you do find your stunner, she's going to be so stand-out in her environment that you will really have to really do some song-and-dance to win her over, especially at your age. In a better country, a 6-7 will feel a lot more ordinary.

I'm in agreement with you here. I think PI's continued poor economic status and remoteness helps men in this regard. Older men offer financial security unlike younger men. Especially in countries where well paying jobs are hard to find, as it seem to be the problem in PI. Though I am not impressed by most PI women. Maybe my point of view is skewed by being attracted to White Women firstly, Latinas, second and Blacks/Asians a distant tie for 3rd. PI tend to be darker skin, short and like a majority of Asians not very tall. But unlike most Asian countries because of the presents of the United States going back to the early 1900's until a couple of decades ago, means a higher rate of EuroAsian race mixing happening. IMHO this is where you can maybe find a few "Jems" in PI but they are in the extreme minority and likely only available (if she's under 30) to men around her age, maybe 10-15 years at the most.

I would ONLY recommend PI if you don't care how women look generally as long as they are women and attractive to you. Or you have Yellow Fever....

[/quote]

7. I know its been argued that historically, girls have paired with much older men. I'm not a history expert. But most of what I've read suggests it was just the very top dogs (kings, emperors, warlords, etc) who could pull this off, basically, the top 1 out 10,000 or better class of men. I don't think ordinary guys got to roll like that in most societies in any given segment of time.

I'm not a expert on history but if you look at 70 years ago to today, what has changed in Western Culture is that woman have gain more rights and equality in the workplace. Meaning the reasons they marry and when they get married have changed, even in the last 20 years. Gen X has several issues, being products of divorce, being on the edge of gaining social, political and economic power all have influence. 2016 MAY produce the first candidate Gen X candidate for President for example.

Because more women are finish college than men, women are more likely to marry men from the same social-economic level. That means if your HS educated or went to a trade school; Your chances of finding these women and them finding you appealing beyond physical traits aren't very good. They use this against you in dating. I just read something - http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/3088165/n ... ot-others/ and I confirms more than a few things about what's going on from a men's point of view.

Something struck me funny though -

There is a possible drawback to dating a man aged forty or older. Many men at that age begin to look at women and marriage as a poor financial investment. There’s no other way of putting it. When you ask them why they’re not married, they tell you they spent most of their lives building a nest egg, and they’re not about to share it with some “babe.� In our interviews, they often used such derogatory terms when speaking of women. They talked as though a woman’s only interest in a man is what she can get out of him. The irony is that many of the men who spoke this way really didn’t have all that much anyway. Today, many of the women whom these men think are after their money earn far more than they do. If a man talks of marriage as a financial game in which women are out to make their fortunes, don’t just walk away-run! Such men are hardly ever going to be the marrying kind.

Some of you bitter-men need to get a grip, most women are not out to get you financially and you don't have much to loose anyway. I'm not really talking to men that have been divorced as they could have been taken to the cleaners

Anyway in Western Culture this included Western Europe you may like younger women but depending how badly you want to get married, you may want to look at divorced women, some of whom have married Mr Perfect only to be disappointed and will likely invest somebody slightly less the perfect. Same for woman that marry successful men only to find out they work 50-60 hours a week.

Getting laid has no effect anything I just said. It depend on what context your talking about. If your talking strictly social situations keep age differences to no more than 10-15 years if your talking strictly Non-Pros in bar/nightclub environments and boy you better be able to say more than you name and I hope your not fat and aren't shorter than about 5'8.

[djfourmoney]

IMO going down to TJ is like a phase in your life, when you want to chip in for gas and drive down with your friends on the weekend for fun. I did that back in HS but stopped by the time that I entered college. I think if someone did it year after year, they're kinda stuck in that phase and not moving forward with their life.

In US it's easy for younger people to meet, but harder for older folks. When I was in college, I'd go down and hang out with friends at UCSD and join their beach BBQ's. It was also fairly easy to chat up girls at Sea World and the Zoo back then. But at my age today (40), it'd be much harder. I'd have to join Asian American professional associations to meet girls in their late 20's, and do brunch at Pacifica Del Mar on Camino Del Mar. If things go really well, maybe dinner at Mister A's on 5th Ave.

Yea, that's true... When I was going to school at MT SAC and was on the sports team, there were so many girls I had access to; I had many girls from different classes, female sports teams, or part time work that wanted to date me. I had so much of a social life that often times I wanted to live on my own so I could get away from everybody.

Now that I have transitioned into the business world in my early 30s, basically my life consist of going to work, and going home because American adults don't socialize other then when they are drunk at a sleazy bar obsessing over a sports team. Access to young girls (18-25), or girls around my age has dropped to almost next to nothing because they are all on a collage campus or at work.

It did not happen right away, but it was more of a gradual reduction of male friends and female attention as people graduated, married, or moved away. And once you move out to the suburbs like me, it's the final nail in the coffin that a social life, or meeting young girls in a natural setting is OVER.



Lucky for me I'm self employed and my work consist of traveling, so I DO get to meet people. The problem is when you try and break out of the business mode and really try and get to know a woman since this is about meeting girls; I find that most American women past 28 are cold, unfriendly, and unwelcoming to any kind of advances.

I understand what you mean and honestly your are in prime age if your in your late 20's to be looking for a wife??? If that's what you want. You also have to improve your odds with American women and you really need to try to date several women a month. I'd say min. two a week, anything less is running in place. You said "most" not all, so that means you might be fishing in the wrong pond.

[davewe]

For those who have not seen it much, I believe it exists much more than you think, even in the U.S. Several guys on this forum have already weighed in about their much younger wives/gfs. I am far from a player or PUA but even in the U.S. my last 2 gfs were 20 years younger than me. In each case, they had already had older bfs before and thought nothing of it.

Why is it less visible? For one thing, in this culture older people are less visible in general. For another, older men are often more discrete and find it less necessary to parade their gfs around in public. And for another the girls are also discrete. My younger gf did not introduce me to the parents, relatives or BFFs, and I did not introduce her to my kids. We knew it was not leading to marriage, so why invoke any parental or societal shaming. Today we are best friends and sometime FWBs and thats how we like it.

A generation or 2 ago this dynamic was more open in the West. My grandfather divorced my grandmother at 50 and ended up marrying a woman 20+ years younger, who was beautiful, elegant (almost regal) and towered over him (he was 5'4"). In the 20 + years they were married before his death I never heard anyone question it. In that generation it was obvious why a younger beautiful woman wanted my grandfather: he was dynamic, powerful, built a business from nothing, and while not wealthy, had a nice lifestyle. In that generation few women worked, and providing a good life was the responsibilty of the man. I am confident my grandfather had lots of options!

My cousin revered him and wanted to create a life just like his. Today my cousin is 60 or 61 and married to a woman 30 years younger. No one questions it. My cousin is dynamic, powerful and successful. All she asked of him was that he give her a baby and she would take care of it. They have a 2 year old.

I guess I got my grandfathers genetics as well!! My motto is: I never date within my generation.

One reason that it seems a bit rare is that many people want a relationship with someone of their own time and place. Personally I do not need to share with anyone my age when I first saw the Beatles. I am happy to hear about my younger gfs culture and find the difference compelling. But thats me. But most of my friends are happy to pursue women closer to their age. Its their preference but I think my preference has its advantages also.

[NorthAmericanguy]

My motto is: I never date within my generation.

One reason that it seems a bit rare is that many people want a relationship with someone of their own time and place. Personally I do not need to share with anyone my age when I first saw the Beatles. I am happy to hear about my younger gfs culture and find the difference compelling. But thats me. But most of my friends are happy to pursue women closer to their age. Its their preference but I think my preference has its advantages also.

I agree. When I was younger I wanted to date women my own age (but not older), but now that I'm a little older (32) and have accumulated more wisdom, I no longer wish to date women my own age and definitely don't want anything older then me.

For me it's all about dealing with a woman who hopefully has a clean slate and a empty mind because I find that women over 25 change drastically (and not in a good way) due to pressures from society and prior bad relationships with other men.

Women over 25 are no longer friendly, they believe their S*** does not stink, and they ruthlessly categorize men and their worth based on what kind of job you have and or social status. For me 28-35 is just a "red zone" age wise to deal with women in my opinion.

[NorthAmericanguy]

IMO going down to TJ is like a phase in your life, when you want to chip in for gas and drive down with your friends on the weekend for fun. I did that back in HS but stopped by the time that I entered college. I think if someone did it year after year, they're kinda stuck in that phase and not moving forward with their life.

In US it's easy for younger people to meet, but harder for older folks. When I was in college, I'd go down and hang out with friends at UCSD and join their beach BBQ's. It was also fairly easy to chat up girls at Sea World and the Zoo back then. But at my age today (40), it'd be much harder. I'd have to join Asian American professional associations to meet girls in their late 20's, and do brunch at Pacifica Del Mar on Camino Del Mar. If things go really well, maybe dinner at Mister A's on 5th Ave.

Yea, that's true... When I was going to school at MT SAC and was on the sports team, there were so many girls I had access to; I had many girls from different classes, female sports teams, or part time work that wanted to date me. I had so much of a social life that often times I wanted to live on my own so I could get away from everybody.

Now that I have transitioned into the business world in my early 30s, basically my life consist of going to work, and going home because American adults don't socialize other then when they are drunk at a sleazy bar obsessing over a sports team. Access to young girls (18-25), or girls around my age has dropped to almost next to nothing because they are all on a collage campus or at work.

It did not happen right away, but it was more of a gradual reduction of male friends and female attention as people graduated, married, or moved away. And once you move out to the suburbs like me, it's the final nail in the coffin that a social life, or meeting young girls in a natural setting is OVER.



Lucky for me I'm self employed and my work consist of traveling, so I DO get to meet people. The problem is when you try and break out of the business mode and really try and get to know a woman since this is about meeting girls; I find that most American women past 28 are cold, unfriendly, and unwelcoming to any kind of advances.

I understand what you mean and honestly your are in prime age if your in your late 20's to be looking for a wife??? If that's what you want. You also have to improve your odds with American women and you really need to try to date several women a month. I'd say min. two a week, anything less is running in place. You said "most" not all, so that means you might be fishing in the wrong pond.

Oh no, I'm NOT looking for a wife. lol

[MrPeabody]

Guys may want to consider Mexico and see if it is a fit for them. First, it is right next store to America and you don't have far to go. Next, getting a visa is almost trivial compared to any other country. You can get a six month visa at the border for about $30 and try before you buy. Next, the culture is really not that strange to an American. When I went to the Netherlands, I went through a few weeks of culture shock and it took me about two months to adjust to their strange way of doing things. When I moved to Mexico, there was zero culture shock and I immediately figured things out. But, I also can speak intermediate Spanish. Next, Latin Americans tend to be friendly and tolerant, and it is pretty hard to f**k up or break some cultural rule unless you are a total asshole. Asians aren't that simple, and in places like Thailand or Japan, you are going to get more surprises, may come across people who consider you an inferior person, and you are more likely to accidently offend people without knowing why. Younger men who are stuck in the US for the foreseeable future can learn Spanish and spend weekends in places like Monterrey or Guadalajara. Although, I still think that Colombian women are friendlier and can be easier to meet in certain areas. If you live in a country all the time, you can find opportunities to meet women. I have talked to women in the taco shops, gym, my hairdresser offered to hook me up, malls, fairs, etc. and where I live is a vacation town with about a dozen clubs so there are always women walking around. The best thing is to live in the country to get opportunities, but if you are stuck in the US it may be the best you can do. P.S. - I have seen young American guys here walking around with their Mexican girlfriends.

Peabody, Sherman here. What did you have to adjust too in The Netherlands? I know generally in Europe they have no idea what customer service or they sort of have an idea. I thought about relocating to The Netherlands and I find some traditions a bit odd, but not really that much out of step with mainstream Western Culture. I spent some time there in '07 and found it "fun" I guess you could say. I didn't get to do what I wanted to do really, but that's my fault. One of the reasons I consider it a good place for relocation, is the high levels of the population that understand and speak near fluent English, excellent public schools and I like the fact I can bring a car over from America which is much cheaper to buy than there and just add some side markers and a rear amber fog light.

As I said my main problem isn't fear its lack of aggression or being risk adverse, I had more than a few chances to chat up local women and even some tourist.

Love to hear your feedback.

There are things I liked about the Netherlands like the bike paths. But the customer service can really get bad and you can get into these Kafkaesque situations where a problem that would take 5 minutes to solve in the US can end up taking days of painful effort in the Netherlands. I am involved in this now. I still have a Bank Account at ABN/AMRO and changed my address. I gave them a street address of (made up for illustration) "250 San Diego Blvd." and they send it as "San Diego Blvd. 250". It got bounced by the US post office and it took me 3 months to get the letter and another letter I never received. I call them up and I have to go through this complex procedure to give them the new address (and I already went through this 4 months ago). I talked to them yesterday and they said they were going to correct it and have not heard back from them. When you talk to Dutch service people, sometimes you start to wonder if they have anything upstairs and if the lights are on. And, furthermore, even though they service International clients, the computer software only formats for Dutch addresses, so if you have a US address you have to shoe horn it into their format. How can they get away with this? Now, in contrast, when things go wrong in Mexico, like with my cable company, I always feel like I am talking to a normal human being, and the problem usually gets fixed right away. Now, why can Mexico, a third world country handle services better than the Netherlands, a first world country? I really don't get it. They still think like a small country and maybe socialism has screwed the place up.

[MrPeabody]

For those who have not seen it much, I believe it exists much more than you think, even in the U.S. Several guys on this forum have already weighed in about their much younger wives/gfs. I am far from a player or PUA but even in the U.S. my last 2 gfs were 20 years younger than me. In each case, they had already had older bfs before and thought nothing of it.

Why is it less visible? For one thing, in this culture older people are less visible in general. For another, older men are often more discrete and find it less necessary to parade their gfs around in public. And for another the girls are also discrete. My younger gf did not introduce me to the parents, relatives or BFFs, and I did not introduce her to my kids. We knew it was not leading to marriage, so why invoke any parental or societal shaming. Today we are best friends and sometime FWBs and thats how we like it.

A generation or 2 ago this dynamic was more open in the West. My grandfather divorced my grandmother at 50 and ended up marrying a woman 20+ years younger, who was beautiful, elegant (almost regal) and towered over him (he was 5'4"). In the 20 + years they were married before his death I never heard anyone question it. In that generation it was obvious why a younger beautiful woman wanted my grandfather: he was dynamic, powerful, built a business from nothing, and while not wealthy, had a nice lifestyle. In that generation few women worked, and providing a good life was the responsibilty of the man. I am confident my grandfather had lots of options!

My cousin revered him and wanted to create a life just like his. Today my cousin is 60 or 61 and married to a woman 30 years younger. No one questions it. My cousin is dynamic, powerful and successful. All she asked of him was that he give her a baby and she would take care of it. They have a 2 year old.

I guess I got my grandfathers genetics as well!! My motto is: I never date within my generation.

One reason that it seems a bit rare is that many people want a relationship with someone of their own time and place. Personally I do not need to share with anyone my age when I first saw the Beatles. I am happy to hear about my younger gfs culture and find the difference compelling. But thats me. But most of my friends are happy to pursue women closer to their age. Its their preference but I think my preference has its advantages also.

Your background sounds similar to mine. After my grandmother died, my grandfather went back to Italy and married a much younger woman. My Colombian ex was 20 years younger than me, and in Colombia that is not considered a significant difference. She also had bfs my age when she lived in Colombia. There are women who want older men. You just have to find them. Also, the women tend to by slightly more rebellious, intelligent, and able to think outside the box. Many times they grew up with a distant or unavailable father. When I was in Ukraine, I met an American man from West Virginia in his 50s who would go to the public library or post office and pick up young college women even though he couldn't speak a word of Russian or Ukrainian. Some guys just know how to do it.

[Rock]

For those who have not seen it much, I believe it exists much more than you think, even in the U.S. Several guys on this forum have already weighed in about their much younger wives/gfs. I am far from a player or PUA but even in the U.S. my last 2 gfs were 20 years younger than me. In each case, they had already had older bfs before and thought nothing of it.

Why is it less visible? For one thing, in this culture older people are less visible in general. For another, older men are often more discrete and find it less necessary to parade their gfs around in public. And for another the girls are also discrete. My younger gf did not introduce me to the parents, relatives or BFFs, and I did not introduce her to my kids. We knew it was not leading to marriage, so why invoke any parental or societal shaming. Today we are best friends and sometime FWBs and thats how we like it.

A generation or 2 ago this dynamic was more open in the West. My grandfather divorced my grandmother at 50 and ended up marrying a woman 20+ years younger, who was beautiful, elegant (almost regal) and towered over him (he was 5'4"). In the 20 + years they were married before his death I never heard anyone question it. In that generation it was obvious why a younger beautiful woman wanted my grandfather: he was dynamic, powerful, built a business from nothing, and while not wealthy, had a nice lifestyle. In that generation few women worked, and providing a good life was the responsibilty of the man. I am confident my grandfather had lots of options!

My cousin revered him and wanted to create a life just like his. Today my cousin is 60 or 61 and married to a woman 30 years younger. No one questions it. My cousin is dynamic, powerful and successful. All she asked of him was that he give her a baby and she would take care of it. They have a 2 year old.

I guess I got my grandfathers genetics as well!! My motto is: I never date within my generation.

One reason that it seems a bit rare is that many people want a relationship with someone of their own time and place. Personally I do not need to share with anyone my age when I first saw the Beatles. I am happy to hear about my younger gfs culture and find the difference compelling. But thats me. But most of my friends are happy to pursue women closer to their age. Its their preference but I think my preference has its advantages also.

1. Well more power to you then. I hope all deserving older guys keen to 'mate' with the 'creme of the crop' girls can pull-it-off.

2. A lot of older guys may claim they want women in their own age group. But in reality, I bet many if not most just don't feel qualified. So they make up a lot of BS context about not being able to relate with young women, yada yada. If you ever take one of em to a place with young and willing prostitutes such as Angeles City, don't be surprised if he instantly falls in love with a little brown prostitute with whom he shares absolutely nothing in common.

3. On the other hand, if you talk to very young women about dating an older guy, a fair percentage may express interest. But their definition of 'older' is usually late 20s or early 30s at most. If you suggest something more along the lines of middle age, 9 out of 10 times, she's going to feel like puking in her mouth, lol.

4. From what you say, it sounds like some girls in the US may be more tolerant of dating much older men than girls in a lot of countries. Perhaps developed NE Asia, where I draw some of my perspective, is more conservative and challenging in this regard. Majority of women here want guys near their own age. A minority can go 10-15 years higher and that's about it for most of these.

5. I suppose there are older guys who specialize in finding those rare young women who will give them the time of day in a romantic context. How rare do you think such women are in the States today - 1 out of 500? Worse? Better? Just curious.

[djfourmoney]

Guys may want to consider Mexico and see if it is a fit for them. First, it is right next store to America and you don't have far to go. Next, getting a visa is almost trivial compared to any other country. You can get a six month visa at the border for about $30 and try before you buy. Next, the culture is really not that strange to an American. When I went to the Netherlands, I went through a few weeks of culture shock and it took me about two months to adjust to their strange way of doing things. When I moved to Mexico, there was zero culture shock and I immediately figured things out. But, I also can speak intermediate Spanish. Next, Latin Americans tend to be friendly and tolerant, and it is pretty hard to f**k up or break some cultural rule unless you are a total asshole. Asians aren't that simple, and in places like Thailand or Japan, you are going to get more surprises, may come across people who consider you an inferior person, and you are more likely to accidently offend people without knowing why. Younger men who are stuck in the US for the foreseeable future can learn Spanish and spend weekends in places like Monterrey or Guadalajara. Although, I still think that Colombian women are friendlier and can be easier to meet in certain areas. If you live in a country all the time, you can find opportunities to meet women. I have talked to women in the taco shops, gym, my hairdresser offered to hook me up, malls, fairs, etc. and where I live is a vacation town with about a dozen clubs so there are always women walking around. The best thing is to live in the country to get opportunities, but if you are stuck in the US it may be the best you can do. P.S. - I have seen young American guys here walking around with their Mexican girlfriends.

Peabody, Sherman here. What did you have to adjust too in The Netherlands? I know generally in Europe they have no idea what customer service or they sort of have an idea. I thought about relocating to The Netherlands and I find some traditions a bit odd, but not really that much out of step with mainstream Western Culture. I spent some time there in '07 and found it "fun" I guess you could say. I didn't get to do what I wanted to do really, but that's my fault. One of the reasons I consider it a good place for relocation, is the high levels of the population that understand and speak near fluent English, excellent public schools and I like the fact I can bring a car over from America which is much cheaper to buy than there and just add some side markers and a rear amber fog light.

As I said my main problem isn't fear its lack of aggression or being risk adverse, I had more than a few chances to chat up local women and even some tourist.

Love to hear your feedback.

There are things I liked about the Netherlands like the bike paths. But the customer service can really get bad and you can get into these Kafkaesque situations where a problem that would take 5 minutes to solve in the US can end up taking days of painful effort in the Netherlands. I am involved in this now. I still have a Bank Account at ABN/AMRO and changed my address. I gave them a street address of (made up for illustration) "250 San Diego Blvd." and they send it as "San Diego Blvd. 250". It got bounced by the US post office and it took me 3 months to get the letter and another letter I never received. I call them up and I have to go through this complex procedure to give them the new address (and I already went through this 4 months ago). I talked to them yesterday and they said they were going to correct it and have not heard back from them. When you talk to Dutch service people, sometimes you start to wonder if they have anything upstairs and if the lights are on. And, furthermore, even though they service International clients, the computer software only formats for Dutch addresses, so if you have a US address you have to shoe horn it into their format. How can they get away with this? Now, in contrast, when things go wrong in Mexico, like with my cable company, I always feel like I am talking to a normal human being, and the problem usually gets fixed right away. Now, why can Mexico, a third world country handle services better than the Netherlands, a first world country? I really don't get it. They still think like a small country and maybe socialism has screwed the place up.

I totally understand what your saying and that sort of thing about if the lights are on is pervasive in Europe. As I said the concept of customer service but for some American institutions is basically lost on them. You'll have much better luck with Fed Ex, DHL (Deutch Post), Mc Donald's, Subway, etc and that's a shame.

The best thing to do in these instances is to get in contact with one of the many American expats living in Holland or any country you happen to be in. Chances are they have experienced what you have and can help you navigate it.

The positive about Holland is that you can become a resident easily and have rights to 99.9% of the services available to citizens. No need to go the last mile where they require you to learn Dutch for example. Learn dutch when a majority of the people in the major cities speak English? No thanks.