Child Free? What are peoples opinion

jsmith · Post by **jsmith** » April 8th, 2011, 1:01 pm

Found these articles.

this on one France and French women who have babies and their culture.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/12/world ... ml?_r=2&hp

then we have this article here that talks about why lots of american couples are not having babies.

http://www.details.com/culture-trends/c ... rentPage=1

Me personally i'm glad i'm awake now, because i think sub-consciously i have always known something was wrong with the dating scene here in the USA (i'm 28 now) but now that i have more information, i have a huge disgust for american women now. i always felt like i wasn't good enough (see my post in the intro forum)

viewtopic.php?t=10008

but i see now its the other way around.

But now that i know what i want to do. Telling a woman i don't want to have kids, will this be a problem? I don't hate children but raising children is expensive, i myself didn't enjoy my childhood and having babies wills top me form doing things that i want to do in my life. and i need space from my own family/relatives. making people into grandparents, and uncles will complicate things.

i'm actually apart of another forum called. http://www.thechildfreelife.com/

http://www.thechildfreelife.com/forum/v ... =4&t=11027

http://www.thechildfreelife.com/forum/v ... =4&t=10127

http://www.thechildfreelife.com/forum/v ... =4&t=10154

but what's the consensus here on kids.

Grunt · Post by **Grunt** » April 8th, 2011, 1:59 pm

Well, we all know feminism is the number one cause of population loss in Western nations. Add to that a stagnant economy and who can blame people for not having kids? It is simply too damn expensive. It isnt even a matter of selfishness, its a matter of starvation. As Fred Reed says, if your society is hell bent on destroying itself, you have no obligation to destroy yourself trying to propagate.

jsmith · Post by **jsmith** » April 8th, 2011, 2:11 pm

[quote="Grunt"]Well, we all know feminism is the number one cause of population loss in Western nations. Add to that a stagnant economy and who can blame people for not having kids? It is simply too damn expensive. It isnt even a matter of selfishness, its a matter of starvation. As Fred Reed says, if your society is hell bent on destroying itself, you have no obligation to destroy yourself trying to propagate.[/quote]

good points. thanks for input.

anyone else?

Truthville · Post by **Truthville** » April 8th, 2011, 2:59 pm

Hey Bhayes!

I used to want to have children, but the problem was always finding a suitable person to have children with.

The expense part is always a big thing, since I have always been self-supporting BUT not much more than that. This is by design, I might add.

In addition, I always wanted to be married first and then have children. It seemed the right way to do it BUT I've found that the women I dated didn't feel that way.

For most people, it seems to me, having children is no big deal. But to me it meant being responsible for another human being and therefore a BIG deal.

So UNLESS I find someone whom I want to have a child with, then no children for me. I have no fear about my "genes" dying off or any other such nonsense. I'll be dead, WTF do I care!

TruthVille

Post by **fschmidt** » April 8th, 2011, 6:25 pm

There is no right or wrong answer to this question, but there is a very predictable outcome. Those types of men who choose not to have kids will soon be extinct.

Think Different · Post by **Think Different** » April 8th, 2011, 6:39 pm

Just to add my two cents: yes, kids are expensive, but I have to say that my son is the greatest thing I've ever "accomplished" in this life. It's hard to describe, until you've had one. Jobs come and go, marriages come and go (unfortunately), but your children are your heritage and when they light up when they see you, it makes everything else in life really insignificant. As for paying for college: screw it. If this economic depression has taught me anything its that 8+ years at the university and multiple degrees can still leave you with long term unemployment. I only WISH I had a practical skill to use. University is not the end-all/be-all. Besides, children can get a great education and job training by joining the military. I know highly educated families that had upwards of 7 children, and they just don't worry about it. They let the future take care of itself. When I was at the university, the students that studied the hardest and didn't screw around were the ones working part time jobs and paying their own way through and not relying on their parents. The university/parental payment machine is a scam. Don't fall for it. They can also study overseas, where university is free or very cheap.

The_Hero_of_Men · Post by **The_Hero_of_Men** » April 8th, 2011, 6:41 pm

RedDog wrote:Just to add my two cents: yes, kids are expensive, but I have to say that my son is the greatest thing I've ever "accomplished" in this life. It's hard to describe, until you've had one. Jobs come and go, marriages come and go (unfortunately), but your children are your heritage and when they light up when they see you, it makes everything else in life really insignificant. As for paying for college: screw it. If this economic depression has taught me anything its that 8+ years at the university and multiple degrees can still leave you with long term unemployment. I only WISH I had a practical skill to use. University is not the end-all/be-all. Besides, children can get a great education and job training by joining the military. I know highly educated families that had upwards of 7 children, and they just don't worry about it. They let the future take care of itself. When I was at the university, the students that studied the hardest and didn't screw around were the ones working part time jobs and paying their own way through and not relying on their parents. The university/parental payment machine is a scam. Don't fall for it. They can also study overseas, where university is free or very cheap.

How are schools overseas "free" or "very cheap"? This sounds like another good idea! It is a thought I have entertained, but nothing moer.

Truthville · Post by **Truthville** » April 8th, 2011, 6:41 pm

Which is just fine with me fschmidt!

The notion that somehow a person's genes are so valuable that they have to be perpetuated is laughable! What makes the "any man" so valuable? What "types" of men are you talking about? What are the "types" of men that are so worth preserving? White men? Black men? Short men? Smart men? Rich men? Funny men? Christian men? Buddhist men?

Since human devation is so miniscule at the genetic level, why does it matter?

To have children solely to "perpetuate" one genes is really just human arrogance, bravado, and narcasism IMHO.

TruthVille

djfourmoney · Post by **djfourmoney** » April 8th, 2011, 7:07 pm

The_Hero_of_Winds wrote:
RedDog wrote:Just to add my two cents: yes, kids are expensive, but I have to say that my son is the greatest thing I've ever "accomplished" in this life. It's hard to describe, until you've had one. Jobs come and go, marriages come and go (unfortunately), but your children are your heritage and when they light up when they see you, it makes everything else in life really insignificant. As for paying for college: screw it. If this economic depression has taught me anything its that 8+ years at the university and multiple degrees can still leave you with long term unemployment. I only WISH I had a practical skill to use. University is not the end-all/be-all. Besides, children can get a great education and job training by joining the military. I know highly educated families that had upwards of 7 children, and they just don't worry about it. They let the future take care of itself. When I was at the university, the students that studied the hardest and didn't screw around were the ones working part time jobs and paying their own way through and not relying on their parents. The university/parental payment machine is a scam. Don't fall for it. They can also study overseas, where university is free or very cheap.
How are schools overseas "free" or "very cheap"? This sounds like another good idea! It is a thought I have entertained, but nothing moer.

More you mean and it comes out of your TAXES. Americans don't like Taxes because they get such a low return for what they spend. They like refunds more, where in Europe they exchange refunds for services like low cost or free education, health care, child care, LONG vacation time (3-4 weeks, no including holidays), etc, etc.

There are several International Schools throughout Europe, where your children can take in both cultures with both languages or more languages. Music and Languages expand the mind, critical thought and all that. What are they doing in America? Eliminating Art and Music in schools in the name of budgets....

I want to have children for several reasons, some are unexplainable. Its just a feeling and I fully understand Red Dog. Okay Truthville like there's no Naracasism in your blood. I don't see having children as arrogant either, having kids is your personal contribution to society at large. Who's to say your offspring won't improve humanity? You don't know that without having children.

Some of this falls on deaf ears. Whatever, if you don't want to have children I don't think you need to post on a hereto message board where 90% or more of the responses are going to be people that want to have children. Its not hard to find women that don't want to have children. You just better be as successful as these women tend to be so you can meet them. Otherwise you won't hang in the same social circles. You're not going to find many women in the Middle Class or Working Class that doesn't want to have children.

Those with more money have more access and fill up their time with so many other pursuits that children just get in the way of things. If that's how you feel go for it, but don't expect a chick that makes under 50K a year to agree with you and not want to have children, unlikely and just be a source of frustration for you as it seems you always find women that want to have children.

Start looking at women that make a ton of money and are workaholics.... They tend to not want to have children, gets in the way of career goals.

ErikHeaven · Post by **ErikHeaven** » April 8th, 2011, 7:15 pm

@Hero you can i still i believe become a doctor in Cuba for free. Nursing education can be had for free if you become a CNA for a year in a hospital or nursing home then work for them for about a year or two. You can become an RN totally free by working off your training at a hospital or nursing home. Back to the forum i love my 2 children even though i struggled most of my adult life and they love me and respect me back. So its worth it at least for me.

The_Hero_of_Men · Post by **The_Hero_of_Men** » April 8th, 2011, 7:43 pm

ErikHeaven wrote:@Hero you can i still i believe become a doctor in Cuba for free. Nursing education can be had for free if you become a CNA for a year in a hospital or nursing home then work for them for about a year or two. You can become an RN totally free by working off your training at a hospital or nursing home. Back to the forum i love my 2 children even though i struggled most of my adult life and they love me and respect me back. So its worth it at least for me.

To be honest, I want children, but not right now

Post by **Winston** » April 8th, 2011, 7:55 pm

This is a difficult question. Not everyone is cut out to be a parent. If you have a rich and full life without a child, then having one will only hamper your life and goals. Some people's lives are fulfilled by children. Some are not.

But then again, nature puts into us a desire to have children, and a fear of not passing on our genes, so that we will want to have them.

As for me, I often regret having a child because mine is a lot of trouble and extremely distracting with his constant annoying tantrums and narcissistic behaviors of demanding that everyone focus on him rather than their own affairs. It is very annoying beyond words.

But this is for now. Who knows what he will become in the future and whether I may like him more when he becomes something better?

Kids are not just expensive. They involve a lot of time, energy, frustration, and a total shift of priorities from your needs and goals, to caring for someone else who annoys you and demands to be the center of attention all the time.

My friend Rock told me the other day: "I've never understood how people can take care of a baby from 0 to 3 years of age that has to be watched every minute. I think I'd go crazy if I tried to do that."

I totally agree. I cannot understand that either.

Basically, I think if you have a rich full life then you don't need children. However, even so, mother nature will make you feel a sense of loss for not having children.

sushiman · Post by **sushiman** » April 9th, 2011, 1:05 am

I look at these American guys who are slaves to the kids and slaves to the wives and I wonder why. They get nothing in return, no respect, no sex, no dinner. I asked one guy, "nobody gives a shit about you, why don't you just leave and go have fun in shanghai?" But he was blocked by the society program, the guilt and all that from the constant badgering by his crazy wife: "Be a man, make us more money", yikes.

In the USA with an American woman I would say you gotta be crazy to get into that kid trap. The courts are there to enslave you as a GDP increasing machine by piling on child support and alimony and bla bla bla.

Anyhow I never went down that road. For some women no kids is a deal breaker, as I learned, but there are enough who get how great the no kid life is that it doesn't matter. Just understand that everyone is going to try to socially blackmail you into doing it, cause they did it.

My wife's parents were what no kids?! How can this be?! You just realize that is what they are programed to say, while you are actually thinking for yourself. Eventually they realized our plan is genius and secretly I think wish they had done it...but then my hot Korean wife would never have been born!

Kunold · Post by **Kunold** » April 9th, 2011, 1:55 am

because child-free/low birthrate their will be even fewer younger people and more older people, young women the world over will be even more in demand(put on a pedestal) and the competition fiercer since theirs so few of them, for all actions their come consequences

one of the reasons i believe Europe encouraged Muslim immigration was because of lack of working age people to work in their factories.

Also i don't really understand the reason some people cite being nonreligious as affecting their desire to have kids, do dogs and cats need religion to procreate? anyways part of the reason i suspect more intelligent life hasn't evolved on earth before was because of anti natalist attitudes that come with higher intelligence, this also makes no sense though since intelligence would indicate one would be able to appreciate/care about the future even if their gone (Example a Muslim Europe, Mexican America)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub-replacement_fertility

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2 ... obal_aging

http://seekingalpha.com/article/25620-i ... grows-rich

http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/ ... -economics

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/06/24/9 ... a-has.html

http://globalbrief.ca/blog/2010/01/12/s ... ing-tiger/

http://old.npf.org.tw/PUBLICATION/SS/09 ... 94-006.htm

http://www.ilo.org/asia/info/public/pr/ ... /index.htm

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/04/world ... 94069.html

http://www.spiegel.de/international/ger ... 85,00.html

https://news.ok.ubc.ca/2011/02/23/canad ... opulation/

Jackal · Post by **Jackal** » April 9th, 2011, 3:46 am

RedDog wrote:When I was at the university, the students that studied the hardest and didn't screw around were the ones working part time jobs and paying their own way through and not relying on their parents. The university/parental payment machine is a scam. Don't fall for it. They can also study overseas, where university is free or very cheap.

Expecting children to pay for all of their college costs is a very American idea. In Europe, even though university is usually cheaper, parents are expected to pay most of the cost of their children's education. It's just part of the culture. You can choose to do things differently, but then you will probably be seen as an asshole and a cheapskate by the locals and perhaps by your children.

I know a man who just bought an old apartment in Budapest for 7 million HUF which he's going to fix up, so his children can live there when they go to college in Budapest. I guess he figures that this will be cheaper than paying for his kid's rent throughout university.

Schools are more difficult here, so students have to spend most of their time studying and not wasting time juggling a million different things. Although some students do have part-time jobs and some work during the summer.

Students in Europe also often like to study closer to home, so they can come home more frequently. Families have much closer relationships here. It's very different from the "Okay, asshole, you're 18 now, so you're on your own!" American mentality where people don't care if they only see their kids once a year.

Education is very important in Europe. Degrees are needed here for just about everything.